Lions-Springbok combined XV

[Bullitt]

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.

 

[durbutter]

Jones.

 

[Bullitt]

Jones, even.

 

[MunsterMan]

Gerald Davies, has some temper, how did he arrange for the Southern Kings to break Murray's leg?

Beast won at least 9 points in the 1st test, and made a huge contribution to the series win, which is why I put him in there, I know he was against Vickery but that doesn't matter, he still made a vital contribution to the Series win.

 

[jim lewis]

What's a Scotch pack? Is it something you get at a wholesale butcher's shop? I do remember Murray playing in a Scottish pack if that helps.

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jim Lewis @ Jul 8 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

What's a Scotch pack? Is it something you get at a wholesale butcher's shop? I do remember Murray playing in a Scottish pack if that helps.[/b]

A very good Scottish pack at that. You guys munched us in the AI'S last year. The Lions losing Murray was one of the biggest blows to the Lions IMO.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

You're developing things in your own mind again. Get that PS3 thread out of your system, apparently it's clouding your judgement on everything else.

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

You're developing things in your own mind again. Get that PS3 thread out of your system, apparently it's clouding your judgement on everything else.
[/b][/quote]

:lol: As if I care about that. I am responding to your post of Beast being nothing special and how the Lions coped with him etc. Why get worked up just because I give my view on your opinion? That is what this forum is for and you are not the only one I dicuss views with(I don't single you out).

Take a chill pill relax.

 

[Jer Mac]

My combined XV:

1.Genkins: solid in the scum, excellent tackler and good in the loose
2u Plessis: can be an airhead but his throws are awesome and makes serious yards in broken play.
3:Jones: Apologies to the beast lovers but he is just not ready YET!! Jones is abetter all round player.
4:Botha:Man eats lead for breakfast dinner and supper, must be a desendant from russel crowe in gladiator
5:Matfield:Im picking him because of the platform in the lineout, is a better jumper than O'Connell
6:Brussow:As previously stated, he is Kryptonite in the breakdown, PLAGUE!
7:Williams:I love this guy..Footballing genius, although i should be picking Wallace for ball carrying!!
8:Heaslip:Spies just did nothing for me, even with all that potential:Heaslip got his hands dirty
9u Preez: Destroyed the lions in the 2nd test, close to best player in the game
10:Jones:solid all through and linked well with the midfield, great game management
11:Habanna:World class winger, some afterburner for the try in 2nd test!
12:Roberts:Cut South Africa to shreds all tour
13:O'Driscoll: the great man had a massive tour, world player of the year contender
14ieterson:His game has improved astronomically in 2yrs
15:Kearney:My player of the tournament, killed the boks kicking game:best FB in world rugby at the moment.

This is my combined 15 from the tour.
there is questionable decisions at 7 and 8. Williams is too good to be left off and Smith doesnt produce that kind of magic for me to pick him, i didnt see him link backs and forward although he is awesome at the tail of the lineout, while Wallaces ball carrying is magestic at times.. i am probably lacking a lethal ball carrier from the back row. Spies to me is abit of a showboat and needs to improve his all-round game to become the best no:8 in world rugby..he has the tools but for me Heaslip is a more honest player and isnt bad in broken play either as shown in the 3rd test.

 

[bristol-iain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 8 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

My combined XV:

1.Genkins: solid in the scum, excellent tackler and good in the loose
2u Plessis: can be an airhead but his throws are awesome and makes serious yards in broken play.
3:Jones: Apologies to the beast lovers but he is just not ready YET!! Jones is abetter all round player.
4:Botha:Man eats lead for breakfast dinner and supper, must be a desendant from russel crowe in gladiator
5:Matfield:Im picking him because of the platform in the lineout, is a better jumper than O'Connell
6:Brussow:As previously stated, he is Kryptonite in the breakdown, PLAGUE!
7:Williams:I love this guy..Footballing genius, although i should be picking Wallace for ball carrying!!
8:Heaslip:Spies just did nothing for me, even with all that potential:Heaslip got his hands dirty
9u Preez: Destroyed the lions in the 2nd test, close to best player in the game
10:Jones:solid all through and linked well with the midfield, great game management
11:Habanna:World class winger, some afterburner for the try in 2nd test!
12:Roberts:Cut South Africa to shreds all tour
13:O'Driscoll: the great man had a massive tour, world player of the year contender
14ieterson:His game has improved astronomically in 2yrs
15:Kearney:My player of the tournament, killed the boks kicking game:best FB in world rugby at the moment.

This is my combined 15 from the tour.
there is questionable decisions at 7 and 8. Williams is too good to be left off and Smith doesnt produce that kind of magic for me to pick him, i didnt see him link backs and forward although he is awesome at the tail of the lineout, while Wallaces ball carrying is magestic at times.. i am probably lacking a lethal ball carrier from the back row. Spies to me is abit of a showboat and needs to improve his all-round game to become the best no:8 in world rugby..he has the tools but for me Heaslip is a more honest player and isnt bad in broken play either as shown in the 3rd test.[/b]

Oh you've hit one of my pet hates.

Really irks me when rugby "experts" refer to them as footballers. WRONG GAME YOU NUMPTIES. We are Rugby Players not footballers.

NB- This isnt aimed directley at you Macado

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Jul 8 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 8 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My combined XV:

1.Genkins: solid in the scum, excellent tackler and good in the loose
2u Plessis: can be an airhead but his throws are awesome and makes serious yards in broken play.
3:Jones: Apologies to the beast lovers but he is just not ready YET!! Jones is abetter all round player.
4:Botha:Man eats lead for breakfast dinner and supper, must be a desendant from russel crowe in gladiator
5:Matfield:Im picking him because of the platform in the lineout, is a better jumper than O'Connell
6:Brussow:As previously stated, he is Kryptonite in the breakdown, PLAGUE!
7:Williams:I love this guy..Footballing genius, although i should be picking Wallace for ball carrying!!
8:Heaslip:Spies just did nothing for me, even with all that potential:Heaslip got his hands dirty
9u Preez: Destroyed the lions in the 2nd test, close to best player in the game
10:Jones:solid all through and linked well with the midfield, great game management
11:Habanna:World class winger, some afterburner for the try in 2nd test!
12:Roberts:Cut South Africa to shreds all tour
13:O'Driscoll: the great man had a massive tour, world player of the year contender
14ieterson:His game has improved astronomically in 2yrs
15:Kearney:My player of the tournament, killed the boks kicking game:best FB in world rugby at the moment.

This is my combined 15 from the tour.
there is questionable decisions at 7 and 8. Williams is too good to be left off and Smith doesnt produce that kind of magic for me to pick him, i didnt see him link backs and forward although he is awesome at the tail of the lineout, while Wallaces ball carrying is magestic at times.. i am probably lacking a lethal ball carrier from the back row. Spies to me is abit of a showboat and needs to improve his all-round game to become the best no:8 in world rugby..he has the tools but for me Heaslip is a more honest player and isnt bad in broken play either as shown in the 3rd test.[/b]

Oh you've hit one of my pet hates.

Really irks me when rugby "experts" refer to them as footballers. WRONG GAME YOU NUMPTIES. We are Rugby Players not footballers.

NB- This isnt aimed directley at you Macado
[/b][/quote]

Wrong. Football is a generic term used for several sports; Assosciation Football (Soccer), Rugby Football, Gaelic Football etc. It's the general concensus however that the most popular form of the game played in which ever country is referred to as "Football" as a slang term.

Fact of the day: "Soccer" was actually coined by the FA not long after the official rulebook of Association Football was drawn up. It's not an Americanism.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

Right fed up of this debate about the Beast at scrum time.

When he decided to turn inwards illegally he won. Namely against Vickery. Its up to the ref to see this so the Beast was well in his right to do so until he was penalised. When the ref watched him closely and had to watch him carefully he was not that effective. In the second test Adam Jones did tame him, no matter what any SA fan says he was tamed. He was only effective when Jones went off because he was not getting a hammering at scrum time.

In the future the Beast will be an awesome player.

 

[Jer Mac]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Jul 8 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 8 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My combined XV:

1.Genkins: solid in the scum, excellent tackler and good in the loose
2u Plessis: can be an airhead but his throws are awesome and makes serious yards in broken play.
3:Jones: Apologies to the beast lovers but he is just not ready YET!! Jones is abetter all round player.
4:Botha:Man eats lead for breakfast dinner and supper, must be a desendant from russel crowe in gladiator
5:Matfield:Im picking him because of the platform in the lineout, is a better jumper than O'Connell
6:Brussow:As previously stated, he is Kryptonite in the breakdown, PLAGUE!
7:Williams:I love this guy..Footballing genius, although i should be picking Wallace for ball carrying!!
8:Heaslip:Spies just did nothing for me, even with all that potential:Heaslip got his hands dirty
9u Preez: Destroyed the lions in the 2nd test, close to best player in the game
10:Jones:solid all through and linked well with the midfield, great game management
11:Habanna:World class winger, some afterburner for the try in 2nd test!
12:Roberts:Cut South Africa to shreds all tour
13:O'Driscoll: the great man had a massive tour, world player of the year contender
14ieterson:His game has improved astronomically in 2yrs
15:Kearney:My player of the tournament, killed the boks kicking game:best FB in world rugby at the moment.

This is my combined 15 from the tour.
there is questionable decisions at 7 and 8. Williams is too good to be left off and Smith doesnt produce that kind of magic for me to pick him, i didnt see him link backs and forward although he is awesome at the tail of the lineout, while Wallaces ball carrying is magestic at times.. i am probably lacking a lethal ball carrier from the back row. Spies to me is abit of a showboat and needs to improve his all-round game to become the best no:8 in world rugby..he has the tools but for me Heaslip is a more honest player and isnt bad in broken play either as shown in the 3rd test.[/b]

Oh you've hit one of my pet hates.

Really irks me when rugby "experts" refer to them as footballers. WRONG GAME YOU NUMPTIES. We are Rugby Players not footballers.

NB- This isnt aimed directley at you Macado
[/b][/quote]

Apologies, my good man.. I suppose i am one of those who has bought into the media slang and terminology. Although in saying that what are the alternatives:

Rugby genius:abit broad
Rugbyball genius:abit weird/sounds like he is the best at making rugbyballs
Handling genius:abit like he is about to lay 200 blocks in a day!!!
genius: at what??

there is a lack of an adjective for the Martyn Williams of this world..

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 8 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

1.Genkins: solid in the scum, excellent tackler and good in the loose[/b]

Didn't get to see him over the course of the tour, but he must have been pretty good to be considered better than Jenkins

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jul 8 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

Right fed up of this debate about the Beast at scrum time.

When he decided to turn inwards illegally he won. Namely against Vickery. Its up to the ref to see this so the Beast was well in his right to do so until he was penalised. When the ref watched him closely and had to watch him carefully he was not that effective. In the second test Adam Jones did tame him, no matter what any SA fan says he was tamed. He was only effective when Jones went off because he was not getting a hammering at scrum time.

In the future the Beast will be an awesome player.
[/b][/quote]

Yes agreed he did not always scrum legally, but most props try and bend the rules. He did however win some legally as well. The Lions were also penalised in scrums by three different refs in consecutive weeknds so they were not totally legal all the time.

Bismarck was also responsible for the torrid afternoon big Vick had in the scrum. SA pack are by no means world beaters in the scrum department and that has been the case for a number of years not just this series.

I felt that the Lions should have had a significant edge in this department but it just did not happen. Boks & Lions were pretty much even for me. The back play of the Lions in general baring two set piece tries of the Boks was way better.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jul 8 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

Right fed up of this debate about the Beast at scrum time.

When he decided to turn inwards illegally he won. Namely against Vickery. Its up to the ref to see this so the Beast was well in his right to do so until he was penalised. When the ref watched him closely and had to watch him carefully he was not that effective. In the second test Adam Jones did tame him, no matter what any SA fan says he was tamed. He was only effective when Jones went off because he was not getting a hammering at scrum time.

In the future the Beast will be an awesome player.
[/b][/quote]

Yes agreed he did not always scrum legally, but most props try and bend the rules. He did however win some legally as well. The Lions were also penalised in scrums by three different refs in consecutive weeknds so they were not totally legal all the time.

Bismarck was also responsible for the torrid afternoon big Vick had in the scrum. SA pack are by no means world beaters in the scrum department and that has been the case for a number of years not just this series.

I felt that the Lions should have had a significant edge in this department but it just did not happen. Boks & Lions were pretty much even for me. The back play of the Lions in general baring two set piece tries of the Boks was way better.
[/b][/quote]

Personally I dont think Geech got his pack right ... hence why the Boks were dominant at Scrum time in the first test

 

[Jer Mac]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Jul 8 2009, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 8 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1.Genkins: solid in the scum, excellent tackler and good in the loose[/b]

Didn't get to see him over the course of the tour, but he must have been pretty good to be considered better than Jenkins
[/b][/quote]

spotted that:sickened!!!!!!!!! haha

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jul 8 2009, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jul 8 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

Right fed up of this debate about the Beast at scrum time.

When he decided to turn inwards illegally he won. Namely against Vickery. Its up to the ref to see this so the Beast was well in his right to do so until he was penalised. When the ref watched him closely and had to watch him carefully he was not that effective. In the second test Adam Jones did tame him, no matter what any SA fan says he was tamed. He was only effective when Jones went off because he was not getting a hammering at scrum time.

In the future the Beast will be an awesome player.
[/b][/quote]

Yes agreed he did not always scrum legally, but most props try and bend the rules. He did however win some legally as well. The Lions were also penalised in scrums by three different refs in consecutive weeknds so they were not totally legal all the time.

Bismarck was also responsible for the torrid afternoon big Vick had in the scrum. SA pack are by no means world beaters in the scrum department and that has been the case for a number of years not just this series.

I felt that the Lions should have had a significant edge in this department but it just did not happen. Boks & Lions were pretty much even for me. The back play of the Lions in general baring two set piece tries of the Boks was way better.
[/b][/quote]

Personally I dont think Geech got his pack right ... hence why the Boks were dominant at Scrum time in the first test
[/b][/quote]

I agree. He did not make the correct selections but hey hind sight is a wonderful thing. I think they got caught a little by suprise as the Boks have been poor for awhile.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jul 8 2009, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jul 8 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 8 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 8 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well watch any of the tests again and look at the scrum - specifically the angle he engages at. Just because Vickery is useless and couldn't counter it doesn't mean "The Beast" is any good. Had that suck up tosser Gerald Davies not been rattling the sabre over the photoshoot during the warm-up games, Murray would have ahnialated him in all three tests (case point being the AI's when he, despite having a frankly useless Scotch pack backing him up, still got the job done). As it happened, Jenkins and Hayes did a good job of themselves.[/b]

Aaah........ another IF and would have blah blah. I certainly dont agree with you that he bored in on every scrum, was he perfectly legal on every scrum? Certainly not. I guess Jenkins, Hayes, Jones etc were all perfect and never walked round Beast in the scrum or dropped their binding when the Boks got the hit on etc. Your one eyed take on everything the Lions do is quiet entertaining really.

Beast did not dominate in the scrum but hell for a 23 year old prop to play as well as he did against very experienced good front row forwards he did very well. Is he special yes? Cause in a couple of years time at the mature age of 25 he will be a very good loosehead.
[/b][/quote]

Right fed up of this debate about the Beast at scrum time.

When he decided to turn inwards illegally he won. Namely against Vickery. Its up to the ref to see this so the Beast was well in his right to do so until he was penalised. When the ref watched him closely and had to watch him carefully he was not that effective. In the second test Adam Jones did tame him, no matter what any SA fan says he was tamed. He was only effective when Jones went off because he was not getting a hammering at scrum time.

In the future the Beast will be an awesome player.
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Yes agreed he did not always scrum legally, but most props try and bend the rules. He did however win some legally as well. The Lions were also penalised in scrums by three different refs in consecutive weeknds so they were not totally legal all the time.

Bismarck was also responsible for the torrid afternoon big Vick had in the scrum. SA pack are by no means world beaters in the scrum department and that has been the case for a number of years not just this series.

I felt that the Lions should have had a significant edge in this department but it just did not happen. Boks & Lions were pretty much even for me. The back play of the Lions in general baring two set piece tries of the Boks was way better.
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Personally I dont think Geech got his pack right ... hence why the Boks were dominant at Scrum time in the first test
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Totally agree with you there. Picking O'connell and Jones in the second row was a bit iffy. Had to be one of them and then someone really big like Shaw. More power behind Vickery is what was needed.

I also agree with the Bokke about the Beast's interpretation of rules at scrumtime, similar to the ruck. If you ain't got then you ain't breaking them. The player runs the risks themself, and if it pays off then it pays off.