• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Kidney: Lost the Plot

Teh Mite

TRF Legend
TRF Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
7,891
Country Flag
England
Club or Nation
Northampton
Declan Kidney insists Ireland will continue pursuing their attacking game plan despite Sunday's agonising 25-22 Six Nations defeat by France.
Ireland's ambitions were thwarted by a high error count as they were edged out by the French despite outscoring the visitors three tries to one.
But Kidney has vowed that his team will continue with the adventurous approach.
"There's no point crawling away now and trying to play a damage limitation game," said the Ireland coach.
"We need to keep playing this way and get used to doing it at Test level. It is the right way forward for us."
The Irish adopted a more high-risk approach in November, believing it would better suit their players, and they were electrifying at times in Sunday's game at the Aviva Stadium.
Kidney refuses to abandon the new tactics, despite the teething problems.
"The feeling is that game was an opportunity lost. We had too many turnovers," said the head coach.
"We won the try count 3-1 but still lost the match so we'll have to look again at the penalties to see which ones were under our control.
Kidney rues Ireland indiscipline

"The try count is of no consolation to me. People have paid to get in and are looking for us to win.
"An improved performance means you're not in the doldrums, but at the same time we want to win."
Tries from Fergus McFadden, Tomas O'Leary and Jamie Heaslip were not enough to secure what would have been only Ireland's second win in 10 meetings between the rivals.
Scrum-half Morgan Parra punished Irish indiscipline with a series of penalties while winger Maxime Medard crossed to help France move 25-15 ahead.
A late assault from Ireland set pulses racing but Les Bleus scrambled well before profiting from a knock-on by Sean Cronin that enabled them to clear their lines.
Captain Brian O'Driscoll viewed the afternoon as a missed opportunity after Ireland were once again undermined by their error count.
"I thought we were going to do to France what they did to us at Croke Park four years ago when they won in the last minute, but again we coughed up the ball too easily," said the captain.
"The chance was there for us to take it but we didn't. That's a bitter enough pill to swallow.
"We felt like we had massive capability to score tries. The chances were there but we weren't clinical and that's what's killing us."



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/9396712.stm



-------------------------------------


What attacking gameplan?
 
Agree with the way they are trying to play, willing to accept a higher error count but the penalties and poor selections have to stop.
 
Bullitt compared to the way we played last year and even in the AI's we are playing in a attacking style... depressing isn't it.
 
Are style is fine. take away the errors and penalties and we would have beaten France. We can score tries but we just need to become more comfortable with the ball and try and calm down abit.
 
I don't think Kidney has lost the plot he is still to Munster dependant on players, check out my views on my website http://talkingrugbyunion.co.uk or my ireland france article http://talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/six-nations/ireland-22-25-france

I don't think he's lost the plot either, I think he's got the squad playing to the style he wants them to play (and should suite them), when he gets his injured players back. It seems to me that Ireland's strengths are in it's backrow, and given that Heaslip is just back from injury, and Ferris is yet to return, he's relying on these players and the likes of O'brien to break the advantage line, and for O'leary, who he sees as the half back best suited to the roll, and Sexton to run off these players.
 
I don't think he's lost the plot either, I think he's got the squad playing to the style he wants them to play (and should suite them), when he gets his injured players back. It seems to me that Ireland's strengths are in it's backrow, and given that Heaslip is just back from injury, and Ferris is yet to return, he's relying on these players and the likes of O'brien to break the advantage line, and for O'leary, who he sees as the half back best suited to the roll, and Sexton to run off these players.

I agree. I think that our backrow was very good against France and we managed to dominate the breakdown and tackle area and that was without Ferris.
 
He has right plan but we need a 9 like Stringer with a pass to set backs and to eliminate silly handling errors. Also we need to sort out our set piece and get a platform
 
He has right plan but we need a 9 like Stringer with a pass to set backs and to eliminate silly handling errors. Also we need to sort out our set piece and get a platform

Yep, Stringer has a good pass, but to me (and admittedly I haven't been following Irish rugby that long), he doesn't seem to have much else ... so even a dumb ex-forward like me, can figure out what he's going to do :)

I think O'Leary's game is more of a running game which suits linking with the loose forwards better ... if he can sort his pass out (and that seems to be more of a directional and timing thing, than a slowness of the pass) he should be a good fit for the team.

There's probably room for both - by the way which IYO, which one is the better defender?
 
Let's put this to bed right now, O'Leary isn't, and never will be, good enough to play international rugby. His passing game is both slow and inaccurate, his kicking game is diabolical and he doesn't have anywhere near the running game of Mike Philips for example. In my mind he's a poor version of Eoin Reddan. In an ideal world he'd never don the green jersey again.

That said, our other options at SH are pretty poor too. Stringer is coming to the end of his career and while he's always had a great passing game, he offers very little in the form of a threat to the line.

Boss is physical and since moving south he seems to have improved his distribution game. He has as good a shout as any in my mind.

Finally there's Reds. If he could find his 07 there wouldn't be any debate over this. But he hasn't. I guess he's a halfway house between Boss and Stringer. He's prone to the odd loose kick and his delivery isn't as crisp as Strings' I think he's fine for this level.

If it were up to me I'd play Stringer and Sexton for 60 and then throw on Reddan and Rog.
 
The only ways Kidney's currently not with the plot is his idea of what makes a decent scrum-half, possibly overstated loyalty to his players and emphasis on experience and definitley absolutely his use of the bench which is farcical.

Which is quite a lot in total, but not as much as some like to go on about. I still probably wouldn't keep him when his contract expires without a significant improvement though.
 
When is he out? After the WC I assume, anyway who would you have to replace him?
 
When is he out? After the WC I assume, anyway who would you have to replace him?

Dunno. Dunno who's interested. Probably no one Irish, Kidney's the best qualified out of the Irish options so if not him, look abroad.

edit: And yes, his contract expires after the WC.
 
I honestly think that Ireland aren't too far away from being where they want to be ... I think the problem is in the handling in the backs, but i'm not too sure how much time they've got to tinker with other players now

... I don't think it would be good to change the coach now
 
Are style is fine. take away the errors and penalties and France would have scored multiple tries.

Fixed it for you. The only time France got clean ball they scored on first phase ball like the defense wasn't even there.

Kidney is having Ireland playing like Munster ie slowing the ball down, hands in the ruck, taking players off around the ruck etc. Difference is your gonna get pinged for that at intl level. Ireland were very lucky to escape a yellow card, and after they were warned, miraculously france got fast, clean ball, became threatening and scored.

Complaining about the penalties is a nonsense when you whole gameplan is about making a mess of every ruck.
 
Fixed it for you. The only time France got clean ball they scored on first phase ball like the defense wasn't even there.

Kidney is having Ireland playing like Munster ie slowing the ball down, hands in the ruck, taking players off around the ruck etc. Difference is your gonna get pinged for that at intl level. Ireland were very lucky to escape a yellow card, and after they were warned, miraculously france got fast, clean ball, became threatening and scored.

Complaining about the penalties is a nonsense when you whole gameplan is about making a mess of every ruck.

That one try wasn't anything special, it was D'Arcy doing a Rog and acting like a speed bump. France got their fair share of penalties for Ireland's negative play at the ruck and that's what lost the game for Ireland, the real reason they didn't get quick ball at the ruck was because France were committing only one (occasionally 2) men to the ruck when Ireland had three in their every time.

I accept that there was negative play at the ruck but I'm a firm believer that if you hit the ruck with enough men then hands won't be a problem.
 
That one try wasn't anything special, it was D'Arcy doing a Rog and acting like a speed bump. France got their fair share of penalties for Ireland's negative play at the ruck and that's what lost the game for Ireland, the real reason they didn't get quick ball at the ruck was because France were committing only one (occasionally 2) men to the ruck when Ireland had three in their every time.

I accept that there was negative play at the ruck but I'm a firm believer that if you hit the ruck with enough men then hands won't be a problem.

Richard_McCaw_588092.jpg
 
Top