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June International Test: Australia vs. England [1st Test] (11/06/2016)
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Haylett-Petty
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Dane Haylett-Petty is an interesting player
Haylett-Petty was on the run running right to left, Haskell faked left and then stepped right, very little anyone can do in that position plus it was a good step. Perhaps if he'd be static he would have more chance of nailing him.
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Some random musings from last nights game:
Yup I agree. The England defence was relatively weak or was made to look that way by the likes of Folau. That's an area they need to improve on. I felt every time we got down there we were going to score. And like you said they need strike runners. They didn't really have any backs that looked that dangerous. I liked Yarde, but he seemed to be lacking a bit in power considering his size. Can Watson be brought into the game more? England desperately need another fullback. Mike Brown is generally reliable, but is lacking in pace and elusiveness. He was easily caught a few times last night. He doesn't seem to run very naturally and stops and stutters, slowing down when he tried to beat a player. Players like Folau and Cullen would step and never lose pace.
I didn't think England played that great, but were smarter than us and that win is incredibly important for them. Even if they go on to lose the series, you can see that there is a world class team in the making there. Ford and Farrell played well, the forwards were immense, especially Haskell, they need a centre and a top fullback who can run. If they can get a 15 with the running ability of Folau, they will be so much more potent. Has Cipriani ever played fullback? He'd be ideal.
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austingtir
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Wonder when Cheika is going to realise Pocock isnt an 8 and Hooper isnt there best 7?
NZ totally schooled that lineup last year at the WC so I really dont see what he thinks is going to change with that lineup.
NZ totally schooled that lineup last year at the WC so I really dont see what he thinks is going to change with that lineup.
KeyboardWorrier
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It's the only strategy they've got...
Can I just say my sister's boyfriend Itoje was once again outstanding. All season for Saracens he's been operating at a higher level than any other forward I've seen in a long time. His performance for 60 minutes against Wales in the 6 nations was the best individual display I've seen at Twickenham. I'm only 19, but I've had debentures since I was 6 and barely missed a game.
He is phenomenal at the breakdown, winning countless turnovers. In the lineout he's a colossus, takes every throw off our ball, and disrupts the opposition ball frequently. In the loose he's dominant in his carries and in his tackling. And his skill set, whether it's tricky catches off the kickoff he takes, or loose balls he somehow scoops up is incredible.
He's only 21 and he's studying at university whilst playing. If he continues anywhere near the level he's been playing he should win World Player of the year for 2016 hands down. He's England's best player and I go further than that. Itoje is now ahead of Retallick as the world's best second row, and for me the world's best forward. He wins game after game with his play. He got Man of the match in the Champions Cup QF, SF and final.
I know I'm biased, but real rugby people know we're witnessing greatness. His level of play is just above anybody else's on the field. Haskell had a great game today, but Itoje performs at that level every single match. As long as he's in the England side, it's hard to back against England. He should be made captain within a couple of years. People talk about the "Eddie Jones effect", but really what's happened is Saracens in form players have improved England be it Kruis, both Vunipolas and Farrell, and above all Itoje. He's a sensation.
He is phenomenal at the breakdown, winning countless turnovers. In the lineout he's a colossus, takes every throw off our ball, and disrupts the opposition ball frequently. In the loose he's dominant in his carries and in his tackling. And his skill set, whether it's tricky catches off the kickoff he takes, or loose balls he somehow scoops up is incredible.
He's only 21 and he's studying at university whilst playing. If he continues anywhere near the level he's been playing he should win World Player of the year for 2016 hands down. He's England's best player and I go further than that. Itoje is now ahead of Retallick as the world's best second row, and for me the world's best forward. He wins game after game with his play. He got Man of the match in the Champions Cup QF, SF and final.
I know I'm biased, but real rugby people know we're witnessing greatness. His level of play is just above anybody else's on the field. Haskell had a great game today, but Itoje performs at that level every single match. As long as he's in the England side, it's hard to back against England. He should be made captain within a couple of years. People talk about the "Eddie Jones effect", but really what's happened is Saracens in form players have improved England be it Kruis, both Vunipolas and Farrell, and above all Itoje. He's a sensation.
The Jones Boy
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Congratulations to England and their fans.
Congratulations to Eddie Jones and his mercurial captain.
England are showing genuine belief for the first time since the Woodward team of the early noughties.
What a difference a coach makes.
England, fresh from exhibiting the worst choking in the history of the RWC, at home, cannot get out of their group.
Then there is a massive upheaval and some players coming from the cold and Eddie Jones is shoe horned in to take the reins and steady the ship then give it direction. He chooses a controversial captain and away he goes.
He wins the 6 Nations first up and still there are jokes about it being the battle for 5th place at the RWC...
Not any more.
Out of their comfort zone England have gone deep into hostile territory with a regular preparation and they have delivered a gob smacking result and a solar plexus short uppercut to Michael Cheika and his charges.
Robshaw played extremely well. Itoje is a player growing in stature.
This was a major milestone for England, make no bones about it.
A tough match against a highly respected opponent away from home where England kept their intensity and their focus, and forced the sometimes over cautious Wallabies into making errors they will rue when they watch the video in the aftermath.
A brilliant and shock result first up away from home.
A great result for the test series.
Really well done England, you bushwhacked the bushwhackers.
Congratulations to Eddie Jones and his mercurial captain.
England are showing genuine belief for the first time since the Woodward team of the early noughties.
What a difference a coach makes.
England, fresh from exhibiting the worst choking in the history of the RWC, at home, cannot get out of their group.
Then there is a massive upheaval and some players coming from the cold and Eddie Jones is shoe horned in to take the reins and steady the ship then give it direction. He chooses a controversial captain and away he goes.
He wins the 6 Nations first up and still there are jokes about it being the battle for 5th place at the RWC...
Not any more.
Out of their comfort zone England have gone deep into hostile territory with a regular preparation and they have delivered a gob smacking result and a solar plexus short uppercut to Michael Cheika and his charges.
Robshaw played extremely well. Itoje is a player growing in stature.
This was a major milestone for England, make no bones about it.
A tough match against a highly respected opponent away from home where England kept their intensity and their focus, and forced the sometimes over cautious Wallabies into making errors they will rue when they watch the video in the aftermath.
A brilliant and shock result first up away from home.
A great result for the test series.
Really well done England, you bushwhacked the bushwhackers.
TobesHodges
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First of all: YYYYEEEESSSSSS!!
What a game, The pundits summed up the best thing, that they adapted to Australia and when they did Aus had few answers.
Brown knows he had an off day and will be better for it, he doesn't have many off days In a white shirt..
I think We may see Burrell again In the last test if we're 2-0 up, I think Gustard will be putting a stick up him for the next 2 weeks and maybe give the lad one last chance, we go 1-1 and we won't see Burrell again..
The pack done a good job in the end, again like the commentators said, they hadn't faced pace like the Aussies in the 6N, so took some adjusting and will prepare better for the next test..
I think the Wallabies will just keep on doing what they did, had the Foley try remained and there many breaks come off better then we would have probably been looking at a different result. Though England will now prepare for there wide game and now Pococks out for the series.
Roll on next week..
What a game, The pundits summed up the best thing, that they adapted to Australia and when they did Aus had few answers.
Brown knows he had an off day and will be better for it, he doesn't have many off days In a white shirt..
I think We may see Burrell again In the last test if we're 2-0 up, I think Gustard will be putting a stick up him for the next 2 weeks and maybe give the lad one last chance, we go 1-1 and we won't see Burrell again..
The pack done a good job in the end, again like the commentators said, they hadn't faced pace like the Aussies in the 6N, so took some adjusting and will prepare better for the next test..
I think the Wallabies will just keep on doing what they did, had the Foley try remained and there many breaks come off better then we would have probably been looking at a different result. Though England will now prepare for there wide game and now Pococks out for the series.
Roll on next week..
Mumbles119
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The comments on England's improved ability to adapt are right, and I think the coaching should take the plaudits for that.
Since Eddie has taken over, I have found myself questioning and challenging the 'rules' of how we play, select players, and think during games. In a good way!
I think we have for too long been stuck with our comfortable preconceptions, and this was shown no more strongly than with this match. We all panicked about selection, myself unable to understand the lack of back row on the bench combined with the perceived slowness of Haskell and Robshaw. But the plan worked, with the ability to adapt helping (I.e. Burrell getting the hook early on).
So, now I am trying to think without the traditional restrictions, because the next game will be different and will require a different plan to win. And overall, I think the bench could be the difference next week.
Mako - did nothing too wrong, as you can't put all the blame on a prop when he was repeatedly left isolated in a struggling defensive line. But he didn't match the pace, which meant his strength of having deft hands was nullified. Start with Mako and tell him to go all out from the start and as soon as tired sets in early bring on Ellis Genge. Who is a terror on pitch with a pace that Mako does not have. Genge may be very young, but the pace he has combined with his aggression and strength should work at test level speed.
Billy - Feel like I am picking on the brothers! But as noted by a few Billy was just ok, and lost impact due to pace of the game. But before we change anything just yet, Pocock being out changes this. Especially based on Cheika's comments, which said Australia will now have to form a different balance in their back row, but hurriedly also said, "or we may have another 7 and keep it the same". I think this was said as an afterthought and we will see a more traditional 8 for Aus next week. This means Billy should start, because a slower heavier Australian back row could mean more time and space for Billy to run. But if things are the same as the first match and Billy is a bit anonymous and left behind, then Harrison should come on at 8 pretty early in the game. Harrison will keep up with the pace and make a carrying destructive nuisance of himself.
Ford/Farrell - should start as the 10 and 12 axis next week, as such a difference was made to the organised spread of defence and attacking distribution we had. But, Australia will adapt too and plan to combat this next week. So, if we get shut down with this option, then T'eo from the bench is unknown yes, but should create different option if the need to adapt arises.
Watson/Yarde/Brown - Watson and Yarde were both guilty of errors or misses. But, Yarde has only just started, and Watson has so much attacking threat we can't do without. Brown did nothing majorly wrong, and was a trusted defender too. But, Nowell can do the same and brings more. This means Brown would drop out of the 23 altogether, because Slade/Daly bring more options to adapt the game from the bench than Brown.
There are other changes I would potentially make, but they are preference based not tactical reasons that benefit as an overall whole.
So my 23 for next week that will keep the Aussie's guessing and give us the crucial ability to adapt is:
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje
5. George Kruis
6. Chris Robshaw
7. James Haskell
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford
11. Marland Yarde
12. Owen Farrell
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Jack Nowell
16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Paul Hill
19. Joe Launchbury
20. Teimana Harrison
21. Danny Care
22. Henry Slade
23. Ben T'eo
Since Eddie has taken over, I have found myself questioning and challenging the 'rules' of how we play, select players, and think during games. In a good way!
I think we have for too long been stuck with our comfortable preconceptions, and this was shown no more strongly than with this match. We all panicked about selection, myself unable to understand the lack of back row on the bench combined with the perceived slowness of Haskell and Robshaw. But the plan worked, with the ability to adapt helping (I.e. Burrell getting the hook early on).
So, now I am trying to think without the traditional restrictions, because the next game will be different and will require a different plan to win. And overall, I think the bench could be the difference next week.
Mako - did nothing too wrong, as you can't put all the blame on a prop when he was repeatedly left isolated in a struggling defensive line. But he didn't match the pace, which meant his strength of having deft hands was nullified. Start with Mako and tell him to go all out from the start and as soon as tired sets in early bring on Ellis Genge. Who is a terror on pitch with a pace that Mako does not have. Genge may be very young, but the pace he has combined with his aggression and strength should work at test level speed.
Billy - Feel like I am picking on the brothers! But as noted by a few Billy was just ok, and lost impact due to pace of the game. But before we change anything just yet, Pocock being out changes this. Especially based on Cheika's comments, which said Australia will now have to form a different balance in their back row, but hurriedly also said, "or we may have another 7 and keep it the same". I think this was said as an afterthought and we will see a more traditional 8 for Aus next week. This means Billy should start, because a slower heavier Australian back row could mean more time and space for Billy to run. But if things are the same as the first match and Billy is a bit anonymous and left behind, then Harrison should come on at 8 pretty early in the game. Harrison will keep up with the pace and make a carrying destructive nuisance of himself.
Ford/Farrell - should start as the 10 and 12 axis next week, as such a difference was made to the organised spread of defence and attacking distribution we had. But, Australia will adapt too and plan to combat this next week. So, if we get shut down with this option, then T'eo from the bench is unknown yes, but should create different option if the need to adapt arises.
Watson/Yarde/Brown - Watson and Yarde were both guilty of errors or misses. But, Yarde has only just started, and Watson has so much attacking threat we can't do without. Brown did nothing majorly wrong, and was a trusted defender too. But, Nowell can do the same and brings more. This means Brown would drop out of the 23 altogether, because Slade/Daly bring more options to adapt the game from the bench than Brown.
There are other changes I would potentially make, but they are preference based not tactical reasons that benefit as an overall whole.
So my 23 for next week that will keep the Aussie's guessing and give us the crucial ability to adapt is:
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje
5. George Kruis
6. Chris Robshaw
7. James Haskell
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford
11. Marland Yarde
12. Owen Farrell
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Jack Nowell
16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Paul Hill
19. Joe Launchbury
20. Teimana Harrison
21. Danny Care
22. Henry Slade
23. Ben T'eo
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Mumbles119, Agree on Mako and Genge.
Regarding the 8 situation, I don't think Billy should start. I can't see Cheika not going for McMahon at 8, another flanker. I'd go for Clifford as he can match the fast pace of the Aus game. Harrison simply isn't big enough to be an international 8, his England caps should be at 6 and 7.
Agree of Ford/Faz.
I can't get on board with dropping Brown to put Nowell at 15. Nowell hasn't consistently played FB since U20s, so starting him there at international level is a HUGE leap. I'd start with Nowell, Watson, Brown with Yarde on the bench so that if Brown really is performing awfully, then Daly can go wing with Nowell 15, or Nowell stay wing with Daly 15.
My 23 would be:
1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Robshaw
7. Hask
8. Clifford
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Faz
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Brown
16. George (I agree with dropping LCD, you can't have a hooker that can't throw lineouts
17. Genge
18. Hill
19. Launch
20. Vunipola (Impact off the bench)
21. Care
22. Slade
23. Daly
Regarding the 8 situation, I don't think Billy should start. I can't see Cheika not going for McMahon at 8, another flanker. I'd go for Clifford as he can match the fast pace of the Aus game. Harrison simply isn't big enough to be an international 8, his England caps should be at 6 and 7.
Agree of Ford/Faz.
I can't get on board with dropping Brown to put Nowell at 15. Nowell hasn't consistently played FB since U20s, so starting him there at international level is a HUGE leap. I'd start with Nowell, Watson, Brown with Yarde on the bench so that if Brown really is performing awfully, then Daly can go wing with Nowell 15, or Nowell stay wing with Daly 15.
My 23 would be:
1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Robshaw
7. Hask
8. Clifford
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Faz
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Brown
16. George (I agree with dropping LCD, you can't have a hooker that can't throw lineouts
17. Genge
18. Hill
19. Launch
20. Vunipola (Impact off the bench)
21. Care
22. Slade
23. Daly
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Not sure we could carry both Mako and Genge in the same 23, come scrum time.
Start Mullan and flip a coin for one of the others on the bench.
Start Mullan and flip a coin for one of the others on the bench.
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Yesterday it looked to me like Mullan was struggling more in the scrums than Mako was
johnmac99
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Nah
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What is it about New Zealanders having to completely discredit Pocock just so they can maintain their Mccaw boner, even past his retirement?
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Huh? Find another example of a kiwi discrediting Pocock.
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What Pocock is is the best jackal in the game. Period. Yes he can be nullified, as ABs have done in the past and England did yesterday, but it's a team effort at the rucks not to let him get over the ball, because when he does he is next to impossible to get off the ball. For me he was one of the key differences in the RWC for the Wallabies in terms of galvanising them into a great team from just merely a good one.
He will be missed big time for Australia in the rest of the series.
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Not necessarily on here, but they're all over Facebook. And yes England did manage to nullify him yesterday by adding more players to the rucks, but he was still making an impact as that was why the Aussie backs had so much space to work with, our players were all in rucks. With him gone, the likes of Folau and Kuridrani aren't going to make nearly as big of an impact.
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