Explain to me how Stoddart is still playing?
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Italy v Wales
- Thread starter TRF_Cymro
- Start date
James Hook "accidental contact with the eyes" on Bergamasco (read: thumb in the eye)
Then Stoddart slams him to the floor and punched him as well
Ref sees neither, and Jiffy complains about Bergamasco!
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Then Stoddart slams him to the floor and punched him as well
Ref sees neither, and Jiffy complains about Bergamasco!
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Wales win 24-16
On the Olyy note, if Hook gets cited for that be pretty poor hardly on purpose, I do agree how that could winde him up, there was more hands in faces and ****les on the floor throughout the game. You might also find Olyy Bergamasco retaliated to the aimless tackle by Stoddart by some handbags on the floor.
Stoddart was poor this game, yes he scored but his defence was poor and where was he for Parisse's try? Where was Halfpenny? Infact where was our subs bar Hibbard?
Italy need to find a goal kicker, cost them this game. Italy are gaining in confidence and are now more dangerous than ever.
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monkeypigeon
Bench Player
Meh. Don't think he was going for the eye and Bergomasco didn't react all that much anyway. 'Jiffy' was a complete pain in the arse for the entire match. I know that there's always gonna be a bit of bias but himself and Colin Charvis just take it to an irritating level. And I know it's 'rugby-football' but I wish Charvis would stop calling it football, international football, football football blabla.
TVH11
First XV
Took his try well, and also did well to prevent the try, but just that 3 on 1 opportunity just summed him up for me (it was easier to score than to f!!k up). He's not an international wing, good at region just doesn't have the head for top flight international rugby (I'm not gonna start discussing his defence - highlighted today many times).
All credit to Italy for taking the game in the second, but luckily (like Scotland last W/E) their lack of clinical finishing was their own undoing. Very frustrating to watch so many stupid kicks from wales, surely this wasn't a "game-plan". It was just silly.
Ah well wins a win, Ireland in Cardiff next week then.....
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Where was he for the Parisse try? I can tell you.
Why did he conceded that stupid penalty by pushing the Italian player.
How come he never gave that pass to the man over lap on the wing?
Why is his wing positioning at times so poor.
Enough doubts there to say he should not have played more after half time.
TVH11
First XV
Exactly, He shouldn't be playing. I'm not defending him (i don't rate him as a player to be honest). His defence is a liability combined with that he's greedy in attack (Highlighted in the missed oppertunity. Hopefully it'll be Shane and Halfpenny/North next week
Agree with this.
I switched commentary at half time and I moved over to the lads on S4C who I felt did a rather good job of commentating on the game without trying to be biased. I like Jiffy but bloody hell today he was annoying.
Don't get me wrong, no malice on the part of hook, but Jiffy was going on like Bergamasco had just decided to have a go at Hook whereas him and Hook were having a scuffle before when Hook wouldnt release the ball
Also agree about Italy desperately needing a goal kicker - left a lot of points on the pitch through misses or opting for touch in a kickable position
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Also agree about Italy desperately needing a goal kicker - left a lot of points on the pitch through misses or opting for touch in a kickable position
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Jiffy is getting worse, need to get a change in there.
Amobokoboko
Waikato Junglist
Ok, Italy played well the first 20 minutes, then got overwhelmed in their defense.
Really?
jim546
Bench Player
Well, Wales should have done much better today.
In the first 20 minutes, Wales played quite well (despite the kicking error that gave Italy the try), Phillips was recycling the ball quickly and using the backs well. Then after that he slowed down and just waited for the backs to line up and get organised, which meant the Italian defence could see what was happening and prepare for it. They need to start play faster than that. In the second half Wales were rubbish because of the slow ball from the back of rucks. They need to play freely, less pick-and-drive and less aimless kicking (Warburton).
Italy were good at capitalising on their opponents errors which gave them tries. The Italians really need to draft someone in for kicking play and goal attempts (or is that what Gower is for?). They also found gaps here and there, and the vid-ref decision could have gone either way. Italy had some nice set-plays especially with the backs darting into pop-passes which made some metres each time. However they were error strewn and their lineouts were hopeless.
My man of the match: Byrne actually played well today and Shane had some good play, whilst Parisse and Castrogiovani stood out in the Italian ranks. In the end no one person could really claim the title.
In the first 20 minutes, Wales played quite well (despite the kicking error that gave Italy the try), Phillips was recycling the ball quickly and using the backs well. Then after that he slowed down and just waited for the backs to line up and get organised, which meant the Italian defence could see what was happening and prepare for it. They need to start play faster than that. In the second half Wales were rubbish because of the slow ball from the back of rucks. They need to play freely, less pick-and-drive and less aimless kicking (Warburton).
Italy were good at capitalising on their opponents errors which gave them tries. The Italians really need to draft someone in for kicking play and goal attempts (or is that what Gower is for?). They also found gaps here and there, and the vid-ref decision could have gone either way. Italy had some nice set-plays especially with the backs darting into pop-passes which made some metres each time. However they were error strewn and their lineouts were hopeless.
My man of the match: Byrne actually played well today and Shane had some good play, whilst Parisse and Castrogiovani stood out in the Italian ranks. In the end no one person could really claim the title.
DuncTheDoodle
First XV
Phillips looks uncharactaristicly sharp for 20 minutes, then spent 60 being absolutely useless. I screamed "TAV! TAV! TAV! TAVIS KNOYLE!" at the telly so much the neighbours came round to check if I was having a stroke.
A win is a win for Wales and they will hope to continue gaining momentum but they really need to stop kicking the ball to the opposition. If Italy had a better kicker and could be more clinical they would have won that game. They Italians look more creative than ever but sometimes they need to run straight through the gain line. Wales were good in defence at times but around the rucks there alot of holes and the Italians exploited that well against other opposition their defence may be breached around the fringes. Stoddard was crap and he really needs to look around him. Wales also gave away alot of penalties and made alot of errors. Phillips became very slow at the breakdown and he was outplayed by his opposite 9. Byrne was very good and he runs very good angles and was solid under the high ball. Italy have great confidence and are really moving forward in both attack and defence.
Was good to see Byrne coming back to form,
Can't believe Gatland didn't use some of his subs though,
I understand not wanting to disrupt the team during a period of lots of defence, but Halfpenny would've made an impact if brought on for Stoddart
Thought Stephen Jones had a good game today, better than the England game at any rate
Can't believe Gatland didn't use some of his subs though,
I understand not wanting to disrupt the team during a period of lots of defence, but Halfpenny would've made an impact if brought on for Stoddart
Thought Stephen Jones had a good game today, better than the England game at any rate
Although I agree Stoddart should have been subbed, he's coming in for a little too much critisism imo. He was average and showed why he isn't quite up to the required level by making as many glaring mistakes as he did good things, but the poor display as a whole was due to those inside him. Wales were poor for 60 odd minutes of this match mainly because our halfbacks were poor. I thought Stephen Jones was extremely poor once again, we only seemed dangerous when Shane Williams stepped into the first reciever position. I know he's been a great servant for Wales, but the only thing he did well all game was that tackle on Parisse, turning over the ball. Along with Phillips, his kicking from hand was diabolical all match. In-fact the entire teams kicking was poor, apart from a couple of belters from Byrne, Hook was guilty of a coulple of sloppy kicks too.
Our error count is still way too high at this level, and against better opposition we will be punished. Why the hell are we trying some risky backline moves in our own 22, when we have a player in Jamie Roberts that can smash it up and make 10m with ease, whilst retaining the ball and provide some quick ball? We conceded two tries directly from trying to force the game in our own 22. We show very little patience, instead looking to score immediately, or simply kicking the ball away.
A few players had good games, but not many. Rees, Warburton, Ryan Jones, Roberts, Shane and Byrne all worked hard and generally played well. The props had a tough time of it in the tight, but did a decent job scrum time, but both were anonymous otherwise bar a few decent tackles. I though our second row today were shocking. Don't think I noticed Alun-Wyn do much of anything, whilst Bradley's dicipline was poor and his running game was mostly inefective. Lydiates workrate was a little below his usual, and he appeared to miss a few tackles arounf the fringes which is unlike him.
I've mentioned the halfbacks, whilst Phillips started well, his passing deteriorated and his box-kicking became infuriating. Hook was generally good, did well for Warburton's try, but made a few mistakes. Stoddart's errors have been pointed out.
What was Gatland's reason for not using the bench? We despirately needed some fresh input from the bench, and for me Turnbull, Halfpenny and even Priestland and Knoyle could have offered something off the bench. Priestland's kicking game from hand is currently much superior than Jones' and he could have given us some much needed territory, although it would have been a bit of a gamble bringing him on with the game up in the air like it was. Same with Knoyle. Also thought that not having a specialist second row on the bench came to bite us today aswell, as that was a substitution that needed to be made, but would have either meant Jon Thomas coming into the second row or Ryan Jones moving with Thomas coming in at 8. I would have been tempted to just bring Thomas into the second row, such was the poor performances of Alun-Wyn and Bradley.
Overall, not atall happy. I was hoping that with some confidence we could have moved on and at least put in a good 60 minutes of quality rugby, instead we got 20 odd minutes which also included a gift of a try. Depending on how Ireland go against Scotland, it looks like the next match is going to be two error strewn teams going up against each other. I haven't got high hopes of a good match there!
Haha, hmm. Am I being overly critical of him? He just doesn't offer anything anymore imo. A steady fly half needed to control the game, his kicking game is incapable of doing that at the moment. At least O'Gara can still kick the corners, pushing the opposition back, his kicking simply couldn't get us out of our half today (not could Phillips'). Sorry, but Jones has been shocking as of late imo. Against England I put it down to the bang he took in the first minute, he had no excuses today (bar Phillips of course). Not good enough by a long shot.
Edit. I'd just like to add that our problem doesn't start from a gameplan that's overly dependant on kicking, but it's the quality of the kicking. Our poor kicking is putting us straight back under pressure, resulting in the need to more kicking, and so the cycle continues. I don't understand why Phillips is box-kicking so much. The scrum half should only be kicking when we despirately need to clear our lines and passing the ball back 15m into our own in-goal area puts the fly-half under pressure. Even then it needs to find touch so we can re-organise. Our fly-half, whoever it is needs to find open space aswell, not kicking it directly to the opposition to run back. This isn't just Jones' problem, but his lack of distance is currently worsening the problem. Our lineout was going well today, we managed to put pressure in Italy, so why notkick for touch more often? It's baffling and was the main problem with our game today. We cannot apply pressure from our own half. Good kicking is necessary, we seem incapable of doing that at the moment.
Our error count is still way too high at this level, and against better opposition we will be punished. Why the hell are we trying some risky backline moves in our own 22, when we have a player in Jamie Roberts that can smash it up and make 10m with ease, whilst retaining the ball and provide some quick ball? We conceded two tries directly from trying to force the game in our own 22. We show very little patience, instead looking to score immediately, or simply kicking the ball away.
A few players had good games, but not many. Rees, Warburton, Ryan Jones, Roberts, Shane and Byrne all worked hard and generally played well. The props had a tough time of it in the tight, but did a decent job scrum time, but both were anonymous otherwise bar a few decent tackles. I though our second row today were shocking. Don't think I noticed Alun-Wyn do much of anything, whilst Bradley's dicipline was poor and his running game was mostly inefective. Lydiates workrate was a little below his usual, and he appeared to miss a few tackles arounf the fringes which is unlike him.
I've mentioned the halfbacks, whilst Phillips started well, his passing deteriorated and his box-kicking became infuriating. Hook was generally good, did well for Warburton's try, but made a few mistakes. Stoddart's errors have been pointed out.
What was Gatland's reason for not using the bench? We despirately needed some fresh input from the bench, and for me Turnbull, Halfpenny and even Priestland and Knoyle could have offered something off the bench. Priestland's kicking game from hand is currently much superior than Jones' and he could have given us some much needed territory, although it would have been a bit of a gamble bringing him on with the game up in the air like it was. Same with Knoyle. Also thought that not having a specialist second row on the bench came to bite us today aswell, as that was a substitution that needed to be made, but would have either meant Jon Thomas coming into the second row or Ryan Jones moving with Thomas coming in at 8. I would have been tempted to just bring Thomas into the second row, such was the poor performances of Alun-Wyn and Bradley.
Overall, not atall happy. I was hoping that with some confidence we could have moved on and at least put in a good 60 minutes of quality rugby, instead we got 20 odd minutes which also included a gift of a try. Depending on how Ireland go against Scotland, it looks like the next match is going to be two error strewn teams going up against each other. I haven't got high hopes of a good match there!
Haha, hmm. Am I being overly critical of him? He just doesn't offer anything anymore imo. A steady fly half needed to control the game, his kicking game is incapable of doing that at the moment. At least O'Gara can still kick the corners, pushing the opposition back, his kicking simply couldn't get us out of our half today (not could Phillips'). Sorry, but Jones has been shocking as of late imo. Against England I put it down to the bang he took in the first minute, he had no excuses today (bar Phillips of course). Not good enough by a long shot.
Edit. I'd just like to add that our problem doesn't start from a gameplan that's overly dependant on kicking, but it's the quality of the kicking. Our poor kicking is putting us straight back under pressure, resulting in the need to more kicking, and so the cycle continues. I don't understand why Phillips is box-kicking so much. The scrum half should only be kicking when we despirately need to clear our lines and passing the ball back 15m into our own in-goal area puts the fly-half under pressure. Even then it needs to find touch so we can re-organise. Our fly-half, whoever it is needs to find open space aswell, not kicking it directly to the opposition to run back. This isn't just Jones' problem, but his lack of distance is currently worsening the problem. Our lineout was going well today, we managed to put pressure in Italy, so why notkick for touch more often? It's baffling and was the main problem with our game today. We cannot apply pressure from our own half. Good kicking is necessary, we seem incapable of doing that at the moment.
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Over-critical of Jones. Where he is lacking is kicking but you can partly put the blame down to the service he gets from Phillips. His distribution and tackling are good, something that is constantly eluded to when people criticise Jones. People need to get off his back, maybe if we employed a decent kicking coach might also help, just look at when England kick, their kicking is simply fantastic. Box kicks go as high and the distance for chasers to get under and kicking the corners are superb. I also think Jones as well as Hook brought Roberts more into the game either by dummy running or by creating different angles for Roberts to run.
Mike Phillips can claim he was decent for 20 mins and then decided to go back to his old self. I was fuming that Gatland refused to bring Knoyle on, at the end of the day the best 9 Wales has is Peel best service and has decent speed still. Knoyle is raw but I think today he would have offered a dam sight more than Phillips did. Knoyle service is better but where he lacks is the vision. Saying that Phillips cannot spot overlap when there is one on.
Now comes onto Stoddart, anyone who can make excuses for him needs a thorough examining. I go back to the point I made earlier.
Further like to add, he has a tendency also to over-run people with the ball and sometimes can make a meal of try opportunities he is given.
Halfpenny should have been brought on, quite simple. Stoddart needs to be replaced in the starting line up. At the moment he is a liability.
Now it brings me onto Sir Warren of Gatland. Dear Warren, how long is this negative game plan going to continue? Where is Plan B when Plan A after 20 mins goes balls up? When will you see that Mike Phillips needs to be urgently replaced with either a fit Dwayne Peel or Tavis Knoyle? Why have you gone back to this situation where you don't use the subs when clearly you need to? And what was it like Warren not having your laptops out today?
I thought Jones was good ball in hand and on defence,
His kicking from hand wasn't great, as you said, but apart from that I think he did well - ran some good lines, and made some good hits
Peel had his best game for a good while for Sale yesterday, so if Gatland has any mind about him he'll play him against Ireland
His kicking from hand wasn't great, as you said, but apart from that I think he did well - ran some good lines, and made some good hits
Peel had his best game for a good while for Sale yesterday, so if Gatland has any mind about him he'll play him against Ireland
Yeh fair enough, maybe a little overly critical of Jones. But when a fly-half doesn't offer any creativity, he simply has to control the game, and a big part of that is kicking. I don't think he managed one good kick, and whilst part of the blame can and should be put on Phillips for his poor service, that's not always the problem. Jones' distribution and tackling is good, but that isn't enough for me, sorry. He also failed to stop Parisse for his try, and whilst that's not entirely his fault, afterall Parisse is a tough man to stop, but he had the opportunity to stop him. As for Stoddart not being there, vaild point, but it did come directly from turnover ball so he may have been lining up elsewhere in the attacking line.
I'm not trying to make excuses for Soddart, just pointing out that there were many other players inside him who had as bad if not worse games than him. Halfpenny should have replaced him, no question.
Yup Gatland's non-use of the bench should be questioned. He needs to drop Phillips asap, because he's hindering this team.
