Italy v Wales, 23/02/13

[Draggs]

And convince themselves. I love Scarletfever in August/September.
They apparently had the best centre depth of any European club.

I'd pick both Byrne and Fussell over Liam Williams.
Fussell-Walker is a joy to watch sometimes.

 

[London_Italian]

Parisse being out certainly is a blow for us....hopefully Barbieri will be around to play instead. I would like to see us win as it is a winnable game against a poorly managed Wales team, but my head still says Wales by 10

 

[LittleGuy]

Barbieri is a solid player, no Parisse but it's not like he's a stiff. I'm going with Wales in this one though I'm not expecting a blowout, Italy almost always fights hard at home. A lot depends on whether Parisse's absence is a rallying point for the side or whether it crushes them. I could also see them playing a more conservative style of gameplan after the wide open play backfired horribly against Scotland. Wales picked up a hard fought win last week as well but haven't exactly set the world on fire recently, which is leading me to a 3-10 point Wales win.

Orquera or Burton will reveal a lot about the style Brunel and Italy are planning on going with.

 

[Thingimubob]

And convince themselves. I love Scarletfever in August/September.
They apparently had the best centre depth of any European club.

I'd pick both Byrne and Fussell over Liam Williams.
Fussell-Walker is a joy to watch sometimes.

This. Still bemuses me why Fussell hasn't had a chance to play for Wales at all, when there's been a fair few at both fullback and wing who've massively under achieved at international level.

 

[LittleGuy]

The Italian squad has finally been announced and as I suspected Orquera has been dropped and Italy will go with Burton as well Gori starts....Vosawai replaces Parisse so a decent downgrade at 8.

15 Andrea Masi, 14 Giovambattista Venditti, 13 Tommaso Benvenuti, 12 Gonzalo Canale, 11 Luke McLean, 10 Kristopher Burton, 9 Edoardo Gori, 8 Ratu Manoa Vosawai, 7 Simone Favaro, 6 Alessandro Zanni, 5 Francesco Minto, 4 Antonio Pavanello, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini 1 Andrea Lo Cicero.

Replacements: 16 Davide Giazzon, 17 Alberto De Marchi, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Quintin Geldenhuys, 20 Paul Derbyshire, 21 Tobias Botes, 22 Luciano Orquera , 23 Gonzalo Garcia

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't know how I feel about the Orquera/Burton switch...

 

[smb64]

Italy are more threatening with Orquera on the pitch, they should have kept faith. Sure he threw that intercept pass - but Hogg had jumped out the line, if he'd timed it to a seconds difference people would be praising him for setting up an impressive try. Its all fine margins.

 

[Jbobo]

As a Welshman, i'm quite pleased that Orquera has been dropped for Burton. He was fantastic against France, and i think he has more creativity than Burton.

 

[psychic duck]

Burton is more consistent than Orquera. Also isn't as pathetic a defender (remember Twickenham 2011 anybody?) and is a better goal kicker. Having said that though, Burton stands too deep, passing isn't so accurate and generally the Italian backline doesn't function with him.

Both players miss large elements of their game to be a good international fly half. If you could merge the best of them together you might just get one.

The Italian squad has finally been announced and as I suspected Orquera has been dropped and Italy will go with Burton as well Gori starts....Vosawai replaces Parisse so a decent downgrade at 8.

15 Andrea Masi, 14 Giovambattista Venditti, 13 Tommaso Benvenuti, 12 Gonzalo Canale, 11 Luke McLean, 10 Kristopher Burton, 9 Edoardo Gori, 8 Ratu Manoa Vosawai, 7 Simone Favaro, 6 Alessandro Zanni, 5 Francesco Minto, 4 Antonio Pavanello, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini 1 Andrea Lo Cicero.

Replacements: 16 Davide Giazzon, 17 Alberto De Marchi, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Quintin Geldenhuys, 20 Paul Derbyshire, 21 Tobias Botes, 22 Luciano Orquera , 23 Gonzalo Garcia

There's an awful lot of Treviso in that team. 2/3 in total. With 4 on the bench.

Still strange as to why the FIR are happy that Zebre have one player in the starting lineup for Italy. Whilst Treviso get Italian squad members as their bench options. They ought to distribute the players better, get more players playing regularly and would improve Zebre too.

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't know how I feel about the Orquera/Burton switch...

Burton's soooooooooo.......flaaaat !!!!...

Italy are more threatening with Orquera on the pitch, they should have kept faith. Sure he threw that intercept pass - but Hogg had jumped out the line, if he'd timed it to a seconds difference people would be praising him for setting up an impressive try. Its all fine margins.

very good point. I was thinking that. Well not just as it happened, as it happened I thought "whaaaaat a fakkin idiooooot !!!!" but in hindsight....very good point.

Man....I'm not sure what the hell this is going to look like...seems most ppl are thinking Wales huh ? I can't imagine the quality of play will be great...I think they're both going to play conservatively...like not as ugly as the FRA WAL game, but no way near as fancy as the ITA FRA match. Orquera not even in, with Burton leading the way there, it's gonna be rucks rucks rucks....and then defense defense defense...for Italy, I fear.
Wales haven't looked good on attack......EVER in the past like 10 int'ls ?...

 

[Jbobo]

Burton is more consistent than Orquera. Also isn't as pathetic a defender (remember Twickenham 2011 anybody?) and is a better goal kicker. Having said that though, Burton stands too deep, passing isn't so accurate and generally the Italian backline doesn't function with him.

Burton may be more consistent, but i don't see him as a game changer/winner. I think what Italy will need against Wales will be exactly that - someone who can function the backline and get the best out of them and can produce a bit of flair. I highly doubt that the entire game will be an arm wrestle like Wales v France was. At some point Wales are going to run with the ball, and Italy need to be able to do that and this requires a fly half who can get the backline moving and firing on all cylinders. However i agree Burton is the better goal kicker, so if it is tight, this will obviously be crucial. Still think Italy should have kept the faith with Orquera for this one.

 

[Jbobo]

Wales haven't looked good on attack......EVER in the past like 10 int'ls ?...

Is that a question? Then i'll answer it. Yes Wales have looked good on attack at times in the past 10 internationals, obviously.

 

[psychic duck]

Burton may be more consistent, but i don't see him as a game changer/winner. I think what Italy will need against Wales will be exactly that - someone who can function the backline and get the best out of them and can produce a bit of flair. I highly doubt that the entire game will be an arm wrestle like Wales v France was. At some point Wales are going to run with the ball, and Italy need to be able to do that and this requires a fly half who can get the backline moving and firing on all cylinders. However i agree Burton is the better goal kicker, so if it is tight, this will obviously be crucial. Still think Italy should have kept the faith with Orquera for this one.

Orquera has been a game changer/winner once in 30 odd caps though. For the others he has been pretty consistently rubbish and reverted back to type against Scotland. How many other times do you remember him being a match winner and creating try assists for his team?

 

[Big Ewis]

Is that a question? Then i'll answer it. Yes Wales have looked good on attack at times in the past 10 internationals, obviously.

no no...wasn't a question ! :lol:

 

[LittleGuy]

Orquera has been a game changer/winner once in 30 odd caps though. For the others he has been pretty consistently rubbish and reverted back to type against Scotland. How many other times do you remember him being a match winner and creating try assists for his team?

These are my exact thoughts as well, I don't mind at all the change in the half backs by Brunel, I think we'll see Italy adopt a much more conservative style of game plan heading into the match especially with the talisman Parisse suspended. Orquera may have been brilliant against France but he was absolutely abysmal vs. Scotland and his mistakes led to probably two of the Scottish tries. Burton's not going to win Italy this game but he isn't likely to lose it either, he's not a bad game manager and his goal kicking is decent for Azzuri standards.

Castrogiavanni is handling the captain duties if anyone was wondering, and barring any unforseen changes to the lineup Andrea Lo Cicero will tie the all time Italian Cap record with his appearance in Rome .

 

[Big Ewis]

anyone else think this is going to be a boring match ??....boring as hell, anybody ??...
I dunno, I'm giving this one the Sleeping Pill award for the weekend. First weekend didn't have any, or Eng Sco if any at all...last weekend had 2 tied for it (all but Sco Ita), this weekend this is my pick.

 

[dullonien]

anyone else think this is going to be a boring match ??....boring as hell, anybody ??...
I dunno, I'm giving this one the Sleeping Pill award for the weekend. First weekend didn't have any, or Eng Sco if any at all...last weekend had 2 tied for it (all but Sco Ita), this weekend this is my pick.

I'm hoping to see Wales unleash the backline this week. I think we'll see quite a change with the win from last one really boosting confidence. It all depends how the game starts I suppose. If Wales score early, they'll open the game up, if not it could become a little cagey.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

I don't see this as being boring at all. Hard fought yes but not boring.

 

[Big Ewis]

hmmmmmm, as I've said before...based on last week (and both games for Wales), this will be conservative it seems. Tough defense, and not a lot of imagination or creativity, i.e. risk taking on attack.
BUT....but but but, Italy's at home, and though they have ZERO ability to back up that first match on the road a week later, they've yet to show that they may at least back up that first win as not being a fluke by playing two consecutive home matches with some parity, in quality and intensity.
They looked like steaming feces in Murrayfield, but maybe being home will awaken something.....and for Wales, maybe that win in Paris will given them the confidence to take more risks and go wide and quicker ball in stead of playing it safe like we both did (Wales and France) 2 weeks ago....

But I'm often too enthusiastic before a match, and then the hard reality hits me in the head again...and I can see myself anticipating the above, but really seeing like I said....defense and conservative offense.

 

[Jbobo]

Orquera has been a game changer/winner once in 30 odd caps though. For the others he has been pretty consistently rubbish and reverted back to type against Scotland. How many other times do you remember him being a match winner and creating try assists for his team?

Yeah to be honest i am quite stretched to think of many game changing/winning moments from Orquera, but then again, there aren't that many winning moments in general to choose from. I do remember his opportunist try against Wales in 2005 though, where he scored a try showing great speed and footwork to level the score to 7-7. He is also a better distributor, and works the backs much better than Burton. Plus he has scored more tries than Burton for Italy in the past. Although Burton may be more consistent if they are playing it safe, that tactic isn't going to work consistently against strong attacking teams. Better take a chance with Orquera and at least have a go at the Welsh backline instead of settling for trying to turn the game into an arm wrestle. Having said that, the weather inst looking good for tomorrow, so with that in mind it will probably be a territory game, so Burton may be the better choice in these circumstances as he plays deeper and safer.

hmmmmmm, as I've said before...based on last week (and both games for Wales), this will be conservative it seems. Tough defense, and not a lot of imagination or creativity, i.e. risk taking on attack.

In fairness Wales just didn't show up in the first half against Ireland, in the second half we showed more imagination and creativity than France have in the entirety of their first two matches. You seem to be underestimating Wales based on only the last two matches in your posts, but you still think that based on the last two matches France have a good chance of beating England in that thread and have said that France have shown some creativity but Wales have shown none. Seems odd to me, as you don't score tries without any creativity or imagination, and Wales have scored just as many as England and twice as many as France. Bear in mind that our first two games have been against Ireland and France, arguably the most difficult start to the championship of any side.

If the weather is bad, yes the game will conservative. Just as the England/France match will be if the weather is the same. If the conditions are good, i'd wager that we will see just as much creativity and imagination from the Welsh/Italians then we will from the English/French, if not more.