Ireland v Samoa

[Shaggy]

Jeepers thats a massive contingent....I knew the kiwis drew from the Islands but thats madness...I would never have thought Cullen was a samoan though :/

Yep, there are a large number of All Blacks that are New Zealanders of Samoan decent, and you'd expect that as New Zealands largest city (Auckland), is the biggest Polynesian city in the world (in terms of population). To be fair though, many (not all) of those listed are New Zealand born, and did all of their schooling and rugby development in New Zealand.

 

[Peat]

Don't think everyone Mike named is completely Samoan born in Samoa... for instance, Cullen is mainly Irish by blood. But was eligble for Samoa. Not sure such players should count, or should we talk about how Ireland have been done because the likes of Byron Kelleher, James O'Connor and Stephen Moore haven't declared for them?

Peat I know there will be big changes but I refuse to believe the gap as A TEAM is that big from a loss to a Connacht A team to beating Ireland in Aviva will be big turn around. I also stated reasons such as we have more time together etc (the Irish team have a camp every month)

On the question about Micko. I think he is an excellent personality and leader in a dressing room and an superb squad player at provincal level. A great man to fill in for the 2 lads but isn't international standard.

Not so sure, a lot of names I don't recognise in that team and a lot of them I'm not even sure they're professional... compare that with all the players considered important parts of top NH teams and there seems to be a big difference. I mean, yes, I'm expecting Ireland to win, but I think there's a big gulf between Samoa's best team and that team.

havnt left a post in quiet some time but would like to comment on the series so far.

No wonder, must take you ages to write each one!

Inside centre is becomming a slack area for us imo with the lack of genuine 12s in the country to challenge Darcy and Wallace. While Wallace plays clever kidney style rugby, he still isnt the answer and lacks something to make the jersey his. Darcy like Kearny is becomming obselete. his game is now too easy to read for opposing defenses and cannot remember him consistenly making line breaks this year. Maybe BOD could be looked at here. But who plays 13.. I dont think Earls is a good enough passer to play centre so McFadden, Cave anyone..

Don't think Mincer's had all that many sustained runs in the shirt to be fair and personally feel he's not looked out of place as 12 for Ireland. Should be installed in the shirt properly with D'Arcy having some work on to shift him.

At first I thought you were suggesting Cave at 12... Cave I think is excellent and deserves a go at some point, but he's injured right now. But if I was picking one of Wallace or Cave to go on a teamsheet, its not Cave.

We are also short well in the front five. Happy to see Toner tried but will be surprised if he ever makes the cut. I remember when O Connell jumped onto the scene. This big aggressive foxy demon, tormenting lineouts and rucks. Thats the pre-requisite i feel and Toner doesnt strike me as that. O Callaghan is another hiding in the long grass and Bob Casey for the want of a better word has been robbed of an international call-up. what does O Callaghan or O Driscoll do that he could not.. O Conell and especially Flannery (our only viable hooker) are baly missed. Best is a holy show! Hopefully Cronin can stake some reasonable claim on the no. 2 shirt which has been owned by some of the finest hookers the world game has seen.

Run around for more than 60 minutes these days is what DOC and MOD have on Casey these days. Forget Casey. He's been ill served but if you play Casey in an international, its only because you want to make us English feel better about having to put up with Shaw. I also think all of Tuohy, Caldwell and even Barker should be looked at by Kidney.

And I still say Best is taking far too much flak here. Poor game sure, but you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

What is the deal with Ross, can anyone tell me.??.there has to be some reason he isnt making it? buckley can play but cant scrum or lift meaning you cannot start him. court is thrown into both positions, a jack of all trades but a master of none.. Why not give Ross a go?

Compared to most Irish props, Court is a master of both! Will be interesting to see how he gets on come Saturday.

Unhappy stringer is our best option at 9... At 32? this cannot be the way forward but the others are cat replacements, eg. Reddan last saturday. But he will have to do untill O Leary is back.. O Gara is back in the hot seat and rightly so. I was peed for Sexton but he must learn how to run a game. Granted its tough behind a beaten pack but i believe he has the talent and will be better for this.

Nevermind behind a beaten pack, the poor boy was stuck next to Eoin Reddan all day! Thats one hell of a handicap.

I agree with everything else with extra emphasis. In particular SOB deserves his go and I can't wait to see a back-row of Ferris/SOB/Heaslip. As that's just violent.

 

[Sam Owen]

Jeepers thats a massive contingent....I knew the kiwis drew from the Islands but thats madness...I would never have thought Cullen was a samoan though :/

Yeah Christians family is from the same village as mine. Him and Aaron Mauger use to have interviews on Samoan radio, though they dont speak Samoan they absolutely recognize and are proud of their heritage, just like we are proud to be what ever we are. You are what you are.

Yep, there are a large number of All Blacks that are New Zealanders of Samoan decent, and you'd expect that as New Zealands largest city (Auckland), is the biggest Polynesian city in the world (in terms of population). To be fair though, many (not all) of those listed are New Zealand born, and did all of their schooling and rugby development in New Zealand.

Yep this is true and I agree. If it wernt for NZ there probably wouldnt be many Rugby playing Islanders as there is now. Many of the players of Samoan heritage Ive mentioned on my list are NZ born, the others were born and raised in Samoa (to an extent) and just wanted to play for the All Blacks.

 

[Shaggy]

Yep this is true and I agree. If it wernt for NZ there probably wouldnt be many Rugby playing Islanders as there is now. Many of the players of Samoan heritage Ive mentioned on my list are NZ born, the others were born and raised in Samoa (to an extent) and just wanted to play for the All Blacks.

Yep, I like that Samoan NZers are passionate about both teams, and that the players can choose which team they want to make themselves available for ... I heard that the changes to the SupeRugby contracts in New Zealand are now fairer to those players that have chosen to play for the Pacific Island teams ... apparently what they are being paid is more equitable with what the senior NZ players are getting, and may result in less having to go to the UK and Europe to make a living.

The advantage will be that they won't have to get a release from a club to play internationals.

 

[Jer Mac]

Peat,

We seem to share similar opinions but i would like to emphasize that Court should be given a prolonged run in one position. Even though he is doing an ok job as an impact sub on tiring scrums, it is still doing his game no good to be shifted from one side to the other.. He has shown so far to be a far more effective scrummager than healy or Buckley which at the end of the day is nearly more important to us.. I havnt seen enough of him to judge his loose play but dont believe he is very dynamic, open to correction?. Healy badly needs to start learning in my opinion. He has been handed more games to improve and im not seeing it, while his discipline is shocking.

disagree on Best however. I have never been a fan. His throwing even when Ireland were at their peak always seemed flakey and he is slow around the paddock. There is a gulf between him and Flannery although i hear your argument. MOD was calling the lineout for heavens sake so i pity any hooker. but at the end of the day, two wrongs dont make a right!

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads Mick O'Driscoll is excellent at calling lineout but didn't execute them.
Best though has never been safe with the darts and well it hits his confidence. I don't think he would ever cut it as a #2 on a prolonged basis because he isn't secure enough

 

[Jer Mac]

Lads Mick O'Driscoll is excellent at calling lineout but didn't execute them.
Best though has never been safe with the darts and well it hits his confidence. I don't think he would ever cut it as a #2 on a prolonged basis because he isn't secure enough

I cannot honestly say ive seen any evidence of this Munster (ot international level), but agree re Best!

 

[nickdnz]

Just something of interest:

All Blacks: 1108

All Blacks Born over seas: 80
All Blacks Born in American Samoa: Jerome Kaino, Frank Soloman(2)
All Blacks Born in Australia: Clive Bell, Michael Connor, Steve Devine, Alfred Eckhold, Ben Franks, Maurice Graham, Samuel Harding, Evan Jessep, Arthur Lambourn, William Mackrell, Scott McLeod, William Mitchel, Sydney Orchard, Edgar Stapleton, Kenneth Svenson, John Swain, Fredrick Tilyard, James Tilyard, Derren Witcombe, Francis Young(21)
All Blacks Born in England: John Dumbell, John Gallagher, George Humphreys, Fredrick Ivimey, Thomas Ryan, Hubert Turtill, James Watson(7)
All Blacks Born in Fiji: Bernard Fraser, Arthur Jennings, John Matson, Josevata Rokocoko, Sitivini Sivivatu, David Soloman, Joeli Vidiri, Ronald Williams(8)
All Blacks Born in Hong Kong: James Soloman(1)
All Blacks Born in India: Henry Bradon, Maurrice Herrold, Bernard O'Dowda(3)
All Blacks Born in Ireland: David Gallaher, Alexander Kirkpatrick, Timothy O'Connor, James O'Donnell, Robert Oliphant(5)
All Blacks Born in Malaya: James Hendrie(1)
All Blacks Born in Samoa: Sosene Anesi, Olo Brown, Eroni Clarke, Jerry Collins, Alama Ieremia, Casey Laulala, Christophe Masoe, Junior Malili Muliania, Johnny Schuster, John Schwalger, Rodney So'oialo, Isaia Toeava, Va'aiga Tuigamala(13)
All Blacks Born in Scotland: Alexander Armit, John Cuthill, Graham Gilbert, Colin Gilray, James Haig, Laurence Haig, Clifford Porter, Robert Souter, Alfred Wilson(9)
All Blacks Born in South Africa: Andrew Mehrtens, Rawlinson(2)
All Blacks Born in Tonga: Pita Alatini, Walter Batty, Sione Lauaki, Isitolo Maka, Charles Rachelmann, Saimone Taumoepeau, Osaiasi Vanisi(7)

Just shows how much influence New Zealand has gotten from players born over seas.

 

[munstermuffin]

When I say that I mean it as he knows excellently how to read it etc but well it like saying a prop who can always see great gaps etc but will never be a back.
On the Samoan team named. It has a bit more quality than I expected

 

[Muzzy]

Samoan Team named to play Ireland:

15 Paul Williams, 14 David Lemi, 13 George Pisi, 12 Seilala Mapusua, 11 Alesana Tuilagi, 10 Tasesa Lavea, 9 Kahn Fotualii, 8 George Stowers, 7 Manaia Salavea, 6 Ofisa Trevarinus, 5 Kane Thompsen, 4 Filipo Levi, 3 Anthony Perenise, 2 Mahonri Schwalger (c), 1 Sakaria Taulafo.
Replacements:16 Tii Paulo, 17 Simon Lemalu, 18 Iosefa Tekori, 19 Afa Aiono, 20 Junior Poluleuligaga, 21 Gavin Williams, 22 Jamie Helleur.

wow this is a very strong team on paper, i think this is pretty much Samoa's strongest team, the only players i can see not there are Tagicakibau, Johnstone, Fili and Henry Tuilagi. don't know if they even wanted to pick those players anyway.

i've never been a fan of Tasesa Lavea though i don't think he's that good, i haven't seen his recent form though but idk how well he'll play and i think this will be his first game for Samoa, a bit of a risk to just put him straight in there as the starting first five. i reckon Khan Fotuali'i would be a good first five for Samoa though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Paul Williams starting at 15
He's on top form atm, and the best player at Sale Sharks atm

Look forward to watching this (on iPlayer though, as some genius scheduled it at the same time as the England and Wales matches)

 

[munstermuffin]

How come there only 1 Tuilagi. I thought they'd have their own fleet of dumper trucks within the Samoan team

 

[Peat]

Peat,

We seem to share similar opinions but i would like to emphasize that Court should be given a prolonged run in one position. Even though he is doing an ok job as an impact sub on tiring scrums, it is still doing his game no good to be shifted from one side to the other.. He has shown so far to be a far more effective scrummager than healy or Buckley which at the end of the day is nearly more important to us.. I havnt seen enough of him to judge his loose play but dont believe he is very dynamic, open to correction?. Healy badly needs to start learning in my opinion. He has been handed more games to improve and im not seeing it, while his discipline is shocking.

Agreed, Court needs a run and that should be at loosehead as unless Ulster's injury crisis continues/Kidney orders it, thats where he'll be playing. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him shifted to tighthead when Botha goes to make way for Paddy McAllister. But thats slightly irrelevant (unless McAllister becomes a bolter...). Court isn't that dynamic at international level, he's been struggling to make a proper impact with the pace of games - but he's not slow and he's very strong, he usually carries a fair amount for Ulster and the most encouraging part of the SA game for me is the way he hit ruck after ruck. So it could happen. The problem with Healy/Buckley is they both look ok at provincial level with a strong scrummager on the other side... then they come to Ireland and get told to scrum next to each other. So one or t'other needs dropping. Don't think Healy had many problems once Court came on.

disagree on Best however. I have never been a fan. His throwing even when Ireland were at their peak always seemed flakey and he is slow around the paddock. There is a gulf between him and Flannery although i hear your argument. MOD was calling the lineout for heavens sake so i pity any hooker. but at the end of the day, two wrongs dont make a right!

Best slow? Hmm, not sure I can agree with that, he's certainly not Cronin speed but he gets around and is generally a plus in the loose. The throwing though... yes, it flakes occasionally, if Flannery returns to full fitness or Cronin proves he can throw them fine at this level, he'll probably be displaced. But its ok with a good line out usually, he's been fine for Ulster since getting used to Muller and was good for Ireland in the 6N until the Scotland game, most hookers around the British Isles occasionally stuff up on their throws but are forgiven - comparision with Flannery is bad for you clearly! Time will tell there. It's certainly an aspect of his game he could improve on and Cronin more than deserves his chance.

edit: Anyway, we'll see what happens, would like to also add I hope Ferris is kept off the bench and one of Muldoon or Henry gets a shot.

 

[veux]

How come there only 1 Tuilagi. I thought they'd have their own fleet of dumper trucks within the Samoan team

I think it's only the two who play for Leicester that are the standout ones, and Manu (the youngest one) wants to play for England.

 

[munstermuffin]

Isn't there 1 over in France that is a 8 with Perpignan.

 

[Peat]

Henry's the oldest still playing and plays 8 for Perpignan.

Alesana plays for Leicester, there's another one at Sale, one who released by Leicester and who played at the Pacific Rugby Cup and Manu who's at Leicester as well and looks like he'll play for England.

According to wikipedia anyway.

 

[coonor]

when are the replacements announced?

 

[northharbour]

Just come out now.

Replacements: R Best, C Healy, D Ryan, S Ferris, I Boss, J Sexton, K Earls.

 

[coonor]

Rory Best WTF

 

[Sam Owen]

Samoan Team named to play Ireland:

15 Paul Williams, 14 David Lemi, 13 George Pisi, 12 Seilala Mapusua, 11 Alesana Tuilagi, 10 Tasesa Lavea, 9 Kahn Fotualii, 8 George Stowers, 7 Manaia Salavea, 6 Ofisa Trevarinus, 5 Kane Thompsen, 4 Filipo Levi, 3 Anthony Perenise, 2 Mahonri Schwalger (c), 1 Sakaria Taulafo.
Replacements:16 Tii Paulo, 17 Simon Lemalu, 18 Iosefa Tekori, 19 Afa Aiono, 20 Junior Poluleuligaga, 21 Gavin Williams, 22 Jamie Helleur.

wow this is a very strong team on paper, i think this is pretty much Samoa's strongest team, the only players i can see not there are Tagicakibau, Johnstone, Fili and Henry Tuilagi. don't know if they even wanted to pick those players anyway.

i've never been a fan of Tasesa Lavea though i don't think he's that good, i haven't seen his recent form though but idk how well he'll play and i think this will be his first game for Samoa, a bit of a risk to just put him straight in there as the starting first five. i reckon Khan Fotuali'i would be a good first five for Samoa though.

I'd have to say wow too, I didnt expect us to have these guys made available to us. Still we have a very tough game against Ireland, the green machine are one of Rugbys great sides and the Manu will have the respect for them. Although our team has improved in terms of names, it still boils down to how they play Rugby as a team and this is something Ireland does very well.

CMON SAMOA!!!