Investec Champions Cup 23/24 - Round of 16

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah but all the talk before the season was that English sides can't compete and that the premiership is in the toilet and a terrible product

We can be pleased at 3 sides making the quarters without thinking any of them are going to win the whole comp

That's fair. I take in very little rugby media outside of the URC, CC and internationals so wasn't really aware of that.

The URC has been disappointing, hopefully the challenge cup is an indication that things might improve there though.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah but all the talk before the season was that English sides can't compete and that the premiership is in the toilet and a terrible product

We can be pleased at 3 sides making the quarters without thinking any of them are going to win the whole comp

We can cut this whatever way we want.

3 in the QF is good. But not reading anything into it, particularly as home advantage seems huge.

If Libbock had nailed his last gasp kick we'd have been looking at 8 home wins in this round. Only La Rochelle - reigning double champions - managed an away win, and by a single point.

Always going to get one through with Chiefs v Bath. Quins needed a late try and should probably have lost (you could perhaps see why Borthwick has reservations on Walker, not that he exactly has Lawes type jumpers to aim at). Only Saints really looked convincing.

In the next round it's hard to see Quins and Chiefs, both away in France, escaping pretty comprehensive defeats. Saints at home to Bulls have a shout.

Still, if you want your glass half full we have 3 times as many representatives as Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy combined.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We can cut this whatever way we want.

Why do we have to cut it any way?

Me: I like that 3 Prem sides are in the quarter finals
Everyone else: WHY ARE YOU SAYING THE PREM IS THE BEST, EVERY SINGLE SIDE IS WORSE THAN THE PREVIOUS

God forbid anyone says anything that isn't explicit negativity about the Premiership

I'll just go back to saying it's all terrible

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'll just go back to saying it's all better than Munster

Fixed that for you. Without materially changing anything at all.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Why do we have to cut it any way?

Me: I like that 3 Prem sides are in the quarter finals
Everyone else: WHY ARE YOU SAYING THE PREM IS THE BEST, EVERY SINGLE SIDE IS WORSE THAN THE PREVIOUS

God forbid anyone says anything that isn't explicit negativity about the Premiership
CLearly,
I'll just go back to saying it's all terrible

I've never understood why people are disparaging about the Premiership. Clearly, English teams are competitive with other European sides; English sides may not beat the top two or three French sides or Leinster, but they're solidly represented in the last eight and have been for a while. Likewise, English players are quite good enough at international level to compete with the best in the Northern hemisphere and any failure to do so is more about coaching and selection than available talent.

 

[munstermuffin]

Fixed that for you. Without materially changing anything at all.

We were terrible this year between injuries and in-house BUT if Leinster blow it again on Saturday then our season probably is more a success than D4 which would say alot.
As the Northampton fans called Leinster on Sunday the Irish Saracens I think they really fancy a crack. And I think Croke Park in a few weeks will be where it happens. And that as neutral as it gets Northampton is more like tho North Side than D4

La Rochelle already based in Cork. Came direct from South Africa and seem to be really focussed.

On the Premiership have watched a good bit and not saying it just because they beat us but Saints and Quins have been playing some nice rugby and I think the Premiership is actually quite good this year with some lovely rugby.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The English Leinster




I wouldn't be fearing teams coming into town on the M7 now really.

 

[munstermuffin]

The English Leinster

View attachment 19594


I wouldn't be fearing teams coming into town on the M7 now really.

As I said already I think Leinster win comfortable on Saturday but a loss really make the season a huge failure for all the investment gone in. Not even URC would make up for the failure.
Personally I think anything bar a win in this tournament should be deemed a failure but to loose to an out of sorts LaRochelle at home would rightfully raise alot of questions.

Also no it the Irish Saracens as Saracens more successful in this competition. As they view it Leinster have bottled it more when it matters in this competition

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

would it hurt more to lose to La Rochelle in the quarters or beat La Rochelle and then lose again in the final to a different team?

 

[munstermuffin]

would it hurt more to lose to La Rochelle in the quarters or beat La Rochelle and then lose again in the final to a different team?

I read somewhere Leinster have invested the most by a distance of all in Europe. I think they fail to win this year and it shows a massive vulnerability mental side that did transfer to Ireland at times. Not sure how the stat for investment is made though as IRFU accounts are not very open as in broken down well

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

As I said already I think Leinster win comfortable on Saturday but a loss really make the season a huge failure for all the investment gone in. Not even URC would make up for the failure.
Personally I think anything bar a win in this tournament should be deemed a failure but to loose to an out of sorts LaRochelle at home would rightfully raise alot of questions.

Anything but a win is a failure. There's 1 successful team and 23 failures in this comp every year.

Also no it the Irish Saracens as Saracens more successful in this competition.

Don't be this guy Muff!

As they view it Leinster have bottled it more when it matters in this competition

They're Saints fans, what's they know?! Only cans coming out of that Carlsberg factory.

 

[munstermuffin]

Anything but a win is a failure. There's 1 successful team and 23 failures in this comp every year.

View attachment 19596

Don't be this guy Muff!



They're Saints fans, what's they know?! Only cans coming out of that Carlsberg factory.

I'm only passing on the messages. They said facts hurt.

Would disagree on the 23. Like if we got to a Semi Final this year it'd have been a big success. But that was my assessment before all the transfer rumoura and in-house splits. I think Leinster it win or a very poor reflection on this group over past 3 years especially.
Like Saints I think make a semi final vs ye that is a huge success for their season and effectively a shot with nothing to loose or any pressure.

I think if La Rochelle toppled ye this year again in Dublin and then ye failed to win URC then would Cullen consider his spot? Not saying he would be under pressure but himself consider maybe a change is needed. I do think Nienaber is still fresh in so that effect regardless will be more evident next season.

Equally I think if Leinster lost this weekend then they will be hard to stop in URC as it would be all they focus on. But Nowlan Park may be a leveller just as they are unfamiliar to it

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd take a URC this year to be honest. We're already trending above EV in Europe having gone away to La Rochelle and won. Not winning any of the last 5 years was a failure sure. This year there's a new coach, new captain, I think after last week and all the McKenzie rumours it's obvious that the Byrnes aren't seen as good enough 10s and a poorly timed injury to James Ryan who is possibly our most important forward, the three remaining French teams are all as good if not better than us.

A win in Europe would be a bonus and probably require a bit of luck (which hasn't come our way in recent seasons), the URC should be bread and butter and we need to get it back.

 

[Stade Rochelais]

I'd take a URC this year to be honest. We're already trending above EV in Europe having gone away to La Rochelle and won. Not winning any of the last 5 years was a failure sure. This year there's a new coach, new captain, I think after last week and all the McKenzie rumours it's obvious that the Byrnes aren't seen as good enough 10s and a poorly timed injury to James Ryan who is possibly our most important forward, the three remaining French teams are all as good if not better than us.

A win in Europe would be a bonus and probably require a bit of luck (which hasn't come our way in recent seasons), the URC should be bread and butter and we need to get it back.

From my point of view, Leinster should focus on the URC to win the ***le, because this year, Leinster will not be able to win the champion cup, you have too many deficiencies in your forwards and your completely deserved victory against Rochelle, I remind you that several holders were unavailable.
I think we will win in Dublin by a big margin.
Your game system is too readable and too stereotypical. There is a plan that will be put in place to neutralize James Low.
It's always an excitement to meet Leinster, it has become the most important match of all the Champions Cup matches.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

From my point of view, Leinster should focus on the URC to win the ***le, because this year, Leinster will not be able to win the champion cup, you have too many deficiencies in your forwards and your completely deserved victory against Rochelle, I remind you that several holders were unavailable.
I think we will win in Dublin by a big margin.
Your game system is too readable and too stereotypical. There is a plan that will be put in place to neutralize James Low.
It's always an excitement to meet Leinster, it has become the most important match of all the Champions Cup matches.

La Rochelle aren't what they were last season either, I think the winner will come from the other side of the draw but any of LaR, Leinster, UBB or Toulouse can win this comp, possibly the Bulls too.

Think we have a slight advantage ahead of this weekend (-7 in the bookies is way too big though) because ROG is being weird and they've been on the road and in hotels for 2 weeks now but Ryan is a big loss for Leinster and that can't be understated (literally the only weakness in the pack though).

More excited about the Masters this weekend in all honesty, this fixture creates too much "alpha" BS for my liking.

 

[big ginger 8]

Bulls have an uphill battle with all the travel shenanigans from the SARU, don't fancy their chances this weekend.

 

[Stade Rochelais]

La Rochelle aren't what they were last season either, I think the winner will come from the other side of the draw but any of LaR, Leinster, UBB or Toulouse can win this comp, possibly the Bulls too.

Think we have a slight advantage ahead of this weekend (-7 in the bookies is way too big though) because ROG is being weird and they've been on the road and in hotels for 2 weeks now but Ryan is a big loss for Leinster and that can't be understated (literally the only weakness in the pack though).

More excited about the Masters this weekend in all honesty, this fixture creates too much "alpha" BS for my liking.

I remember Ronan O'gara's press conference before the Stormers game.

He explained that the Stormers could beat Rochelle because they were able to modify their playing system by using the kicking game unlike Leinster who like to keep the ball.

These are important little details, during the last two Leinster - La Rochelle finals, we clearly saw that Leinster did not apply the right strategy and used very little kicking, so if Leinster modifies its game and uses the kicking game, the Irish club will use the appropriate strategy against a French club which has always been able to neutralize Leinster's ball possession game.

Your game is too stereotypical and I remind you that Ronan O'Gara is an Irishman who knows perfectly all the cogs of the Leinster playing system. You don't play kick enough.


La Rochelle's qualification against Stormers was a miracle.
The Stormers technical staff understood that the kicking game would be the key to their victory, unfortunately it came down to one detail, the wind.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I remember Ronan O'gara's press conference before the Stormers game.

He explained that the Stormers could beat Rochelle because they were able to modify their playing system by using the kicking game unlike Leinster who like to keep the ball.

These are important little details, during the last two Leinster - La Rochelle finals, we clearly saw that Leinster did not apply the right strategy and used very little kicking, so if Leinster modifies its game and uses the kicking game, the Irish club will use the appropriate strategy against a French club which has always been able to neutralize Leinster's ball possession game.

Your game is too stereotypical and I remind you that Ronan O'Gara is an Irishman who knows perfectly all the cogs of the Leinster playing system. You don't play kick enough.


La Rochelle's qualification against Stormers was a miracle.
The Stormers technical staff understood that the kicking game would be the key to their victory, unfortunately it came down to one detail, the wind.

I don't think LaR have the edge in the coaching department anymore. Neinaber is another level to ROG and then some. Leinster are playing very different rugby this year.

If Ross Byrne starts I'll concede you are likely correct however. After his disaster class on the weekend I doubt he will.

Bookies have Leinster as 7 point favourites but it's far closer to a 50/50 game.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd take a URC this year to be honest. We're already trending above EV in Europe having gone away to La Rochelle and won. Not winning any of the last 5 years was a failure sure. This year there's a new coach, new captain, I think after last week and all the McKenzie rumours it's obvious that the Byrnes aren't seen as good enough 10s and a poorly timed injury to James Ryan who is possibly our most important forward, the three remaining French teams are all as good if not better than us.

A win in Europe would be a bonus and probably require a bit of luck (which hasn't come our way in recent seasons), the URC should be bread and butter and we need to get it back.

Still think the way it is set up then a European ***le should be target. I accept there a new coach and did say that his benefits won't be seen until next season. But more the pressure is to salvage effectively the last 5 years or so of failures. But especially last year.
James Ryan is a massive loss as he was the player that kept Leinster in the fight early last year and I think there isn't that type of player to weather storm if it happens early this year. Big Joe can but he has looked tired a bit lately which is understandable. But he may be key early.

On the 10s issue it is going to be an issue for Leinster. The Byrnes are there partly because you have investment, Frawley wants to be a 10, Prendergast is a 10 and if you throw McKenze in there it is too big a pool of 10s. Yes you can rotate them but 10s need runs of games. Could be a bit of a puzzle.

On URC Leinster will be favourites but I think leaving Dublin on to a GAA pitch could be a downfall. Obviously not their fault and they could master it just think it is a slight leveller.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

On URC Leinster will be favourites but I think leaving Dublin on to a GAA pitch could be a downfall. Obviously not their fault and they could master it just think it is a slight leveller.

I'd be interested to see if they move anything before the final. Last year was the first time they had a URC semi in Lansdowne and I think it was because Springsteen was playing the week leading up to it so the stands were taken down. Anyone but Munster and it's not financially viable before the final, even then it might not be with GAA rent prices.