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Int Ref's!!!!???

Generaal

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South Africa
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Who watched the game SA vs. Scotland? So now who.... if you are not Scottish (even they have reason to moan about this game- they could have won by more points), think the refereeing was up to par???!!!! Scotland won and they won well... due to some BAD coaching by Mr. De Villiers!!! (take me on on this if you want??!!)

But... big BUT!!! When will International Referees start losing their JOBS due to SHITTY refereeing??!

If one plays Rugby for your club/province/country provisionally you get punished or dropped for playing bad or making mistakes FFS...
But...
If you’re a referee (especially international), you can do whatever you want... not in a bad way “of course†but you can make how may “mistakes†and you’ll be OK.... no penalty to your career only a oooops ;)

You’re wrapped in cotton... :cool:
 
You could say the same about the wales game both against fiji and SA.. against fiji im not sure bai deserved the yellow... but saying that the crap ref who was reffing wales v SA was the touch judge..
As for wales v SA game the ref was poor against both teams, for wales leading up the the try where shanklin was tackled in mid air for one.. then missing forward passes etc.. and for the SA's a debatable norths first try.

Really Int. ref's should be judged after each game and for the big ones (top 10 teams in the world) they should have the best ref's who are consistant with performances.. but they are only human so really mistakes will still happen.
 
i know its kak to moan about the ref, people say its just making excuses
but come on even Victor matfield and juan smith were complaining and theyre the senior players in the team
did you see matfields face when SD gave some of those penalties, you could see he was ****** off.
 
International Refs are evaluated on their game performance ... Smart Cooky is probably the better member on this site to reply to your posts, but they do get dropped (just like the players), if their rulings aren't up to scratch, until such time as they prove that they have addressed the issues they were dropped for.

Australia's Stu Dickinson was dropped for poor decisions involving Scrum time rulings, and has only recently come back into international refereeing.

To be fair, i haven't watched the Wales V Fiji match yet, and was multitasking by watching the SA V Scotland match while I was also watching England V Manu Samoa, so i haven't seen that with an eye to poor decision making by the Refs, but if you look at matches from a neutral point of view, when was the last time you saw a flawless display from anyone in a Rugby International (Player or Official) ... mistakes are always going to be made, and teams need to put themselves in positions (where possibly), that the outcome of a poor decision is not going to cost them the game.
 
Seems as mr. SD's poor decisions goes much deeper than the scrum... we'll see if he get dropped after this "performance" he put on?!

Oh and btw... it goes deeper, in the NZ vs. Ireland game it looked like one can pass like a American football player so far one of that passes went forward... untouched again
 
There is only one world for Dickinson's performance with the whistle today.... abysmal!!!

Its time he was put out to pasture, like an Old Nag
 
Seems as mr. SD's poor decisions goes much deeper than the scrum... we'll see if he get dropped after this "performance" he put on?!

Oh and btw... it goes deeper, in the NZ vs. Ireland game it looked like one can pass like a American football player so far one of that passes went forward... untouched again

Sure, I saw that ... my points would be that in that instance New Zealand should have been relying on their defense to stop Ireland's first try, not for the refs whistle, AND that they shouldn't put themselves in a position to allow a mistake by the match official to determine the outcome of the game (which they didn't)

... If SD performance was as bad as it's been said it was here, perhaps he will be dropped again
 
Sure, I saw that ... my points would be that in that instance New Zealand should have been relying on their defense to stop Ireland's first try, not for the refs whistle, AND that they shouldn't put themselves in a position to allow a mistake by the match official to determine the outcome of the game (which they didn't)

... If SD performance was as bad as it's been said it was here, perhaps he will be dropped again

Oh, you saw one that I wasn't even talking about... rewind and look at min 48 ;)
The only thing everyone want's to see is Consistency. Those guys are doing their job out there... players and ref's alike. If I make such fu at me job... I would be fired in no time ;)
 
Alain Rolland is the best ref in the world no question but I think Owens is good, so is Jonathan Kaplan and I like Alan Lewis is good because he controls the game with authority and is quite funny.
 
The old man is still going on about Walsh last week. The phrase "get over it baldy" doesn't realy sum it up.
 
Stu Dick is a very average, sorry, sh...t ref.

In the SA vs. Scotland match he made some telling errors not just a little mistake here and there. His decisions influenced and swayed the match in Sco favour. I just hope he gets nailed for it. It is ok if you blow consistently for both teams but Bob Skinstad clearly explained at the half time break how SD was one sided with his views. The second half just got worse. SHOCKING!
 
Stu Dick is a very average, sorry, sh...t ref.

In the SA vs. Scotland match he made some telling errors not just a little mistake here and there. His decisions influenced and swayed the match in Sco favour. I just hope he gets nailed for it. It is ok if you blow consistently for both teams but Bob Skinstad clearly explained at the half time break how SD was one sided with his views. The second half just got worse. SHOCKING!

Forgive me for highlighting that but I think you can see how that is a tad flawed
 
Oh, you saw one that I wasn't even talking about... rewind and look at min 48 ;)
The only thing everyone want's to see is Consistency. Those guys are doing their job out there... players and ref's alike. If I make such fu at me job... I would be fired in no time ;)

I watched it live and didn't record it, so yep, as I don't necessarily take notice of every incorrect decision made/injustice, you might have to help me out and be more specific as to who was involved etc, at last until I can get a download of the game ... anyway, like I said, the refs are reviewed, so if SD or M.Jonker are found to have had such awful games, they'll be stood down.

I agree with your point about consistency - if the rulings made for similar offences are consistent, and if the refs are reviewed, that's all you can realistically ask for really ... I'm sure at international level, refs, like players strive to be the best they can ... the players are human and make mistakes, and so do refs for the same reason
 
A few months ago, when I posted a carefully considered, well researched and well documented analysis of Dickinson's flawed scrum management techniques in regard to the Italy v All Blacks match in San Siro last year, I was roundly criticised by some members of this forum for being a "whinging Kiwi", and that I couldn't handle that the AB front row was supposedly "owned" by the Italian front row.

(My analysis appears to have been deleted, or at least, a search fails to find it; I wonder why that is?

Anyone who wants to read it, there is a near identical post here on the RugbyRefs forum.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=98556&postcount=6

However, after reading some of the comments on this thread, I can hear the penny dropping, the realisation by some members that perhaps I was right about Dickinson after all.

Stu Dickinson was stood down after his San Siro train-wreck. The yellow card he incorrectly gave to Tialata was rescinded and the player's record was cleared. Dickinson was not subsequently appointed to any Tri-Nations matches (first time since 1999) or any Six Nations matches (first time since 2000). His first top level match back was Argentina v France in the June Tests, where he wasn't really tested, and this was his second match back, and it appears that he has learned nothing from this break and remedial scrum management training.

Interestingly, Paddy O'Brien was in the stand at Murrayfield. On the strength of what he will have seen today, I doubt that Dickinson will be getting any 3N or 6N appointments for the foreseeable future.
 
Seeing the professional stage the game is in and the amount of money involved these days, shouldn’t the TV ref be a more integrate part of the game in some way? Just a thought... cricket seems to be more fair these days ;)
 
Gah, moaning about reffing is hardly new. I have to agree there are some pretty evident flaws by many referee's that's probably not acceptable for top level football. Scrums are the biggest crock of sh*t at the moment. So many referee's just don't know how to referee them effectively. Deans made a rather stupid comment this week about the differences in scrummaging, saying New Zealand rely on tricks in the scrum, where as England has a high focus on forward ball in the set peice, but don't know the tricks. It's rubbish, and referee can't seem to get it right.

As a number 8 come prop, I can easily cheat and get away with it, and I do do it. Referee's just can't seem to work out, even at international level, who is doing what in a scrum.

After the engage, I've stood up slightly more, bent legs further down, and moved my kneck into the scrum, which makes it look like the opposition scrum is boring in. One or two complaints to the referee, and mention to him in the quet to watch out what the opposition is "doing to me", and you get the penalties. If that doesn't work, bind onto the loose heads props sholder, with elbow out (this is done all the time), making it very hard for the loose head to get a legal bind. Mention to the referee that he's not binding, and the ref will always look out for what you're making them see.

This cheating, that I proudly admit I'm guilty of, should not be tolerated in the high stages of the game, but it is almost always ignored. Australia has a weak scrum, however both the Wallabies and the All Blacks have been penalised based more on what the referee is looking for, than what he is blatantly missing. I'm not saying it's a one way sytem either, the All Blacks are very guilty on their own ball, of collapsing when it's at the back and the ref want's the game to be smooth, in order to stop the opposition from pushing. This was very evident against Scotland. The point being that if a top referee is missing these rather obvious infringments, than there really needs to be a unified camp in which both NH and SH need to learn how to scrum themselves.

I also think scrum halfs should be more highly punished for not putting the ball in quickly and evenly. The fact that many scrum halfs wait three-four seconds before chucking the ball to their own #8's feet, makes many scrums a total joke.

My final big complaint about the scrums, which I've said over and over again, is the count. Crouch-Touch-Pause-Engage, when it takes 5 seconds, is never going to create a solid platform. A team will either go too early because of the delay, or the hit will collaps. It should be a three second affair, which will give dominant scrums a better chance to dominate, while it will make the game go smoother. The faster the ball is in the scrum the better.

The other areas which annoy the hell out of me in the game, and the All Blacks do it as much as anyone (more to an extent), is diving into the rucks with a huge amount of momentum and everyone is off their feet, until the support arrive. If a player enters the ruck, he has to be able to support his own weight, and that is not at all how the game is ref'd at the moment. Almost all referee's end up ignoring it, or choosing arbitrary times to enforce it. There seems to be so little consistancy in reffing, that I can see why many complain.
 
I agree with crouch, touch, pause, engage but not in a sequence like Crouch *pause* Touch *pause* Pause *pause* Engage. It needs to be Crouch *pause* Touch Pause engage I have a little bit of sequence as a Front rower most i play the 2nd but from when i do if the Pause is to long it messes me up.


*not said by ref.
 
dickinson iss nooriously ****. steve walsh is another. not a fan of kaplan, jonker or joubert either.

rolland is the best ref imo, i'm a fan of lewis, jutge and owens.. wayne barnes isn't too bad either.
 
almal fa SA ons almal weet hirdie pisgesigte van new zeeland en al die ane lande ganie rerg saamstem oor die ref storie nie want hulle is die wat voorgetrek word terwyl ons an die agterste speen syg! my point is your blind if you think SD was consitant he was awfull, exa... hougaard was dissruped 2 times and he just looked away and acted as if nothing happend!!!! Die REFS is donerswil uselees
 
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