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Hurricanes Rant.

nickdnz

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Hurricanes
With no doubt about it the Hurricanes are playing some of their worst rugby in memory. In 2006 the Hurricanes made the finals, but lost to the Crusaders in very unusual conditions. In 2008 and 2009 the Hurricanes made it to the semi finals, before losing to the Waratahs and the Chiefs. The main point being, it has been the better part of the decade, since the Hurricanes were taken as such a joke. Now as a Hurricanes fan, it has been especially painful knowing that the form of the team, will likely have a factor in which players will be selected in the Rugby World Cup 2011 in New Zealand. So what is going wrong? Well, here are a few of my thoughts.

Our tight forwards, have been average at best. Neemia Tialata has been average as usual, but not any worse than he usually is, but it is John Schwalger who I have been most disappointed with. He had a pretty decent NPC, showing that he has a fairly solid running game which made up for his average scrummaging. However, this year he has been getting turned every scrum, and it's not doing his team any favours. Michael Bent is now set to replace Tialata again for Sunday's game against the Cheetah's, but I was anything but impressed with him in the past, and his disipline is like a penalty causing machine. Hore hasn't been spectacular, but not as bad as some would suggest, but in my opinion he should not be captain. Say what you like about So'oailo, he was at least a consistently good captain, and since Hore has been captain, the Canes have finished four places or more than when So'oialo or Umaga were captain.

Our locks have a similar problem as they always have, and it has been a long lasting weakness in the Canes. Other than Jason Eaton, who has been alright, but not the Eaton of 2007, there has been no outstanding locks in the Canes franchise since the S14 came about. Patterson showed he had promise, but then left, Bryn Evans was barely a spark in the pan, Thrush is riddled with inconsistency and no grunt and James Broadhurst has probably been the only half decent lock for the Canes this season. It's a constant weakness. I accept that we'll never be a great line out winner, espacially with Hore throwing, but what is really missing is a few proper grunt men. The Highlander and the Crusaders have probably the best locking departments in New Zealand at the moment, just because their locks don't try and make 100 runs a game, but rather do what they're supposed to do, and that is clear out the rucks, win the lineouts and have good pick and goes.

The loose trio for the Canes is another really strange problem. The reason it is strange, is that Victor Vito and Jack Lam have both had games in which they have shown their talent, but despite this, they need a good openside to actually win the ball. Serge Lilo is not it. At times like this, the Hurricanes need to take a good hard look at themselves and why the let Scott Waldrom go. He is exactly what they needed. Karl Lowe has been really missed by the Canes, but they need him back desperately if they want to try and maintain any dignity for this season. One thing is for sure, is that it seems a long time ago since the Canes could produce three quality All Blacks in Collins, Mascoe and an inform So'oailo to at least hide the mask the weakness in their tight five.

Weepu is missed probably the most at the moment. Eaton and Keats just aren't any threat at this level, and when you have uninspiring fly halves like Kirkpatrick on the field, or average goal kickers like Cruden, Weepu really seems like the missing partof the equation. We can only hope he gets fit and in form to make the All Blacks RWC squad, as when he is in form he is the best fly half in the country.

Now, as alluded to early, the stem of the Canes problems, is coming from fly half. Kirkpatrick has been found wanting on a number of occasions and looked below par playing for Hawkes Bay, never mind the Hurricanes. That being said, it's easy to see why Hammit would want to have a fly half who can kick instead of running a game, when in Cruden you have the exact opposite. Cruden has been showing that he just isn't ready to make the AB's as his kicking game just isn't quite what it needs to be, while the delivery to the 1st 5/8th has been essentially ruining the flat running game that Cruden has anyway. Fly half has been another position that the Canes have always had problems with, as the consistency of Gopperth and Holwell have always been questioned, but I'd take either right now over Kirkpatrick.

Now, out of all of these issues, none is more in the public eye than the form of what is considered by many to have been the best centre combination in the last decade, in Ma'a Nonu and the now injured Conrad Smith. The problem being is that with Sonny Bill Williams and Fruean running rampant for the Crusaders, the Hurricanes centres are looking very, very average. Now there are several main issues with the comparison between Fruean/Williams and Nonu/Smith, the main point of difference being that the Crusaders have a dominant pack and a quality 5/8th and the Hurricanes...don't. There is no doubt that the nifty off loading game of SBW has revolutionized the Crusaders attack, while Robert Frueans combination of skill and just pure hard running is something which is making the Crusaders a joy to watch. With that in mind, we have seen time and time again how well Nonu and especially Smith do for the All Blacks, and part of the reason being, is that the form of the team permits them to be as good as they are. Even the most bias and loyal SBW fan will admit he would not shine like he does, when playing for this Hurricanes side.

In the back three we are also being exposed. Gear made a solid and expected return last week, however we are not seeing the amazing running and counter attacking game that most would have expected, with a back three that involves arguably two first choice All Blacks in Jane and Gear and the IRB Jnr Player of the Year 2010 in the blockbusting Julian Savea. Whether it is just the pressure of being in a losing team is getting to them, you would still expect better, especially considering how hard Hosea Gear has worked to get in the AB frame. With competition from the very exciting Lelia Masaga and the clinical Maitland as well as other traditional All Blacks in Rokocoko and Sivivatu, you'd have to expect for both Jane and Gear to be playing some of their best rugby, as both of them will be after a spot for the wing.

The final issue which has been brought up, is the coaching. Blaming the coaches often seems like a way to pass the buck, but some of the decisions that have been made are obviously poor. Kirkpatrick should not be anywhere near the team, with Beuden Barrett only now being called as cover for an injured Cruden. The offensive patterns have been rubbish, and the lethal attacking game the Hurricanes have always possessed has been blunted to say the least. It just appears he has turned a side which produces a 50/50 combination of magic attacking and stupid errors, into a 100% stupid errors. Whether or not he should have got the job is in question, with Jamie Joseph and Dave Rennie both looking like better options in hind site, and the knee jerk reaction of keeping Hammet in New Zealand, seems to have come to the detriment of traditionally one of the power houses of the tornament.
 
A pretty far summation Nick - It seems to me that New Zealand probably lacks enough quality tight forwards to go around for all of the franchises ... particularly if you get a few injuries. Unfortunately, we are seeing this the most in the Hurricanes and the Chiefs ... If Tialata could get around the field, and hit the rucks and mauls, as well as he can twitter, he'd be awesome

As you pointed out, the Canes game breakers are in the centres, and in the outside backs, but if your forwards aren't at least gaining parity, and your inside backs are under pressure, and making poor decisions, it makes it very difficult for your centres and outside backs to function effectively.

I'm not sure what can be done with the current personnel, given the number of injuries ... maybe try to get the forwards to tighten up and try to play as a more cohesive unit, and try and get some go forward through counter rucks etc.

I think they really are reliant on Weepu to fix their inside back woes, which is a shame that he's going to be under that kind of pressure, coming back from a serious injury
 
One thing I find interesting with the Canes is that they substitute their captain (Hore) every game with 15-20 to go. Coles has made an impact when he's come on a number of occasions, but it just seems strange to be taking your captain off for the crucial part of the game. Their are really only two options in my opinion 1. Keep Hore on the field for 80 minutes 2. Pick a different captain. It's too late in the season to change captains, I just think this issue should have been considered more at the start of the season. To be fair their aren't that many obvious captain options in the Canes, but I think either Vito or Conrad Smith would do a good job, and at least would be guaranteed 80 mins per week.
 
A pretty far summation Nick - It seems to me that New Zealand probably lacks enough quality tight forwards to go around for all of the franchises ... particularly if you get a few injuries. Unfortunately, we are seeing this the most in the Hurricanes and the Chiefs ... If Tialata could get around the field, and hit the rucks and mauls, as well as he can twitter, he'd be awesome

As you pointed out, the Canes game breakers are in the centres, and in the outside backs, but if your forwards aren't at least gaining parity, and your inside backs are under pressure, and making poor decisions, it makes it very difficult for your centres and outside backs to function effectively.

I'm not sure what can be done with the current personnel, given the number of injuries ... maybe try to get the forwards to tighten up and try to play as a more cohesive unit, and try and get some go forward through counter rucks etc.

I think they really are reliant on Weepu to fix their inside back woes, which is a shame that he's going to be under that kind of pressure, coming back from a serious injury

I think the lack in depth in the tight forwards and at 10 is just due to the time it takes to develop in that position. With all these NH poachings, players of all positions are taken and then the younger generations have to step earlier than expected. Thats fine in most cases, a 19 year old can play 11-15 or in the loose forwards, but in the tight and at 10 its really an apprenticeship position. Players dont hit their peak in the tight until around 30 (Unless you are a freak of the Franks/Whitelock mould) and it generally takes first fives until the age of around 24 to learn everything they need to know.
NZ has the talent in the tight forwards but we just can't replace them at a fast enough rate when the experienced ones get snatched up. The loss of wisdom that the elder players and coaches usually impart on the younger players may hurt NZ later on too.
 
I'm hoping this win against the Cheetahs will give them some confident and some momentum to string some more attacking moves together.Ma'a needs to be more direct and run hard and drop his shoulders and bunt the defender off and not his side way cut back which he is doing at the moment.The Canes backline has no depth to it and Ma'a needs to be hitting the line at pace even coming back on the inside shoulder of Kirkpatrick.Gear looked great in his try and just needs space on the outside of his man.
I hope Taylor stays at 15 and Jane and Gear are on the wings,Can Savea play 13?
 
I think the lack in depth in the tight forwards and at 10 is just due to the time it takes to develop in that position. With all these NH poachings, players of all positions are taken and then the younger generations have to step earlier than expected. Thats fine in most cases, a 19 year old can play 11-15 or in the loose forwards, but in the tight and at 10 its really an apprenticeship position. Players dont hit their peak in the tight until around 30 (Unless you are a freak of the Franks/Whitelock mould) and it generally takes first fives until the age of around 24 to learn everything they need to know.
NZ has the talent in the tight forwards but we just can't replace them at a fast enough rate when the experienced ones get snatched up. The loss of wisdom that the elder players and coaches usually impart on the younger players may hurt NZ later on too.

I think you are right about developing experience being the root of the problem, and the problems been around a while, I remember thinking in 2006 how good it was because we had five or so good locks that had All Black experience, and it looked like we had some depth, but a couple of them got injured in 2007, and suddenly we were looking a bit thin there.

I know that teams like the Canes and the Chiefs like to utilise there great backs, but I think they should have put time into recruiting good tight forwards as well ... maybe they should have taken advantage of the international recruiting rules, and gone shopping for Argentine Props
 
Nick

I agree100% with everything you have said here... except for the last paragraph.

I do not believe that Mark Hammett can be held responsibile for the way things are going at the Canes. When a coach is failing, you see systemic failure in the team. Things around the game show failure too, players lacking direction, getting into trouble "after hours" etc. This does not appear to be happening here.

Hammett hasn't dropped a raft of passes this season, nor has he knocked the ball on numerous times, missed dozens of tackles, thrown endless forward passes, fluffed any high kicks or given away dumb penalties at critical times. The players have done all of these, and that is down to a serious lack of form by key members of the side. It is the root cause of their problems. If the coach puts into effect a game plan, and the players either can't or won't implement it, and end up losing, blaming the coach is the last thing to consider. Often its easy to take the soft option of firing the coach, because its changing one man instead of doing the hard yards and fixing what is really wrong. Look at the Brumbies, for example; they have been an utter failure ever since they fired David Nucifora. From 2002 to 2004 he took them to one semi final, and two finals, winning the last one. Then they fired him, and the Brumbies have never finished higher than 5th since.

As you rightly point out, players are not doing their core jobs. In a team that functions well (like the Reds, the Crusaders or the Stormers) each player concentrates on is own job and he TRUSTS his teammates to do theirs. I do not believe I have seen that trust in this season's edition of the Hurricanes.
 
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I'm hoping this win against the Cheetahs will give them some confident and some momentum to string some more attacking moves together.Ma'a needs to be more direct and run hard and drop his shoulders and bunt the defender off and not his side way cut back which he is doing at the moment.The Canes backline has no depth to it and Ma'a needs to be hitting the line at pace even coming back on the inside shoulder of Kirkpatrick.Gear looked great in his try and just needs space on the outside of his man.
I hope Taylor stays at 15 and Jane and Gear are on the wings,Can Savea play 13?

Absolutely. He played 13 for Rongotai College when he was there but I think given his start at Super 15 it would be too much to expect him to play there. Keep him on the wing for now or just don't pick him and give him time to develop his game. If he did play centre I think he would convert there like what Nonu or Umaga did. The problem with backline depth for the Hurricanes has been keeping on to players. Guildford, Fruean, Mathewson, Treeby or Ellison would all have been useful this year but you can't blame them for not wanting to preform fill-in roles.
 
Absolutely. He played 13 for Rongotai College when he was there but I think given his start at Super 15 it would be too much to expect him to play there. Keep him on the wing for now or just don't pick him and give him time to develop his game. If he did play centre I think he would convert there like what Nonu or Umaga did. The problem with backline depth for the Hurricanes has been keeping on to players. Guildford, Fruean, Mathewson, Treeby or Ellison would all have been useful this year but you can't blame them for not wanting to preform fill-in roles.

Oh sorry bro i didn't word it right when i was talking about back line depth,i was meaning during the game as in running onto the ball.The Canes have been using a flat line i would really like to see them have Nonu hitting the ball at pace and while Conrad is out injured have Savea at 13 running off Ma'a.
Savea is too good not to have on the field,yes his tackling has been off this year,but hey at this point in the season can the Canes even make the playoffs???
Nonu and Savea could be a nice change while Conrad is out still.Savea over Gear or Jane on the wing no-way im trying to get the boy on the field not the bench.
 
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I guess thats how it is for your 'Canes Nick.

They're really underperforming, surprisingly.
 
Serge Lilo looks like too much of a nice guy to be playing rugby.
 
I didn't see all the games off the season but they did miss Gear and Weepu. the backs played really well yesterday ( against the Cheetahs) but the gaps in their defense is just to cry about.
 
I dont think Hamment is the problem with the canes and I dont think the problem is with Key players like Nonu, Jane, Smith or Gear either - I think if those guys were in any of the top 3 NZ sides right now they would be in good form.

IMO the main problems with the canes are the props... Tialata and schwalger are both looking overweight, their workrate around the field hasn't been up to scratch and there are no excuses for that. The last couple of years it's become more and more important for the props to get involved in the game outside their normal scrum and lineout duties and these two guys should . The worst thing is that when you have a couple of fat slob front rowers the least you expect from then is a solid scrum but they haven't even got that to work off.

Next problem is the three key injuries.

rodney so'oialo
Piri Weepu
karl Lowe

It's debatable if rodney could make much of an impact if he was fit, he hasn't looked a top classs rugby player since the end of the 2008 season. But he's on the books and the Canes & NZRU are paying him a lot of money and getting noting in return.

Weepu - he's like the hurricanes Dan Carter, their best palyer and without his experience and kicking ability the canes are a bit lost. If weepu was there the canes could have afforded to play Cruden more.

Lowe - I just think he's much more powerful than Lilo and his strength is something the Canes are missing at the contact area.

10 - things are really unsettled in this area. Cruden wasn't at his best before he was injured and because his kicking for goal isn't top and Weepu is injured draw Kirkpatrick has had more gametime and he's been "ok" but not great. He is a quality kicker but hasn't been hitting as many as he should though so many of his attempts are tough ones - in contrast Cruden has been kicking at ~80% but most of his attempts have been from in front.

Patients - this is a problem the chiefs have had as well. That Brumbies game, they should have won that game but the Brumbies showed them how they should be playing as they held the ball, made the canes defend hard. Found something that worked for them and came back and won the match. In contrast the canes seemed to want to win the match as soon as they got their hands on the ball.

The problems the canes have up front arent helping nonu and when things aren't going nonu's way he just gets really frustrated and goes into a nose dive with his performance, I believe if he gets into the AB's and leaves his baggage in the hurricanes changing sheads he will be fine.

Lastly where the hell is Bryn Evans? Is he injured or has he taken off somewhere? Canes could really use him right now. He's great at restarts, lineouts and scrum time and he goes forward when someone passes him the ball. And he's big enough when he hits a ruck he makes an impact, more so than Thrush or Eaton do. One of my main problems with Cooper is that he benched Evans in favour of Thrush & Eaton when at the time I think Evans was one of the best locks in NZ.
 
Interestingly enough, Petone dropped Daniel Kirkpatrick from their Premier team and he was playing Senior seconds before he was picked for the Canes this year.
 
I personally don't think than Dan Kirpatrick is as big of a problem as many are making out. Apart from the first half against the Brumbies (when Cruden was impressive), the Canes have looked as good (if not better) with Kirkpatrick on the field rather than with Cruden. Not saying Kirkpatrick is a great player or anything, I just think he's been as good as most of the Canes backs this season (and in fact much better than a few of them). Kirkpatrick has never really lived up to his potential, but he has some obvious talent, so I'm certainly not writing him off as a failure as some people seem to be (not accusing anyone here of doing that, just many people I've talked to seem to have this opinion).

I think the main probelm with the Canes is their forward pack. They have two immobile (and generally lazy) props. Their locks are average - Thrush has a lot of talent, but plays too loose (and sometimes forgets to tackle), Eaton isn't the same player since he injured his knee, Broadhurst is actually ok (but is stuck on the bench). I agree with Larksea, where is Bryn Evans? Vito has played well despite the struggling pack, as has Jack Lam, but they are definitely missing Karl Lowe. Getting Weepu back at halfback will be a huge bonus for the Canes as well, as neither Keats nor Eaton have dealt well with the poor ball they have been getting from the forwards.
 
I personally don't think than Dan Kirpatrick is as big of a problem as many are making out. Apart from the first half against the Brumbies (when Cruden was impressive), the Canes have looked as good (if not better) with Kirkpatrick on the field rather than with Cruden. Not saying Kirkpatrick is a great player or anything, I just think he's been as good as most of the Canes backs this season (and in fact much better than a few of them). Kirkpatrick has never really lived up to his potential, but he has some obvious talent, so I'm certainly not writing him off as a failure as some people seem to be (not accusing anyone here of doing that, just many people I've talked to seem to have this opinion).

I think the main probelm with the Canes is their forward pack. They have two immobile (and generally lazy) props. Their locks are average - Thrush has a lot of talent, but plays too loose (and sometimes forgets to tackle), Eaton isn't the same player since he injured his knee, Broadhurst is actually ok (but is stuck on the bench). I agree with Larksea, where is Bryn Evans? Vito has played well despite the struggling pack, as has Jack Lam, but they are definitely missing Karl Lowe. Getting Weepu back at halfback will be a huge bonus for the Canes as well, as neither Keats nor Eaton have dealt well with the poor ball they have been getting from the forwards.

I agree.
Kirkpatrick is obviously not a top class player, but he has earned his spot with a couple of decent performances. Anyway I'm sure he is not good enough for a play offs contender team. To be honest I prefered Ripia.

Cruden is not ready for this level. I didn't undestand his All Blacks selection last year at all, and I think by now ihe is not mature enough to play regularly for Hurricanes or perhaps not as goog as we all thougt.

The problem is the forwards pack and the strength in deep.
 
Luckily the season is only halfway, they could try to turn the odds.
 
I agree.
Kirkpatrick is obviously not a top class player, but he has earned his spot with a couple of decent performances. Anyway I'm sure he is not good enough for a play offs contender team. To be honest I prefered Ripia.

Cruden is not ready for this level. I didn't undestand his All Blacks selection last year at all, and I think by now ihe is not mature enough to play regularly for Hurricanes or perhaps not as goog as we all thougt.

The problem is the forwards pack and the strength in deep.

He was a sound operator for a guy his age Ripia was (most probably still is) when I heard he was going to the Force I was quite surprised. Still young and developing a bit like Kirkpatirck only difference is I saw Ripia as more safe and promising.

The 'Canes IMO, in all their years have never really had a star 1st 5. Preston, Bauchop were very good...Howell was good but just no real star 1st 5s come from Wellington...whats up with that?

I forgot about King Carlos and Flutey, imagine the 'Canes held on to these 2 but thats another issue that is already evolving to other things in my head....

Piri Weepu has to come back as a 1st 5 because he can fix that problem. There is no worries in the halfback jersey.
 
ola boyz, hope you guys are well

i'm glad to see here's already a Hurricane Thread!! i love my team, and coming from "Kicking -Rugby-Country-South-Africa" i've had to defend my Hurricanes and beloved ALL BLACKS for the better half of my life.....always having to hear...you are chokers...you won 1 world cup...why don't you move to NZ etc etc...:D

anyways....

the Canes, well they have always been inconsistent....i have learn to except that....in fact i don't mind that the Hurricanes lose...for me its not about winning or losing...its about how they play...the excitement i get when the canes attack cuz you always expect something is going to happen...the canes have always had a mentality of you can score 5 tries we will score 6, they never really had the majority of great forwards in their team...so if they DID win ball upfront...make way for the backs...cuz they run!!!!

that is why i love teh canes so much....if i wanted winning rugby i would have supported the Saders...cuz they win...not so exciting as the Canes on a good day... you guys might differ from me..because i don't have any rivalry when it comes to clubs or Super15....

i am an ALL BLACK by 1st choice....so i love all the NZ franchizes and the Individuals from those franchises making up the AB team....the i chose the canes of how they play running rugby and because of the best running full back ever!!! CHRISTIAN CULLEN my hero....

so i want the key players in those franchises to have good games and be selected for the AB team...the canes are not firing like they should and why they always been inconsitant i dont know :? but i will always been a Hurricane fan...i think i'm the only Hurricane fan in Cape Town :D hell prob even the whole SA :D People look at me funny when i wear my Canes jersey :lol:

i'd rather suck my left nut that support these crap predictable running maul and kicking sides in SA.....

ok Canes vs Cheetahs, i don't know if you guys picked this up but the 1st try that Cheetah scrumhalf scored under the posts...was NOT a try...he lost the ball the %#&%#& and then pressed his arm agaist it and looked nerviously at the rev :mad: and it was awarded....i want you guys to go have a look again...its the try just after Gears 1st and opening try....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZA4kC-Njk

i was !@#!#!@ mad :mad:

so the last try of the canes was just justice otherwise they would have been robbed....
 

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