Heineken Cup Final: Northampton Saints - Leinster

[Logorrhea]

So anyone who supports their own Club, and on that note wants their clubs biggest rivals to get beat, first and formost is now a football rival?

I didnt say that Chris. I was talking about the intensity of rivalries. You seem to expect them to be more intense, more tribal, like football rivalries. I was just pointing out that they arent like that over here. Munster and Leinster can beat the living shite out of eachother on Saturday, the fans will still go drinking together, look forward to the world cup, and raise a glass to Connacht inclusion in next years tournament. We will all (well most of us) be able to reflect on what has been a pretty good year for Irish rugby.

Whereas supporting your biggest rival is loyalty?

I didnt say that either Chris. I said that its easy to support your biggest rival for a number of reasons. All of which made possible by the fact that the rivalry is not as intense as you portray yours to be.

Or for that matter, "anyone but the English" is completely different?

I didnt say that either Chris. I didnt bring up England, ir the English at all.

We'll see how many Dubliners support England in the World Cup judging by that mantra.

Rugby World cup, or football world cup?

So no, you don't get it.

I undertsand how Irish rugby supporters behave, and I understand how the rivalries work. I just dont understand the mentality that would have me hoping for Munster to lose because they are geographically close to me.

 

[Teh Mite]

Do you really?

So you understand how the Travelling Munster Faithful filled the Thomas 'A' Beckett and all thoroughly enjoyed the NotNots thumping Leinster at the RDS?

No you didn't bring up the English. I did as an example of what Celtic fans always seem to say... "I support Ireland/Wales/Scotland and anyone who's playing against England". Considering how much "history" counts in these things, especially from the Irish media, it's very convenient that all history is completely forgotten between the nearest and dearest as the "We're all Irish" line is towed.

The sad point is you don't understand it. You really don't. Without the rivalries, achieving a cup means **** all. Without the rivalries, "drinking with the opposition fans" also means **** all. To be a rival and sing a song about the opposition team isn't having a fight on the terrace (unless the knobheads form Leicester are involved).

 

[Charles]

Rivalries are intense in France but once we reach the knock-out stage of European comps everybody roots for the french clubs against the English/Celts. Does that mean we don't get it?

 

[Teh Mite]

Rivalries are intense in France but once we reach the knock-out stage of European comps everybody roots for the french clubs against the English/Celts. Does that mean we don't get it?

Go find me a single Clermont fan who'd cheer for Biarritz. Or Stade fan who'd cheer Racing Metro.

 

[Logorrhea]

So you undertsand Irish rugby fans and rivalries better then I do? you understand French fans and rivalries better then Charles does? You are some man. Seriously some man.

To be a rival and sing a song about the opposition team isn't having a fight on the terrace (unless the knobheads form Leicester are involved).

Then again, this kinda sums it up for me. Me thinks your missing the point of the game itself with a statement like that.

 

[Teh Mite]

Come on then you patronising [strike]poor mans Londoner[/strike] Dubliner (hey, if we're going to get personal).

Why don't you explain it to me?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Mite, calm down. You're supposed to be a mod here and set an example.

In terms of the Irish rivalry, I believe it was Paul O'Connell who said it best. You never want to lose to your brother but you'll always stick up for him when he's in a fight. For that read Munster enjoy beating no team more than Leinster but equally that rivalry is cast aside whenever Leinster are playing somebody else or when you come together for international duty.

 

[dangandan]

Personally if Munster was in the final against Northampton i definitely wouldn't be supporting Northampton. I'd definitely be leaning towards Munster because they're more local. An English team wouldn't have any relevance to me. I think the rivalry here only exists locally but when an Irish teams play on an international stage against an international team then patriotism comes into play. That's just how i see it though, i could be wrong.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I like to think that if you're not involved you should indeed root for your rival. Sure, you'd rather be there yourself, but you're not. I think you can have an intense and competitive rivalry without having to hate the other set of fans or players. Wishing the others well is a real sign of respect, something we in rugby pride ourselves in having for the opposition. To do otherwise stinks of begrudgery and pettyness. If Munster are doing well, all it means is that we have to raise our standards to get up there. All the best to them imo.

 

[Charles]

Go find me a single Clermont fan who'd cheer for Biarritz. Or Stade fan who'd cheer Racing Metro.

There you go.

A toulousain rooting for Stade Francais against quins

http://forums.rugbyrama.fr/showpost.php?p=2140798&postcount=10

Even better, a racing supporter (check his sig)

http://forums.rugbyrama.fr/showpost.php?p=2142514&postcount=15

the following posts are a Clermont and a Toulon fan.

I rest my case. I guess you're gonna tell me they're not real supporters now...

I don't think you understand...Domestic rivalry is one thing, international rivalry is something else entirely. Cheering for a English/Celt team against a french team is impossible (especially English).

 

[lynam1104]

Here's my 2 cents on all this, the way I was brought up in terms of rugby was about Ireland fist so this means that I grew up with hero's form all 4 provinces not just Leinster. When I got older and really started to get into rugby that's when I started watching club rugby, up until that point I didn't really have interest. So I always liked POC, DOC, ROG not just BOD, Horgan and Leinster from Ireland. I always want Munster and Ulster to do well because they're Irish. So in short I think it is just nationalism while I enjoy watching us beat Munster one of my favorite days in rugby came form Munster in the 06 final and how they became champions after almost getting it, I felt proud because they were/are Irish.

 

[munstermuffin]

I all of Ireland was shouting for Leinster (excluding the small minority) for various reasons
- Connachts Interests
- Economy Boost and Feel Good Factor
- Respect of a good Irish team
- Heineken Cup staying in Ireland

But look Snoop said it basically on how it is here, we hate loosing to Leinster, they irritate us alot but we do respect them.

 

[Teh Mite]

Must be the difference then between typical Club and Provincial rugby supporters then. Our lot never go down the glory hunters route of celebrating any success for any side we have no interest in otherwise, (and frankly towing the "they're English" line would be a bloody weak excuse IMO).

So far as I'm concerned what Neil Francis said was bang out of order, any neutral has the right to pick whom they want - The mentality in club teams here is typically to prefer whoever is against the rival. Describing anyone as a disgrace for making a different choice to what he would though smacks of hypocracy. That's the part which bugs me, especially as I suspect he'd have a very different attitude if UNoR were in the final against Leinster.

 

[Charles]

Must be the difference then between typical Club and Provincial rugby supporters then. Our lot never go down the glory hunters route of celebrating any success for any side we have no interest in otherwise, (and frankly towing the "they're English" line would be a bloody weak excuse IMO).

What about the French then. Not everyone is as narrow-minded and incapable to consider a wee bit more than his hometown as anything of interest/worthy of support...

So far as I'm concerned what Neil Francis said was bang out of order, any neutral has the right to pick whom they want - The mentality in club teams here is typically to prefer whoever is against the rival. Describing anyone as a disgrace for making a different choice to what he would though smacks of hypocracy. That's the part which bugs me, especially as I suspect he'd have a very different attitude if UNoR were in the final against Leinster.

Funny how this explanantion comes after you threw a hissy-fit and got soundly pwned for a page and a half...

 

[Teh Mite]

What about the French then. Not everyone is as narrow-minded and incapable to consider a wee bit more than his hometown as anything of interest/worthy of support...

Funny how this explanantion comes after you threw a hissy-fit and got soundly pwned for a page and a half...

Excuse me? What is this tripe you proclaim?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

So far as I'm concerned what Neil Francis said was bang out of order

As a rule of thumb, pay no attention to what Neil Francis, David Kelly or George Hook say. Francis and Hook are full of **** while Kelly is a soccer writer who is only covering rugby because Irish soccer players now refuse to deal with him. The only pundits/journalists in Ireland worth their salt are Peter O'Reilly, Brendan Fanning, Emmett Byrne, Liam Toland, Matt Williams and Gerry Thornley. On occasion Hugh Farrelly can get really good info while the Examiner rugby writers are decent.

 

[munstermuffin]

Must be the difference then between typical Club and Provincial rugby supporters then. Our lot never go down the glory hunters route of celebrating any success for any side we have no interest in otherwise, (and frankly towing the "they're English" line would be a bloody weak excuse IMO).

So far as I'm concerned what Neil Francis said was bang out of order, any neutral has the right to pick whom they want - The mentality in club teams here is typically to prefer whoever is against the rival. Describing anyone as a disgrace for making a different choice to what he would though smacks of hypocracy. That's the part which bugs me, especially as I suspect he'd have a very different attitude if UNoR were in the final against Leinster.

Be assured NO Munster fan went out celebrating a Leinster win or even acknowledged the game after the final whistle. Munster have eyes on 1 game and it's not the Heineken Cup it's the Magners League.

 

[Charles]

Excuse me? What is this tripe you proclaim?

Somehow I knew you'd comment on that. I'm more interested on what you have to say about the french after I have successfuly proved you wrong.

 

[Teh Mite]

Somehow I knew you'd comment on that. I'm more interested on what you have to say about the french after I have successfuly proved you wrong.

As I stated above Charles, if you have to take the personal comments route when all what was occurring was a debate, I won't give you the time of day. Believe whatever you want.

Enjoy your little victory (let's pretend for went on for ages and save everyone some time). I'm sure you earned it.

As a rule of thumb, pay no attention to what Neil Francis, David Kelly or George Hook say. Francis and Hook are full of **** while Kelly is a soccer writer who is only covering rugby because Irish soccer players now refuse to deal with him. The only pundits/journalists in Ireland worth their salt are Peter O'Reilly, Brendan Fanning, Emmett Byrne, Liam Toland, Matt Williams and Gerry Thornley. On occasion Hugh Farrelly can get really good info while the Examiner rugby writers are decent.

Ah, if I'd been aware of this in the first place! :lol:

 

[Charles]

As I stated above Charles, if you have to take the personal comments route when all what was occurring was a debate, I won't give you the time of day. Believe whatever you want.

Enjoy your little victory (let's pretend for went on for ages and save everyone some time). I'm sure you earned it.

Really? Really? I'm the one taking it personal? The irony is killing me...

********. Sport is about rivalries. Leinster and Munster don't play to represent Ireland. Saints and Tigers don't play to represent England. If you believe otherwise you're an idiot who buys into the Sky Sports tabloid bullshit.

If you're capable of thinking that, I sorry to say you're incapable of getting it.

you don't get it.

Come on then you patronising poor mans Londoner Dubliner (hey, if we're going to get personal)

(completely out of the blue as no one was having a go at you and despite all your effots the discussion was perfectly civil)

As for the debate, what I saw was people having a reasonable discussion with you in the middle throwing your toys out of the pram and insulting people.

A debate is when you counter someone's argument with another argument. Like when you told me that no french fan would cheer for another french team and I proved you that yes, indeed, it does happen. Do you have any argument to oppose to that?

I don't think my little jabs would harm you, you mut have a much thicker skin seeing the way you allow yourself to respond to people's post.


Now you will surely accuse me of being a lame no-life, for taking all this time to respond to you about something you didn't really care for in the first place.

Yes I will, thank you very much. Try to not throw a tantrum next time people refuse to agree with your ridiculous and oversimplistic views. You're a mod afterall, it wouldn't do.