Heineken Cup 1/4F - Ulster v Saracens

[Big Ewis]

fair enough Saffycen, that sounds very realistic. But for suuuuuuure he'll never play for England again. And I hate to pick on Sarries too much on this thread, but Ashton neither. Their backline finally looks (and is) formidable. As an outsider let me say that any time we played England in the recent past before 2014, I'd never fear that backline. I was wary of Tuilagi, but that's it really. Even Brown, on the wing, I wasn't threatened at all.

Right now with 9. Care 10. Farrell 11. Yarde 12. Twelvetrees 13. Tuilagi/Burrell 14. Wade 15. Brown (23.Tuilagi/Burrell) we've got more than a strong pack to worry about. That backline is formidable in its own right.

Anyways: let's see what Goode and Ashton and the Saracens produce this weekend. I feel Farrell is going to have a big game. He's matured well this whole time and fine-tuned his game and although still young he can step up for big games.

EDIT:

Fair enough if you disagree Ewis - for my money, he has a sufficient breaking game at club level, and his positioning and playmaking are hugely standout qualities that are a massive part of what makes Sarries tick. He earned his shot at an England shirt by being one of the best full-backs in England. As Saffycen says, the presence of Goode makes dominating Sarries territorialy difficult.

Well it's not a matter of opinion. I'm either right or wrong. But I think Saffycen said it all in that post.
As for "he was picked to play for England" well that alone doesn't mean much. I mean no offense but like I said England weren't exactly frightening with their backline during those recent years. Like, I'd pick Delon Armittage with my eyes closed over Goode...I don't know that England had really good FB's to choose from. In fact, for me it was a bit telling of England's 15 situation if that's the guy they picked for int'l representation !...

 

[TheSaffycen]

Go to 2.35 and you see Goode stepping through the Wasps defence, he will try this at intl' level and the players are just faster and better organised. He is a good club operator but physically can't make the same breaks at intl' set up.

 

[Big Ewis]

nice play.

 

[Peat]

Full-back has been one of England's stronger suits for the last while. Goode has been as good in the Premiership as Armitage, Brown and Foden, more or less.

 

[Amiga500]

Well... given the way we made the inept Blues look like world beaters, I'm fearful it could be a long afternoon on the terrace.

But, where there is Fez, there is hope.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Well I did this for the Clermont thread so I might as well do one for a team I actually know
Remember this is incredibly biased
1. Vunipola (Very good in the loose and his handling Is very good for a prop, might be punished at scrum time by Afoa)
2. Brits (Been possibly the best import ever brought into the prem, he has everything amazing in the loose and in set piece)
3. Stevens (Last year for us as he is moving to the sharks, good at breakdown but can be smashed at scrum time)
4. Borthwick (Last time we played Ulster borthwick completely ruined their lineout making it an easy win)
5. Kruis (Big powerful guy, hits hard and can run well with the ball, good lineout operator)
6. Brown (Scotland captain is great over the ball and can tackle anyone, will need a big game from him)
7. Burger (NABASBOER !!! Mental, Brave and Doesn't give a **** the ultimate tackler who just doesn't stop !!)
8. Vuniopla (England's most destructive ball carrier and has a great offload in him)
9. Wigglesworth (Great kicking game and brilliant passer, does what a scrum half should)
10. Farrell (Hopefully takes his 6 nations form to Sarries and we can cause real damage, kicks his goals and defends well)
11. Strettle (Solid player for us, good pace and has been scoring tries for fun this year)
12. Barritt (Our defensive general, no-one gets past him but lacks attacking threat)
13. Bosch (A brilliant all round player, also has a great boot on him for long range penalties)
14. Ashton (Not the player who lit the world on fire but still has good pace and finishing ability, runs good lines of our 10)
15. Goode (Lacks pace, but has a great kicking game and handling, one-on-one tackling can be poor)

16. George (Another like Brits, just bigger and more powerful without the dynamism)
17. Barrington (Competent scrummager and player nothing flashy but does his job)
18. Johnstone (Big lump who isn't as destructive in the scrum as he probably should be)
19. Botha (Big hitter and runner, good impact player but lacks technical ability)
20. Wray (Another big hitter and runner, helps our carrying and has good pace on him if given space)
21. De Cock (Will add pace late on, very good kicker and running threat)
22. Hodgson (Great passer and kicker, can control the game when brought on adds attacking threat)
23. Taylor/Wyles (both can play across the backline and our experienced in the HC, great options to have)

Anyone care to do a Ulster One ?

 

[collace]

I'll maybe do one when the team is named but not until then because I would have a hard time predicting our pack. The backline picks itself:
9: Pienaar
10: Jackson
11: Trimble
12: Marshall
13: Cave
14: Bowe
15: Payne

Up front it gets a bit more complicated as we have huge decisions in the second and back rows. I would be tempted to pick this pack:
1: Court
2: Best
3: Afoa
4: Muller
5: Henderson
6: Diack
7: Henry
8: Wilson

That means leaving out Touhy, Ferris, Williams, Doyle out of the starting lineup. I think this is a big game too soon for Ferris and Touhy while Williams has destructive capabilities but is always a penalty waiting to happen. We need tight discipline in this game and Williams doesn't offer that. It would also mean that Ferris and Williams can home on after an hour and (hopefully) cause some havoc.

It will be interesting to see what Anescombe goes for.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I agree that it might be too soon for Ferris but you need to have more carrying power as that was the struggle when we last played. Henderson made an impact off the bench and you looked so much better. I would play Williams,Henry,Wilson as it gives you carrying and can stop our forwards with Henry and Wilson.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Saracens Name team to face Ulster
1. M.Vunipola
2. Brits
3. Johnston
4. Borthwick
5. Botha
6. B.Vunipola
7. Burger
8. Joubert
9. Wigglesworth
10. Farrell
11. Strettle
12. Barritt
13. Taylor
14. Ashton
15. Goode
Replacements 16.George 17.Barrington 18.Stevens 19.Sheriff 20.Brown 21.De Cock 22.Hodgson 23. Wyles

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

​Ulster XV and replacements to face Saracens, Heineken Cup Quarter-Final, Ravenhill, Saturday 5th April (kick off 18:30) (15-9): J Payne, A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, T Bowe, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Wilson, N Williams, C Henry; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, R Lutton, I Henderson, S Ferris, R Diack, P Marshall, C Gilroy.

Henderson, Ferris, Diack, Gilroy.. That's some impact from the bench..

 

[Big Ewis]

so both Vunipolas starting, and Billy V back then, but at no.6.
Question: why are teams (Scotland, Saracens) so notably reluctant to use Kelly Brown this year in particular ? For me he's an outright starter no matter what. For Scotland it's because that Aussie coach had Down syndrome, but for the Sarries I see him off the bench often..

 

[TheSaffycen]

Question: why are teams (Scotland, Saracens) so notably reluctant to use Kelly Brown this year in particular ? For me he's an outright starter no matter what. For Scotland it's because that Aussie coach had Down syndrome, but for the Sarries I see him off the bench often..

Because if you have Billy Vunipola and Burger in the back row you need Joubert as the 3rd lineout option. I personally would have started 6.Brown 7.Burger 8.Vunipola but i'm not the coach. Brown has a lot of pace so he does make a good carrying impact off the bench which they might use at the 55th-60th minute mark, and his versatility of playing anywhere in the back row.
Also when Vunipola has a 6 on his shirt it's like when picamoles does, he is an 8-he packs down at 8- and plays like one but with a 6 on his back. Seems stupid too me. I guess the only thing that will change is that Joubert will receive long kicks down field with the full back and not Billy.

 

[Big Ewis]

right...well it's a shame. I'd rather have Brown play a majority and start rather than just merely bringing him in as a 20-min substitute late in a game. He's relentless, carries, defends like a motherfkr, battles hard in those rucks, and he's got very good mobility and pace for a 1m93/111kg monster.

 

[TheSaffycen]

defends like a motherfkr, battles hard in those rucks, and he's got very good mobility and pace

Problem for him is that Jaques Burger is a better beast than he is. I rate Burger so highly and if we win he will have to have a great game, Burger broke the premiership record for tackles in a game after making 36! in a game against Exeter

 

[Big Ewis]

thirty-six ?!!! fkkkk...
well the Saracens are definitely one tough fight up front, I remember from both matches vs Toulouse...I really thought we'd lose that first one in Wembley, didn't think we'd hold on to that 1-point lead late. Was more surprised and a bit relieved at the end of that than actually happy.

 

[TheSaffycen]

thirty-six ?!!! fkkkk...
well the Saracens are definitely one tough fight up front, I remember from both matches vs Toulouse...I really thought we'd lose that first one in Wembley, didn't think we'd hold on to that 1-point lead late. Was more surprised and a bit relieved at the end of that than actually happy.

It was a weird one because we were lucky that McAlister missed some kicks(hit the post if I remember correctly) and had a pretty terrible game. And where unlucky because I felt we should have got more out of the ref and Farrell missed a kick by like 1 INCH !!!! but Toulouse definitely deserved it <_<

 

[munstermuffin]

Must say tat Saracens team shouldn't frighten Ulster and well more I look more I see a 10+ point win for the Red Hand Province

 

[goodNumber10]

it's because that Aussie coach had Down syndrome,

Guilty LOL!!!

I literally spat tea over my monitor!

 

[TheSaffycen]

Well I must admit without Kruis and Bosch we look pretty poor, hopefully we show a good account of ourselves and I can see us winning still. Pienaar will shower us with long kicks but I don't mind as we are the best team kick and chase team. If Farrell keeps playing like he has recently he can definitely cause some problems for sure, Ulster's midfield doesn't scare me as they are both just straight running big guys who Barritt and Taylor should take care of. The rest of the team looks very dangerous too me though.

 

[ruggabee]

Looking at the players available I would have gone for an Ulster win but the way they played last weekend against Cardiff fills me with a bit of doubt. I mean maybe Pienaar's presence is that vital to Ulster's performances. I don't know. If so, that gives a bit of hope for tomorrow. But yea, the rep that those Ulster players have built for themselves would make you think they'd win and with Pienaar back maybe last weekend will just be remembered as a partial result of his absence. It's a home game too. Man I'm so used to having some form of rugby to watch on a Friday *twiddles thumbs* Hurry up Saturday!!!