Heineken Cup 1/4F - Toulon v Leinster

[Leonormous Boozer]

Breakdown and line out. Repeat semis, and a repeat final I think, different result in Cardiff though.

 

[lynam1104]

I thought Reddan did well and was better than most in blue today. As you said the errors hurt but until game was already over Leinster never looked serious about threatening the line

He was good in the 1st half, but he was really sloppy in the 2nd certainly partly down to Toulons power up front

 

[munstermuffin]

Breakdown and line out. Repeat semis, and a repeat final I think, different result in Cardiff though.

You never know We might do enough in Marseille and have the pack to compete. I'd agree we'd have to be at our very best but fact it's not in Toulon may be small factor

 

[munstermuffin]

He was good in the 1st half, but he was really sloppy in the 2nd certainly partly down to Toulons power up front

I'd agree but as you say his protection was sloppy too and errors were all over today for Leinster.
Like I know some will slam MOC not using Madigan earlier if not from start but lads Madigan has lost something from last year. He's just gone back a step so hopefully he can regain that too

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You never know We might do enough in Marseille and have the pack to compete. I'd agree we'd have to be at our very best but fact it's not in Toulon may be small factor

I hope so, Munster's backrow will be a lot better than Leinster's were today. I can see them exploiting Munster big time in the backs though.

Heaslip and the centres were beyond **** today.

 

[lynam1104]

I'd agree but as you say his protection was sloppy too and errors were all over today for Leinster.
Like I know some will slam MOC not using Madigan earlier if not from start but lads Madigan has lost something from last year. He's just gone back a step so hopefully he can regain that too

I think part of why Madigan has gone back is MOC lack of trust in him, from all accounts he was going very well all month and Gopperth had 8 minuets yet when it comes to the big game Gopperth is given the reins. I'm not trying to blame MOC obviously the players on the pitch didn't do what they needed.

 

[Groundhog]

Leinster seriously lacking an enforcer in the second or back row. Armitage wouldn't have destroyed Leinster like he did if anyone was willing to fly in and smash him before he could set over the ball properly. I don't expect Munster to suffer in the same way with the likes of O'Mahony, Foley, Coughlan and headcases like that in the pack. If they beat us it will be through the centre, but I thought Drico was anonymous today.
Really poor Leinster performance, they never really looked like winning it, even at half-time. They really miss Sean O'Brien.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I don't think Reddan did badly I think Barnes' let everyone go off their feet at the breakdown making it very hard for him to get the ball out quickly, stopping Leinster's game plan

I think part of why Madigan has gone back is MOC lack of trust in him, from all accounts he was going very well all month and Gopperth had 8 minuets yet when it comes to the big game Gopperth is given the reins. I'm not trying to blame MOC obviously the players on the pitch didn't do what they needed.

It's a hard one as everyone agreed at the time they would have picked Gopperth.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think part of why Madigan has gone back is MOC lack of trust in him, from all accounts he was going very well all month and Gopperth had 8 minuets yet when it comes to the big game Gopperth is given the reins. I'm not trying to blame MOC obviously the players on the pitch didn't do what they needed.

@Cmac as I said a lot of blame will be on Leinsters errors. I'd agree they were **** at centre but all over the missed tackle, the handling and poor passing at times was too much. But I'd fancy us at breakdown but in maul too. I think we have a better pack than Leinster and ye tried 3 mauls got a try and 2 pens but surprisingly didn't keep at it.

@lynam I'd agree with that and maybe it is due to MOCs lack of trust. But he's certainly not progressed from last season and while you'll say he was going well all month I'd agree but say it still wasn't anything special

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah another thing was that although Armitage was unreal, he did not support his weight on those steals. Using your knees on the tackled player is considered off your feet, and I'd expect a better referee to catch that. That said he beat the Leinster back row to every ball despite being the shape of a sausage and deserved his rewards.

 

[Big Ewis]

I won't ever reconsider my position on the whole "England should've somehow kept Steffon Armitage" discussion. Today wasn't even an exception, just a high of that reality. There's absolutely no way in England all those years, and current era included, Armitage doesn't find a starting spot in any of those 3 third row places.
Now that that's out of the way:

very happy to see Toulon wasn't ever really threatened score-wise and never looked back. I'd have predicted a far tighter game. In fact at the very start, when they were showing the starting lineups again for both sides, I thought "hhmm...right now I think I'd actually bet for Leinster".
When I saw Wilko leave so early I felt a bit of that Ulster grief from yesterday, like, shhit we're doomed from the very start, as Wilko is that important to their game, plus the goal kicking, and his presence alone even if he's not on-form on the day is an enormous confidence-bringer.

Thank God Matt Giteau is an absolute utility-back: fkn SH FH wing center fullback, no problem. At all. He's probably better than the guy you've got there right now in fact. I'd like me 5 or 6 Giteaus on my team when cloning is sorted and turns legal.

MASS was a huge advantage for Toulon. Bastareaud and his 120 kg in the rucks and on that defense-fixing assist to Mitchell for the second score. Chiocci and his tighthead-type weight at LH for the first try all by himself, needed every one of those 120kg to make a difference and put +7 on the score-board. Saffas Rossow and Juan Smith and their huge ball carrying and impact in the rucks. Pure power, not a thing to be refused in this sport.
Even Fresia was looking good until that over-enthusiastic knuckle-head (literally) play.

Mermoz was surprisingly good, the guy is definitively on-form again in 2014.
Lobbe was discreet, but he did throw that spot-on waaaaay wide pass for the second score. Brilliant initiative and precision, he sparked those next 7 points.
Second rower Suta was pretty bad today, and Ali Williams or Botha would have added some fantastic punch to Toulon's surge and power...
RCT Hookers were very meh today though...

But Toulon have GOT to finish off those huge opportunities they so powerfully create for themselves. If I were supporting the opposite team I'd think God was on our side. They were good, but have to step it up next time against Munster. When I saw those 2 huge occasions in the first 10min, I almost said to myself "that's it, there goes the match".
At this level, the other team learns from those mistakes, adapts, tightens pertinently the defense and ups the aggressiveness and at times it turns out those innocent little starting 10 minutes were one team's very salvation.

But Armitage was hitting penalties from 120m, the forwards were RE-LENT-LESS, and Mayol and all of France have something big to cheer about.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Well done Toulon. They have a gem in Steffon Armitage.

For Leinster, where to start? Poor at the breakdown, sloppy at the lineout and porous in defence. They aren't coaching issues, rather poor execution by the players on the field. Matt O'Connor can't make the tackles for them. He can however give the team a coherent attacking game plan. Once again, that was lacking. Leinster's tactics all season have been to smash through their opponents. If that doesn't work, try again. The subtlety Joe Schmidt brought to the side has gone. The accuracy of passing has diminished. I think O'Connor has done a pretty good job but he needs to brush up on that area for the rest of the season.

Onwards and hopefully upwards. There's still a Pro12 crown to defend.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Lobbe was discreet, but he did throw that spot-on waaaaay wide pass for the second score. Brilliant initiative and precision, he sparked those next 7 points.
Second rower Suta was pretty bad today, and Ali Williams or Botha would have added some fantastic punch to Toulon's surge and power...
RCT Hookers were very meh today though...

The twin fetchers in Armitage and Lobbe were outstanding, Leinster didn't have one ruck or phase in which the ball wasn't slowed down or turned over. Smith at 6 was brilliant in the loose and just ran through men at ease with Russouw, Suta was still good but just didn't look as impressive as the others. Their scrum has too improve against Munster, as they will just keep it with the forwards, Toulon will have to make the game as open as it was today. I thought Burden was a good runner today and did pretty well as a whole.

 

[jaunard06]

Very entertaining match indeed, between "Ireland's B team" and Toulon's B team (after half an hour and several injuries, and including the whole ***ular missing second row), unluckily for them Leinster fell on the team that came to Clermont not so long ago to win and should have won, would have their line out work more effectively.

Tonight the Toulonnais did almost everything well except some lack of discipline in the rucks but that was also the price to a few excellent tunrovers by the "twins", Bastareaud and Steffon Armitage.
There was too much power and momentum on Toulon's side for the Irish to compete, and as ASM yesterday, would RCT have shown a little bit more coherence there should have been at least one more try for them.

Toulon had a difficult year like ASM as Top14 become more and more tight and competitive, but both teams are in semis, and have a real opportunity to reach the final again.

To be noticed, at the 19th minute there is exactly the same scrum than the one that occured between Leicester and ASM at the 76th minute, where ASM got the ball on Leicester introduction but the game was stopped by the ref because an english front row player stood up. Here the exact same thing happened and the player standing up was sanctioned.

 

[Big Ewis]

in Ireland's defense, it's almost comforting to see an Irish side halted and not be able to execute. There's definitely an Irish dominance in Europe so far in 2014, and that tactical Irish style was finally exposed today as they met bigger better. Ulster literally a point away from a historic exploit, Munster monstrously eating up a poor Toulouse side, Ireland with the ***le some time ago after almost getting the All-Blacks...if there was a growing complex building, this is a nice big *STOP* !!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really hope that the mercenaries don't win the HEC - I'd even want sarries over this lot.

 

[jaunard06]

Leinster could easily put out a 15 of only Irish players against Toulon's legion of mercenaries.

Well, Toulon's "legion of mercenaries" easily put 15 points to oh-the-so-traditional-and respectable-irish-team-made-only-of-players-bred-in-less-than-a-mile-around-the-stadium.

Note, you deserved it.

 

[big ginger 8]

in Ireland's defense, it's almost comforting to see an Irish side halted and not be able to execute. There's definitely an Irish dominance in Europe so far in 2014, and that tactical Irish style was finally exposed today as they met bigger better. Ulster literally a point away from a historic exploit, Munster monstrously eating up a poor Toulouse side, Ireland with the ***le some time ago after almost getting the All-Blacks...if there was a growing complex building, this is a nice big *STOP* !!

That was not an Irish tactical style, that was attempting to play basically Leicster's style.

 

[Big Ewis]

To be noticed, at the 19th minute there is exactly the same scrum than the one that occured between Leicester and ASM at the 76th minute, where ASM got the ball on Leicester introduction but the game was stopped by the ref because an english front row player stood up. Here the exact same thing happened and the player standing up was sanctioned.

agreed, forgot to post about that. Domingo didn't get the calls against the Tigers and ASM were on the bad end of the calls. Here, Chiocci vs Ross was refereed very dismissively. Like they didn't have time to lose and oh look Chiocci's up let's give Leinster a penalty. Mike Ross was making absolutely no effort to stay horizontal either and if anything was responsible for the scrum moving up at least once if not more. Chiocci was not moving up on his own momentum obviously, he wasn't trying that tactic.
I'm not sold on Mike Ross and his scrummaging quite yet, I know he's getting lots of praise as of 2014 and with the new rules (that really do seem to favor larger specimens that struggled previously) but Chiocci was not *obviously* popping up. It's hard to tell, but Ross is definitely making no effort to stay put himself.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well, Toulon's "legion of mercenaries" easily put 15 points to oh-the-so-traditional-and respectable-irish-team-made-only-of-players-bred-in-less-than-a-mile-around-the-stadium.

Note, you deserved it.

I still think they are a bunch of mercenaries, but they were the better side today. I do thin it's sad for European rugby that the 'throw cash at the problem until it goes away' approach appears to be winning out, but I'm not going to sulk. We were a long way off the pace today.