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RoyalBlueStuey
Guest
Well if we are going to get into a "You started it" debate which hemisphere spent the first week of the tournament gloating like pigs in the proverbial?
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Well if we are going to get into a "You started it" debate which hemisphere spent the first week of the tournament gloating like pigs in the proverbial?
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Brodizzle
Guest
Well if we are going to get into a "You started it" debate which hemisphere spent the first week of the tournament gloating like pigs in the proverbial?
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The 'choking' tag originates from long before the start of the tournament....
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C A Iversen
Guest
Well if we are going to get into a "You started it" debate which hemisphere spent the first week of the tournament gloating like pigs in the proverbial?
[/b][/quote]
Nice generalisation of a whole hemisphere. "Gloating" about what? I can't see where there was anything to gloat about and most of the SH posters weren't gloating. It was a minority, which everyone else gets punished for.
Where I've alluded to idiot SH posters ruining it for the rest of us, no-one from up north has alluded to their part of the world going too far. Where we are ready to say "Hey we've got idiots down here who've wound things up", no-one has said that up there. We have guys like Chiro who deserve yours AND our scorn for their ridiculous behaviour.
No-one from down south are saying the NH posters are all wrong. Those who've been politely rubbing our noses in have been by most accepted. Some though, have been down-right rude.
Thats the real problem, in all this quarter-final aftermath, it's all been 100% SH bad guys, and thats complete bull.
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ikvat
Guest
Every 2 months, we have the same crap talks about football.
Reff are an element of this game like wind and rain are, that's all.
The next time it could be in your favour.
Reff are an element of this game like wind and rain are, that's all.
The next time it could be in your favour.
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C A Iversen
Guest
That'd be great. It'd be a chance to show that we can be good winners. Which would be a wonderful thing to show some people how to do, lol.
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RoyalBlueStuey
Guest
That is entirely a fair comment and so if I've been a bit ott I apologise but it does seem that a fair number of this idiot minority have gotten themselves jobs in the antipodean media*. As a consequence it set you up for a huge fall if your teams didn't walk the walk.
*This isn't a new problem however...remember 2003 : "This just in....England are a load of arrogant, disrespectful, over-weight, over-rated whinging pommes....We advise everyone go down to their hotel and keep them awake the night before the game"
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C A Iversen
Guest
Yep, agreed and for the record Stuey, I wan't meaning you. the level you were talking was just banter, I'm not that precious about things, lol!
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RoyalBlueStuey
Guest
It was a fair comment though.
99% of the time your cocky, boorish media types get away with it 'cause your teams to the business....when they screw up though it's open season. I'd say ultimately it's that lot that our gloats are aimed at.
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Macsen
Guest
When I first saw this headline at Guardian Sport I thought it was about English fans' reaction to beating Australia. 
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Klarkash-ton
Guest
When I first saw this headline at Guardian Sport I thought it was about English fans' reaction to beating Australia.
[/b]
lol
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Gay-Guy
Guest
Great article by Naas Botha who is very respected.
Yeah the ref was inexperienced and was not really cut out for this level at this stage in his career. Though in fairness to him he was only there because ALL the Southern Hemisphee refs at the tournament were having shocking tournaments! Paddy O'Brien was not happy with the usually reliable southern hemisphere refs who for some very strange reason were calling all sorts of strange decisions at the cup and had to give them linesmen jobs. I'm sure the ref for the NZ/France game was probably EXPECTING a linesmens job at the France/NZ game and was probably freaking out that he got such a tough game.....he probably was maybe ready for the Agies/Scots game instead. So spare a thought for the young guy who was only there because the usual refs were all losing the plot.
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klinthicum
Guest
The New Zealand outcry at the refereeing is amazing. Barnes missed some forward passes, but missed more by New Zealand. One that would of given the French a scrum about 10 metres in front of the AB posts and certainly another when Ali Williams almost scored.
The French are very passionate and often unreasonable people, but I doubt they would have overreacted to the extent of the Kiwis if they had lost. Death threats, outcries by the foreign minister, even trying to trample the credibility and objectivity of wikipedia.
I think we now know why the ref's have been so biased towards the All Blacks in recent years, ie stuart dickenson, particularly when playing in New Zealand. An entire nation will be "after them" for every call they make against the ABs.
New Zealand has provided the world with great rugby, but the IRB should consider not having the World Cup there in 2011. Honestly, does anyone think it would be safe for the refs? Could they even check into a hotel w/o being harrassed by the staff?
The French are very passionate and often unreasonable people, but I doubt they would have overreacted to the extent of the Kiwis if they had lost. Death threats, outcries by the foreign minister, even trying to trample the credibility and objectivity of wikipedia.
I think we now know why the ref's have been so biased towards the All Blacks in recent years, ie stuart dickenson, particularly when playing in New Zealand. An entire nation will be "after them" for every call they make against the ABs.
New Zealand has provided the world with great rugby, but the IRB should consider not having the World Cup there in 2011. Honestly, does anyone think it would be safe for the refs? Could they even check into a hotel w/o being harrassed by the staff?
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Will
Guest
NZ fans should stop going on about the referee. It gets boring very quickly. One forward pass does not make or break an entire tournament. NZ had most of the possession and did very little with it. Fact. France meanwhile were making tackles all over the park and running their little hearts out.
Maybe that's what it all boils down to. A genuine lack of heart.*
But it's easier to complain about the ref. It means you don't have to look too close to home for the answer.
However we know better. We know that the NZ fans are going to be carrying this around with them on their shoulders for the next four years, and again should they fail to win the tournament again it will be someone else's fault. NZ fans need to get a grip of themselves. Their team has no divine right to win any tournament just because they show up and dance around and make faces at the beginning of every match. Being "the best team in the world" counts for nothing if you can't turn possession into points.
And don't even get me started on the yellow card. It was completely deserved.
*I say this fully in the knowledge that I am a supporter of a nation/team with bags of heart. Just lacking in the ability at the moment to really make any real use of it.....
Maybe that's what it all boils down to. A genuine lack of heart.*
But it's easier to complain about the ref. It means you don't have to look too close to home for the answer.
However we know better. We know that the NZ fans are going to be carrying this around with them on their shoulders for the next four years, and again should they fail to win the tournament again it will be someone else's fault. NZ fans need to get a grip of themselves. Their team has no divine right to win any tournament just because they show up and dance around and make faces at the beginning of every match. Being "the best team in the world" counts for nothing if you can't turn possession into points.
And don't even get me started on the yellow card. It was completely deserved.
*I say this fully in the knowledge that I am a supporter of a nation/team with bags of heart. Just lacking in the ability at the moment to really make any real use of it.....
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C A Iversen
Guest
What a pile of horse-manure. Your whole post is full of it. Our foreign minister has not had an outcry. Seperating the wikipedia and death threats thing into two issues, when they were both one person. You have no idea of what your talking about.
Could they check into a hotel safely? Thats laughable. Absolute crap. Teams do every year, no problem. Your post is so over-the-top it's borderline deleteable.
As for the New Zealand forward passes. They're certainly not featuring on any replays or news bulletins, foreign or domestic that I've seen. They're mostly just made up in posts on this forum. They're might've been one.
Ironic you talk about safety in a country when your flag is listed as the USA.
For the record, I've constantly said we deserved to lose. I'm from NZ, but do I get noticed. Or Gay-Guys posts? Nooooo.
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jawmalawm24
Guest
Why can't refs be sighted? the ref that blew the whistle on Wales after saying they had enough time for a lineout was he ever punished? I dont think he was even after admitting he did make a bad call at the time.
It happens in other sports like that ref that caught the ball in Ozzy rules he ended up getting the sack. Also in League Nz ref Darryl Halligan was punished by having to train with the team he made the bad call on.
Why can't Rugby refs be punished in the same way? can anybody please tell me any good reason why they can't
I also think the death threats on Wayne Barnes are bloody stupid and people need to grow up. I can remember how I felt when I heard Tana Umaga received death threats from some idiot Irishman I was totally gutted it has no place in a sport like Rugby f****** idiots.
It happens in other sports like that ref that caught the ball in Ozzy rules he ended up getting the sack. Also in League Nz ref Darryl Halligan was punished by having to train with the team he made the bad call on.
Why can't Rugby refs be punished in the same way? can anybody please tell me any good reason why they can't
I also think the death threats on Wayne Barnes are bloody stupid and people need to grow up. I can remember how I felt when I heard Tana Umaga received death threats from some idiot Irishman I was totally gutted it has no place in a sport like Rugby f****** idiots.
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Dmx#1
Guest
I think that the reason why refs don't get sighted because people will complain about them NOT getting sighted. People will have their personal oppinions about refs and constantly complain (Some people like kiwis have the right to complain :%#%#: ) What's going to happen? Refs getting suspended for a few weeks? Woop dee doo, that's not going to change the damn result and i doubt barnes will be reffing our games in the near future.
Public Transportation+Angy Fans sounds like a good punishment
yeah people need to grow up if your gonna make a death threat at least follow through with it.
Tana Umaga is a legend so he gets a pass. Legends don't deserve that sort of treatment especially since it was a nice tackle.
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Klarkash-ton
Guest
Don't remember the first one you're referring too. the second? Well that would have been a penalty to NZ, as the ref was playing advantage for offside. Or maybe it was simply a knock-on, so a scrum? Can't remember. they would have been better off not playing the advantage in hindsight. Shame the ref played the advantage, perhaps he should have brought it back?
Death threats, yeah there's a lot of idiots out there but I think the only 'death threat' was the wikipedia defacement, which wasn't actually a death threat, just a very poorly considered joke that was pounced on by a gleeful press. I would be interested in evidence to the contrary. I read there is some guy in Florida called Al Nino that gets regular death threats due to the effects he has on the weather.
Outcries by the foreign minister? Didn't hear that one. got a link?
'trample the credibility and objectivity of wikipedia?' I'll give the benefit of the doubt and laugh at this good joke!
So you are criticising NZ for calling the ref biased, and in the next breath accusing other refs of bias by name? It's good that you want to bring yourself right down to the level of the people you're criticising.
yes, you're right! imagine the refs tossing and turning all night long, then feverishly logging on to wikipedia to see if someone has edited their entries.
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Phillipbul
Guest
I think the AB's have every reason to be angry. Bad refereeing always leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I can still remember when the AB's where awarded a dubious penalty in the FIFTH minute of injury time during the third test against the Boks in 1981. Not long ago our captain was told to go talk to his players while the Irish scored. How many high tackles where missed in the SA v Tonga game. Just a few examples of many.
What should happen is that they should ***** & moan about it for a long time all the while remembering that they simply weren't good enough to beat France. What they certainly shouldn't do is believe that if it wasn't for one forward pass that they would have won the tournament. To think that they are better than all the other teams by a margin is simply untrue. That is the sad fact.
The AB's haven't had the opportunity to play a full strength bok team this year. The closest measure is the totally lopsided super 14 and we all know what happened there. Man for man, I think the boks have a team full of players of which at least 7 is equal to if not better than the best in their positions in the world. That doesn't mean that the other 8 are AB's. Far from it.
Sure I'm gonna be miffed if we choke like the AB's did. Sure it's gonna hurt even more if the ref had anything to do with it. But, if we truly are the strongest team in the world right now ( as I believe we are) then we should not let that happen. The AB's for all their hype simply shouldn't have let it happen. Forward pass or not!
What should happen is that they should ***** & moan about it for a long time all the while remembering that they simply weren't good enough to beat France. What they certainly shouldn't do is believe that if it wasn't for one forward pass that they would have won the tournament. To think that they are better than all the other teams by a margin is simply untrue. That is the sad fact.
The AB's haven't had the opportunity to play a full strength bok team this year. The closest measure is the totally lopsided super 14 and we all know what happened there. Man for man, I think the boks have a team full of players of which at least 7 is equal to if not better than the best in their positions in the world. That doesn't mean that the other 8 are AB's. Far from it.
Sure I'm gonna be miffed if we choke like the AB's did. Sure it's gonna hurt even more if the ref had anything to do with it. But, if we truly are the strongest team in the world right now ( as I believe we are) then we should not let that happen. The AB's for all their hype simply shouldn't have let it happen. Forward pass or not!
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Niue
Guest
Just to say that the ref had a reasonable game between NZ and France, HOWEVER, he did get the pivotal decision in the game WRONG.
Clearly, the pass from Michalek was forward, and that, as it turned, cost NZ the match.
NZ did, though, contribute to their own demise, perhaps through over-confidence, leading to complacency, leading to a certain perplexity and lack of ideas when Plan A didn't succeed in crushing the french spirit.
Maybe, the NZs need to work on eradicating this problem of over-confidence from their game..?
Clearly, the pass from Michalek was forward, and that, as it turned, cost NZ the match.
NZ did, though, contribute to their own demise, perhaps through over-confidence, leading to complacency, leading to a certain perplexity and lack of ideas when Plan A didn't succeed in crushing the french spirit.
Maybe, the NZs need to work on eradicating this problem of over-confidence from their game..?
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Klarkash-ton
Guest
Overall, well said. But as far as I recall the penalty in 1981 was perfectly justified. Claasen earlier had unjustly accused Knight of 'diving' into a flour bomb, and when, thinking time was up on the clock, he called Doug Rollersons haircut 'girly' the ref had had enough and penalised him on the spot. Rollerson of course had not heard about chokers yet and slotted the penalty from long range.
The ref was the time keeper in those days and had stopped the clock earlier, so the NZ team could return fire at the low flying Cessna. The TV timekeeper was unaware of this, as he was taking cover at the time. The pilot of the Cessna was a BOSS operative (would that have been NIS by then?) pretending to be a Kiwi anti-apartheid protester, but obviously he was only targeting All Black players. His pathetic attempts at a kiwi accent are exposed in this interview:
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/node/2454
edit: sorry that link doesn't seem to work. I got it from the link below, so I have no idea why.
more information about these incredible match is here:
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/video/th...d-test-auckland
Salute!
sorry forgot to mention, as you know the only S14 game that mattered this year with the Hurricanes- Bulls match. forget the rest
