Get your bets in for the All Black Squad for the june tests

[Dizzy]

I'm a bit ****** with the Weepu selection as well, but I think I would have agreed with it if Weepu had done a good job in the world cup semi and final. But the fact he was very poor in those games makes me wonder were the faith in him is coming from, if we had lost the final the wrath of a nation would have come down on Weepu - he was 0 from 3 shots at goal.... Sure he kicked goals in the quarter final but we don't need him as 10 backup or goal kicking anymore, if anything his poor kicking in the last two games showed maybe he shouldn't be used as a kicker. All that time he was seen as a "big match" player and a clutch kicker when he got to the two big games of his carrier he faltered.

I'm sorry Larksea. This has been a thorn in my butt for some time.. It's "career" bro, not carrier.. lol..

On the Weepu selection, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Sure he hasn't been our outstanding halfback throughout the super rugby campaign but like I said in a previous post, Cory Jane was crap in Super Rugby last year and wasn't picked in the squad, but when he was given his injury cover chance in an All Black jersey he took it with flying colours and I'm absolutely glad he was picked for the World Cup.

Weepu hasn't been awful, his game has improved with each week and when he has come on it's evident that the Blues game has picked up. In an All Black environment it will only get better I promise you. Now, I do feel bad for Ellis, but I feel the selectors have justified their selection because Ellis ISN'T a playmaking player, he ISN'T as witty as Weepu when Weepu's game is on and if we're going to want Ellis over Weepu why not kick up a stink about Perenara getting the nod over Smith?...

And smartcooky, I don't know what you're talking about. When New Zealand are missing a few players we have other players who can step up to the mark, it's something other countries aren't as wealthy in. Irish are missing some key men and they will struggle alot without them. I'm thinking NZ will take a clean sweep here.

 

[Larksea]

I think the main problem with the weepu selection, and some other selections in the squad is the message it sends out to the players.

They are basically saying that being the best and having the right attitude is not enough. Plain luck or being at the right place at the right time helps just as much.

There are always a lot of unlucky guys come quad naming time. Elis, Messam, Perenara, Matt Todd, Jason Eaton and a few others top that list.

But the Weepu selection really sticks out because on form he's currently 6th or so best 9 in NZ.

players who work their arse off to be top of their game and best in their position only to get headed off by fat underachievers must feel robbed.

Maybe that's a bit blunt

 

[admartian]

I think the main problem with the weepu selection, and some other selections in the squad is the message it sends out to the players.

They are basically saying that being the best and having the right attitude is not enough. Plain luck or being at the right place at the right time helps just as much.

There are always a lot of unlucky guys come quad naming time. Elis, Messam, Perenara, Matt Todd, Jason Eaton and a few others top that list.

But the Weepu selection really sticks out because on form he's currently 6th or so best 9 in NZ.

players who work their arse off to be top of their game and best in their position only to get headed off by fat underachievers must feel robbed.

Maybe that's a bit blunt

I agree. While I understand Hansen and co's rationale in keeping a form player that more often than not has done well for the ABs despite form in SR or domestically; I think the message is more important.

To be honest, they could've still have had that 'senior' type of player in Ellis.

It just reeks of hope rather than form.

 

[Larksea]

it would even make sense if weepu was great at the world cup, sure he kicked well in the quater but he was shocking in the semi and final

and he wont be required to cover 10 or kick goals.

If anything this could have been a chance to give him a wakeup call. The message it delivers is that it's ok for him to turn up to super rugby looking like a fat woman and only have a bit part for his super team as long as he loses a few KG, has a haircut and shave and looks interested once the internationals come around

bloody great.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

On the Weepu selection, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Sure he hasn't been our outstanding halfback throughout the super rugby campaign but like I said in a previous post, Cory Jane was crap in Super Rugby last year and wasn't picked in the squad, but when he was given his injury cover chance in an All Black jersey he took it with flying colours and I'm absolutely glad he was picked for the World Cup.

The difference is that we couldn't really afford to take any other inexperienced players to the World Cup, we couldn't expect someone to be brought into the squad with little to no international experience for the biggest tournament in the world.

We're now at the start of a new cycle, where development is just as important as short term success.

 

[Aedaphon]

The difference is that we couldn't really afford to take any other inexperienced players to the World Cup, we couldn't expect someone to be brought into the squad with little to no international experience for the biggest tournament in the world.

We're now at the start of a new cycle, where development is just as important as short term success.

Well the selectors haven't treated it like that :lol:

Guess it's gonna be a couple of months until we get to see what Perenara and Taylor can do in an black jersey.

I'm also surprised how people are kicking up more of a fuss about the choices for half-back than the back three (although Weepu was always gonna spark some discussion)

As much as I love Gear it's just a crying shame not to include the top try scorer in Super XV so far.

 

[Darwin]

Well the selectors haven't treated it like that :lol:

Guess it's gonna be a couple of months until we get to see what Perenara and Taylor can do in an black jersey.

I'm also surprised how people are kicking up more of a fuss about the choices for half-back than the back three (although Weepu was always gonna spark some discussion)

As much as I love Gear it's just a crying shame not to include the top try scorer in Super XV so far.

I'm not at all surprised - they are very different situations in my opinion. At halfback they have chosen Weepu: an overweight, out off form player who was very poor in his most recent All Blacks matches, instead of the likes of Perenara, Kerr-Barlow, or Ellis, all who look to be in top form, with Ellis displaying solid form for the AB's last season.

While I personally would have included Taylor (over Gear) I don't think Taylor's omission is overly controversial. If they had picked an overweight, out of form wing/fullback ahead of him I'm sure their would have been more of an uproar, but this not the case. Smith and Savea have been in outstanding form this season, Guildford has been very impressive in recent weeks, Dagg has been a bit quiet but was outstanding at the RWC, while Gear has had a solid season for the Highlanders and is a specialist wing. Taylor has generally been outstanding with ball in hand this season, but he has been a bit inconsistent: his kicking game needs work, he decision making under pressure is a bit questionable, and he needs to improve his work-rate. If Taylor can improve in these areas he will push for inclusion for the end-of-year tour (or even the Rugby Championship squad).

 

[Dizzy]

The difference is that we couldn't really afford to take any other inexperienced players to the World Cup, we couldn't expect someone to be brought into the squad with little to no international experience for the biggest tournament in the world.

We're now at the start of a new cycle, where development is just as important as short term success.

Except, you're forgetting Cory Jane got his chance in the Tri Nations only because of injury cover. If it wasn't for him being included because of injury, Cory wouldn't have had the chance to show he was the most obvious candidate for that jersey come World Cup time, so your theory kinda doesn't apply.

And if you want to argue it does, then if you can allow someone to be brought into the squad for the World Cup based on past experiences in the Black jersey, then why can't you allow it to happen for a three test series.
You're willing to let it go for something more important, then kick up a fuss for a three test series?

I'm not at all surprised - they are very different situations in my opinion. At halfback they have chosen Weepu: an overweight, out off form player who was very poor in his most recent All Blacks matches,

Look, I know Weepu did a stupid kick pass that lead to the French try in the final, but other than that, ALL you guys are exaggerating when you say Weepu was "VERY POOR" in recent All Blacks matches.. Why? because he missed conversions and penalty kicks? Get the f*** outta here

Taylor has generally been outstanding with ball in hand this season, but he has been a bit inconsistent:

I don't agree, He has been scoring tries consistently, which is obvious as he is the leading try scorer of the tournament. And everytime he gets ball in hand he looks dangerous.

his kicking game needs work,

Considering he runs the ball back instead of kicking it I'm inclined to ask what you base this opinion on?.. When Taylor does kick the ball, it goes out and reaches atleast the halfway line, the guy has a super boot on him.

he decision making under pressure is a bit questionable,

Again, I don't know where you base this from as Taylor has never looked like he is crumbling under pressure, he has actually at times, made try saving tackles, got to his feet and pilfered the ball or gained a penalty in trying to pilfer, one of his great tries actually came from this act of play, where he made a tackle in the 22, got up pilfered the ball, passed the ball to his support player, and they ran to the other end of the field with Taylor gaining on them to recieve the final pass and run in the last 30 or so metres to score... So I'd say Andre Taylor is very cool headed.

and he needs to improve his work-rate.,

Now this I agree with, but only because Ben Smith leads everything when it comes to work rate, it would be absolutely hard to compete with his work rate.

 

[Darwin]

Dizzy, I think you need to take of your 'Hurricanes glasses' when assessing players

Look, I know Weepu did a stupid kick pass that lead to the French try in the final, but other than that, ALL you guys are exaggerating when you say Weepu was "VERY POOR" in recent All Blacks matches.. Why? because he missed conversions and penalty kicks? Get the f*** outta here

His defense was average, he offered nothing in attack, he was slow to breakdown, he deliberately slowed down any quick ball the All Blacks received (the Argentina match was a great example of this). The fact he kept Australia and France in the games with numerous missed kicks also didn't help! I was so relieved when the AB's brought Andy Ellis on in the final - I never thought I'd be so happy to see him!

I don't agree, He has been scoring tries consistently, which is obvious as he is the leading try scorer of the tournament. And everytime he gets ball in hand he looks dangerous.

Yes he has scored tries consistently, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has played consistently. Indeed there are several games when he scored tries even though he didn't really play that well (the Crusaders game was a great example of this). He started the season on fire, but has been a bit quieter recently - not too many shockers, but a number of average games in comparison to the stand-out games he can have.

Considering he runs the ball back instead of kicking it I'm inclined to ask what you base this opinion on?.. When Taylor does kick the ball, it goes out and reaches atleast the halfway line, the guy has a super boot on him.

Disagree. Taylor actually kicks the ball a lot - he is among the top 20 for kicks made in the entire competition (top 3 among fullbacks). He does have a big punt on him, but this can be a bit inaccurate at times. He tends to use the bomb far too much in my opinion, and often tends to under-kick these - I remember at least one of the Crusaders tries were scored as a result of a poor Taylor bomb. He certainly has good kicking skills, but having played most of his rugby on the wing he still needs to work on some of the skills essential for a fullback.

Again, I don't know where you base this from as Taylor has never looked like he is crumbling under pressure, he has actually at times, made try saving tackles, got to his feet and pilfered the ball or gained a penalty in trying to pilfer, one of his great tries actually came from this act of play, where he made a tackle in the 22, got up pilfered the ball, passed the ball to his support player, and they ran to the other end of the field with Taylor gaining on them to recieve the final pass and run in the last 30 or so metres to score... So I'd say Andre Taylor is very cool headed.

I didn't say he 'crumbled under pressure' - I suggested his decision making under pressure still needs work. I've been really impressed with his decision making on defense (in fact his defense in general has been impressive), but his decision making when receiving the ball at the back still needs work. Again this may come down to the fact he hasn't really had that much experience at 15, but he needs to continue to work on when to run, when to pass, or when to kick (at what type of kick to make). In many ways he is like Cullen with ball in hand - right down to the fact he forgets he has team-mates once he gets the ball! He generally only passes as a last resort (e.g. he has been partially tackled) - he can certainly work on this aspect of his game as a fullback.

Don't get me wrong - I really like Taylor, I just think he has areas to work on (like all players). Because of this I can understand why the selectors haven't included him in the squad - it wasn't an attack on Taylor, rather an explanation as to why I think the selectors didn't pick him.... As I said before, if I was picking the squad I personally would have picked him (despite the areas he needs to work on)!

 

[Dizzy]

Dizzy, I think you need to take of your 'Hurricanes glasses' when assessing players

Hahahaha, as I was writing my reply I was going to throw in "You could say I've got my Hurricanes shades on" now I wish I did lol..

His defense was average, he offered nothing in attack, he was slow to breakdown, he deliberately slowed down any quick ball the All Blacks received (the Argentina match was a great example of this). The fact he kept Australia and France in the games with numerous missed kicks also didn't help! I was so relieved when the AB's brought Andy Ellis on in the final - I never thought I'd be so happy to see him!

To be honest, I felt Aussie were well blown out of the water in the Semi. The Argentina game was just a poor game overall for us and the reason the French were kept in the game was hardly Weepu's fault. The entire squad looked like they were lacking

 

[Larksea]

Taylor looks like a very solid player, I dont really see issues with his kicking or defense

His non selection I think is really just a case of a bit of bad luck but really it's more about the strong competition he has got. Dagg is a done deal to regain his spot and Ben Smith I think is ahead of him mainly for three reasons.
1, Ben Smith has been there before, had one test and looked very good.
2, While Taylor has very much burst onto the scene this year he's been kinda average at super level for the last couple of years - Ben Smith has been in Brilliant form for like three years? Prob unlucky not to get selected ahead of Toeava.
3, workrate - we know the coaches love outside backs who are constantly in the game. Taylor is an absolute beast when it comes to injecting himself when his team has won a turnover but Ben Smith is always around the play constantly and for all the work he does he has a very low error rate.

Taylor just needs to be patient, another injury and he'' be in or if he's in the same form next year the selectors will have to give him a shot to see if he can be as good in test footy.

 

[Larksea]

weepu was 0 from 3 at goal in the final and handed the french the turnover (with the stupidest play I think any All Black made the entire world cup) they eventually scored their only points from. That's a 15 point turnaround?!!...

He had a very bad day, Stephen Donald was hung drawn and quartered for a lot less in a game that meant very little in 2010

Before the world cup I saw weepu as absolutely critical - I honestly saw him along side Carter, McCaw and some others as the key guys. But In the end we got through and won it without much +ve influence from any of our halfbacks at all. Going in Elis was the clear 3rd halfback but by the end he was the best of the three and did not get much gametime. 2011 world cup win was very much about the great all black pack and the best back three in the world with some credit going to Conrad Smiths defense in mid field and Stephen Donald holding firm in the most important 50min of rugby of his life.

Weepu was a total let down outside his goal kicking against Argentina, but we would have won that game anyway with Slade, Cruden or Donald Kicking.

 

[nickdnz]

Taylor looks like a very solid player, I dont really see issues with his kicking or defense
His non selection I think is really just a case of a bit of bad luck but really it's more about the strong competition he has got. Dagg is a done deal to regain his spot and Ben Smith I think is ahead of him mainly for three reasons.
1, Ben Smith has been there before, had one test and looked very good.
2, While Taylor has very much burst onto the scene this year he's been kinda average at super level for the last couple of years - Ben Smith has been in Brilliant form for like three years? Prob unlucky not to get selected ahead of Toeava.
3, workrate - we know the coaches love outside backs who are constantly in the game. Taylor is an absolute beast when it comes to injecting himself when his team has won a turnover but Ben Smith is always around the play constantly and for all the work he does he has a very low error rate.
Taylor just needs to be patient, another injury and he'' be in or if he's in the same form next year the selectors will have to give him a shot to see if he can be as good in test footy.

I like Ben Smith but I think you have a knack for exaggeration. In his one test match, he made several obvious errors including knocking on his first touch of the ball, missed a tackle on Robertson and failed to score a try from Mike Delany's cross kick. He didn't have a terrible game, but I don't think it's just luck that the selectors haven't selected him for a test match since.

His second All Blacks game was against the Barbarians, which he did manage to score an easy try on the end of a final pass from Cory Jane. However his defense was pretty average. he got burned on the outside by Drew Mitchell which lead to Habana's first try and was out of position for Bryan Habana's third try. So yeah, I wasn't overly suprised the AB coaching team have waited a while before he gets the recall.

As for Taylor being kinda average in Super Rugby the last few years, I think that's a little harsh. I was never a big fan of his untill this year, however he only play a handful of matches for the Hurricanes before this season and started even fewer. The two games he started last season while Gear was injured he was very impressive, breaking tackles at will (in fact I remember him absolutely demolishing Stephen Donald after break three other tackles during a 60m run).
I agree with workrate. I think Taylor needs to get himself a bit more involved, but that's my only criticism.

weepu was 0 from 3 at goal in the final and handed the french the turnover (with the stupidest play I think any All Black made the entire world cup) they eventually scored their only points from. That's a 15 point turnaround?!!...

He had a very bad day, Stephen Donald was hung drawn and quartered for a lot less in a game that meant very little in 2010

Before the world cup I saw weepu as absolutely critical - I honestly saw him along side Carter, McCaw and some others as the key guys. But In the end we got through and won it without much +ve influence from any of our halfbacks at all. Going in Elis was the clear 3rd halfback but by the end he was the best of the three and did not get much gametime. 2011 world cup win was very much about the great all black pack and the best back three in the world with some credit going to Conrad Smiths defense in mid field and Stephen Donald holding firm in the most important 50min of rugby of his life.

Weepu was a total let down outside his goal kicking against Argentina, but we would have won that game anyway with Slade, Cruden or Donald Kicking.

I think that one of the big problems with Weepu during the RWC is that he tried to be the main playmaker. I think that comes at the result of losing your first three 1st 5/8ths. If you look over the matches, he would almost grab the ball from the base of the ruck and then run himself into first receiver. I think next to Carter he will improve because he trusts his 1st 5/8th. Either way I generally think he's not much of a liability. I personally wouldn't have picked him in the team, but I don't think he's a big problem and on form he can read a game very well.

In terms of goal kicking, I think it's probably note worthy that he's not likely to be goalkicking, so missing three kicks in the RWC final isn't much of an issue. Stephen Donald has ALWAYS been criticised, it's not like everyone turned against him in the 2010 4th Wallabies Test, it's just he was always potty and that test was the final straw.

Anyway, I personally would have gone with Smith and Peranara as the form halfbacks, and if experience was needed than use Any Ellis who's been good for the Crusaders this season. I do think past All Blacks form should be rewarded and despite what people say I think Weepu is generally a very good player in form, however the total lack of professionalism when it comes to off season training and the fact that this isn't the first time he's been selected in the All Blacks on trust, makes me think it's an attitude issue that probably needs sorting. Right now I don't think he's living up to his potential.

 

[Darwin]

I like Ben Smith but I think you have a knack for exaggeration. In his one test match, he made several obvious errors including knocking on his first touch of the ball, missed a tackle on Robertson and failed to score a try from Mike Delany's cross kick. He didn't have a terrible game, but I don't think it's just luck that the selectors haven't selected him for a test match since.

His second All Blacks game was against the Barbarians, which he did manage to score an easy try on the end of a final pass from Cory Jane. However his defense was pretty average. he got burned on the outside by Drew Mitchell which lead to Habana's first try and was out of position for Bryan Habana's third try. So yeah, I wasn't overly suprised the AB coaching team have waited a while before he gets the recall.

As for Taylor being kinda average in Super Rugby the last few years, I think that's a little harsh. I was never a big fan of his untill this year, however he only play a handful of matches for the Hurricanes before this season and started even fewer. The two games he started last season while Gear was injured he was very impressive, breaking tackles at will (in fact I remember him absolutely demolishing Stephen Donald after break three other tackles during a 60m run).
I agree with workrate. I think Taylor needs to get himself a bit more involved, but that's my only criticism.

As a massive Ben smith fan (arguably the biggest Ben Smith fan) I agree Smith's introduction to test rugby wasn't that great. He looked a bit overwhelmed in my opinion. He didn't really take his chances - I'd say he was solid at best. He is a far better player now than he was back then though, and fully deserves his chance now (and should have been in the RWC squad last year too, but that is another story!).

I actually agree with Larksea though with respect to Taylor being average at Super Rugby for the last couple of seasons. Before this season he had played 15 matches (starting 13) - more than 'just a handful'. He got 5 games in 2009 (4 starts) and did nothing of note. He got much more of a chance last season (10 games, 9 starts), and had a couple of outstanding games (the Chiefs game in particular stands out), but also had a number of very poor games too. This season he has improved his consistency remarkably, but still has work to do in this area. When you compare that to Ben Smith who has played outstanding for Otago and the Highlanders for the last 3-4 seasons there really is no comparison in terms of consistency. Not saying it will be the only reason the AB's selectors opted for Smith over Taylor, but I do agree with Larksea that this would have been a contributing factor.

I think that one of the big problems with Weepu during the RWC is that he tried to be the main playmaker. I think that comes at the result of losing your first three 1st 5/8ths. If you look over the matches, he would almost grab the ball from the base of the ruck and then run himself into first receiver. I think next to Carter he will improve because he trusts his 1st 5/8th. Either way I generally think he's not much of a liability. I personally wouldn't have picked him in the team, but I don't think he's a big problem and on form he can read a game very well.

In terms of goal kicking, I think it's probably note worthy that he's not likely to be goalkicking, so missing three kicks in the RWC final isn't much of an issue. Stephen Donald has ALWAYS been criticised, it's not like everyone turned against him in the 2010 4th Wallabies Test, it's just he was always potty and that test was the final straw.

Anyway, I personally would have gone with Smith and Peranara as the form halfbacks, and if experience was needed than use Any Ellis who's been good for the Crusaders this season. I do think past All Blacks form should be rewarded and despite what people say I think Weepu is generally a very good player in form, however the total lack of professionalism when it comes to off season training and the fact that this isn't the first time he's been selected in the All Blacks on trust, makes me think it's an attitude issue that probably needs sorting. Right now I don't think he's living up to his potential.

Agree entirely with that analysis of Weepu, and like you would have gone for the same three halfbacks if I was picking the squad (Smith, Perenara, Ellis).

 

[Larksea]

well I think you also tend to exaggerate so maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. he did knock his first touch on but when he was tested again and again he had no problems. Overall I think he had a solid debut, and importantly hes a much better player now than he was then.

you say: "Stephen Donald has ALWAYS been criticised" but is that his fault or a fickle section of the NZ public who never gave him a chance and looked for every excuse to hang him out to dry even after he played an important role in winning some key test matches. in the end he proved all the haters wrong with his pretty much faultless 50min in that final. If the NZ public had got behind Donald from the start and not been so critical of him during times he struggled his test carrier would have been much different in my view. It would have been hard enough trying to fill the hardest job in NZ rugby (Dan the man Carters backup and the guy who runs opposition backline play in All Black training)

That game in 2010 was a perfect example, sure Donald did not have a great performance but in that last period he was on Brad Thorn missed an easy tackle that gave Aussie field position, from memory an AB prop (Afoa?) made a bad mistake and that clearing kick donald did make that he got so much crap for would have been a very good kick if Toeava had stayed in line with the defense and not tried to run up and tackle Beale 1 on 1 which he was never going to make. Then if you nit pick even more Kaino and another player missed the tackle on James when he scored. Fact is if he did make a couple of mistakes that lead to the loss he was clearly not the only one - yet he was the one to take all the blame in the eyes of most of the NZ public and media.

Yet Weepu has an even worse shocker in more than one game and he's somehow immune to backlash in many circles? He was lucky unlike donald in hong Kong that his team mates stood up and made up for those mistakes. Though I'm sure if we had lost that game the public would have found some way to dump it all on donald

 

[nickdnz]

well I think you also tend to exaggerate so maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. he did knock his first touch on but when he was tested again and again he had no problems. Overall I think he had a solid debut, and importantly hes a much better player now than he was then.

you say: "Stephen Donald has ALWAYS been criticised" but is that his fault or a fickle section of the NZ public who never gave him a chance and looked for every excuse to hang him out to dry even after he played an important role in winning some key test matches. in the end he proved all the haters wrong with his pretty much faultless 50min in that final. If the NZ public had got behind Donald from the start and not been so critical of him during times he struggled his test carrier would have been much different in my view. It would have been hard enough trying to fill the hardest job in NZ rugby (Dan the man Carters backup and the guy who runs opposition backline play in All Black training)

That game in 2010 was a perfect example, sure Donald did not have a great performance but in that last period he was on Brad Thorn missed an easy tackle that gave Aussie field position, from memory an AB prop (Afoa?) made a bad mistake and that clearing kick donald did make that he got so much crap for would have been a very good kick if Toeava had stayed in line with the defense and not tried to run up and tackle Beale 1 on 1 which he was never going to make. Then if you nit pick even more Kaino and another player missed the tackle on James when he scored. Fact is if he did make a couple of mistakes that lead to the loss he was clearly not the only one - yet he was the one to take all the blame in the eyes of most of the NZ public and media.

Yet Weepu has an even worse shocker in more than one game and he's somehow immune to backlash in many circles? He was lucky unlike donald in hong Kong that his team mates stood up and made up for those mistakes. Though I'm sure if we had lost that game the public would have found some way to dump it all on donald

Fine, let's nip this Stephen Donald thing in the bud. Near faultless? No. Not really. He was solid in the sense he didn't **** it all up. Did he do well? Not really, he did enough.

Everyone loves an amazing no look pass, especially when you run it three steps over the touchline, untouched by the opposition. And a 30m kick from out in front, which only barely misses the posts, does not a good player make. You are constantly under the impression that people just decided to dislike him. No. No amount of mob psychology makes four million people decide to dislike a player. I wasn't overly upset when he came on in the final despite the 100+ moans of the crowd, because he has relatively solid defense. With that being said his decision making has been poor in the past. You say people never gave him a chance, but he actually got plenty, and bar a couple of average performances, he's pretty much been shite. It's not a suprise that Donald is being called sh*t by Bath fans when players like Gopperth and Evans have succeeded.

 

[Larksea]

thanks for posting a perfect example of how people like you pick on everything remotely bad Donald ever did. Forget the fact that he made a number of critical tackles including the one that lead to the turnover that gave the All Blacks the final possession that won the match, or that he was basically the only AB to make a line break or that he did kick the winning points and if it was so easy why did weepu miss 3. And all coming off a training schedule of white bating on the waikato river.

Forget all that because he did what? that? That's nothing... What so some Donald hater went through every bit of his 50min on the park and found something that could resemble a mistake then made a fricken youtube video of it to make themselves feel better? Wow...

Thanks for helping me pove my point.

 

[nickdnz]

thanks for posting a perfect example of how people like you pick on everything remotely bad Donald ever did. Forget the fact that he made a number of critical tackles including the one that lead to the turnover that gave the All Blacks the final possession that won the match, or that he was basically the only AB to make a line break or that he did kick the winning points and if it was so easy why did weepu miss 3. And all coming off a training schedule of white bating on the waikato river.

Forget all that because he did what? that? That's nothing... What so some Donald hater went through every bit of his 50min on the park and found something that could resemble a mistake then made a fricken youtube video of it to make themselves feel better? Wow...

Thanks for helping me pove my point.

Haha, I love every player is fair game for criticism except for Donald. People generally find he's not a very good player, yet you seem to dismiss everything he does wrong and when people bring it up you cry hater. Are you related to Stephen Donald in any way? I have to know. Because you have to be either deluded or related to support Donald as much as you do. And in terms of Stephen Donald making the tackle for the turn over, Sonny Bill Williams did far more in that play, he helped with the tackle (as did Conrad Smith), before SBW got back to his feet and won the ball. Donald was the third man involved. Regardless, even if he did make the tackle, it was still hardly the redeeming game you desperately wish it was. It's sad you can't accept that Donald was just a mediocre international 10, especially when you now have a far superior Aaron Cruden in the Chiefs.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Haha, I love every player is fair game for criticism except for Donald. People generally find he's not a very good player, yet you seem to dismiss everything he does wrong and when people bring it up you cry hater. Are you related to Stephen Donald in any way? I have to know. Because you have to be either deluded or related to support Donald as much as you do. And in terms of Stephen Donald making the tackle for the turn over, Sonny Bill Williams did far more in that play, he helped with the tackle (as did Conrad Smith), before SBW got back to his feet and won the ball. Donald was the third man involved. Regardless, even if he did make the tackle, it was still hardly the redeeming game you desperately wish it was. It's sad you can accept that Donald was just a mediocre international 10, especially when you now have a far superior Aaron Cruden in the Chiefs.

I don't want to gang up on you Larksea but this has been gnawing at me as well. You used to do a fair bit of trumpeting about how great Donald was for the Chiefs/Waikato, and I assumed it was the usual provincial goggles being on (which I have firmly in place when I talk about Manawatu players), but you now have Cruden, who is playing a better season than Donald ever did and you don't even really acknowledge it. And before you blame Sweeney or any other inept 12 Donald had to play inside, and give SBW or the Chiefs forwards credit for Cruden's form this year, just bear in mind Cruden won ITM cup player of the year with Frankie Bryant outside him for most of the season and with one Super 15 starter in the pack (Crosswell).


As for the world cup final, people were so stoked with Donald because he didn't stuff up (which is what we were all expecting). He played well in a tough situation, but I still think we would have won if Cruden didn't get injured.

 

[austingtir]

Cruden has yet to prove ANYTHING at test level. Great at super15 though and certainly has potential provided hansen doesnt make some daft positional calls and put to much pressure on him defensively.

I think people are missing the whole picture here yes cruden has a great ability to attack the line and good enough vision... totally unproven in anyother way imo. I would pick donald anyday if I knew it was going to be a tight game with massive forwards running at the 10 channel.

He'll probably get a chance against the Irish which isnt going to tell us much either.