German Rugby

[Groundhog]

In a unique twist for procrastination, I'm going to translate some German, but not the German I should be translating for my degree. This is from the DRV (National RFU, the clubs aka Wild are repped by GFR?) on the situation and they seem ****** and a tad perplexed.

"Auf Seiten des DRV herrscht völliges Unverständnis über diesen Schritt der Nationalspieler. Diese Entscheidung drei Tage vor einem Länderspiel ist aus unserer Sicht nicht akzeptabel. Aus unserer Sicht ist auch die Begründung nicht nachvollziehbar, weil an vielen Stellen einfach falsch", stellt DRV-Präsident Klaus Blank fest. "Wir haben den Spielern für diese drei Länderspiele sehr gute Rahmenbedingungen sowie eine hervorragende medizinische und sportwissenschaftliche Betreuung zur Verfügung gestellt. Es gab keinen entscheidenden Wunsch der Mannschaft, die der DRV im Rahmen dieser Testspielserie nicht erfüllt hat. Die Führung des DRV steht darüber hinaus vor allem in den Personen des Vizepräsidenten Hans-Joachim Wallenwein sowie des Sportdirektors in regelmäßigem Kontakt mit Trainer und Mannschaft."

"On the part of the DRV there is a total lack of understanding for the steps taken by the national team players. This decision three days before a national game is unacceptable from our view. From our view the justification is incomprehensible, because in parts it's simply untrue" said DRV president Klaus Blank. "For these three national games the players have had very good conditions such as medical and sport science care made available to them. There was no agreed upon desire from the team that was left unfulfilled by the DRV for this test series. The leadership of the DRV, especially VP Hans Joachim Wallenwein plus the sport director is in regular contact with the coach and Team

"Ich bin umso mehr über diesen Schritt irritiert, weil es eine schriftliche Vereinbarung mit der GFR über die Verfügbarkeit ihrer Angestellten für die drei Testspiele gibt, die nun nicht eingehalten wird. Wir nehmen die Sorgen und Nöte der Spieler sehr ernst, und wir haben den Dialog mit der Mannschaft diesbezüglich gesucht. Allerdings ist uns hier das Heft des Handelns aus der Hand genommen worden, da durch die GFR als Arbeitgeber der Spieler Fakten geschaffen worden sind, die wir bis zum Samstag nicht mehr werden ausräumen können. Wir werden nun die bestmögliche Mannschaft zusammenstellen, die in diesem Spiel von 7er-Bundestrainer Vuyo Zangqa und Clemens von Grumbkow betreut wird. Natürlich muss der DRV im Anschluss an diese Maßnahme und in Hinblick auf die Länderspielserie der 15er im Frühjahr entscheiden, wie er mit der Situation umgeht."

I am all the more irritated by this step, because there is a written agreement with the GFR over the availability of their reps/employees for the three test games, that is simply not being adhered to. We take the concerns and hardship of the players seriously, and have as such sought contact with the team. Certainly the handling of the negotiations is getting out of hand, due to the GFR's role as the player's employer/ the GFR's framing of facts to their players as employers (tad confused at this bit), which cannot be solved before Saturday. We will assemble the best possible team available, which will be overseen by 7s coaches Vuyo Zangqa and Clemens von Grumbkow in this game. Naturally in line with these measures the DRV must decide in the wake of the test series how they want to proceed with this situation."

So it looks like the Germans will cobble together a team (and coaches) and play the game regardless, but seem to be promising some retribution for the players. Elsewhere in this thing I read it said the GFR have shut themselves off to communication.

 

[die_mole]

Is it just co-incidence that this is only happening *after* the guy bought Stade Français?

Has he already jumped ship and this all just for PR? Or did he just need SF because it gives him more leverage in this current stand-off?

What do you mean? It appears to be the union who isn't working with him.

 

[Groundhog]

What do you mean? It appears to be the union who isn't working with him.

Well from what I translated up there from the union (whaddup Germany, I got a big cock), the union are maintaining the players had been officially signed over for this test series and the strike came out of left field. Honestly I don't understand all this fully though. It's a weird business, which partly makes me understand why the IRFU no longer accepts third party contributions for player salarys (Rory McIlroy paying some Ulster wages for example). It's messy.

 

[Brigantine]

Yeah, it would be good to know what the actual demands are, other than "professional structure". Is it about how the national team is managed? (e.g. contracting), the organizational structure of the Union itself? Or just being more accommodating of professional clubs based in Germany?

Hmm in 2 weeks Heidelberg RK have their 2nd XV playing in a 3rd league game as a curtain raiser for their big Continental Shield game against Petrarca Padova (3rd in Italy)... This fixture seems fine but it looks like HRK's other Continental Shield fixtures clash with their league games - which then need rescheduling.

I don't see why it would be related, I'm just fishing for any sort of explanation for the strike. Maybe it's about Pro14 expansion? (clutching at straws here)

 

[Osezno]

In Total Rugby they also said DRV funds a trip to Dubai for 7s players while a training camp for U20s (XV) has been cancelled. It looks like Wild is saying "either you take XV seriously or you give up control and my men will care"

 

[Car]

I think it all started at the Rugby Day when the WRA guys (i.e. Wild's guys) wanted to interfere in the DRV's presidential election. Wild and the players want rugby to be professional here, about changing the structure of the Union to reach that goal. Apparently the DRV said stuff like "We don't have enough money to pay the players." Well, then don't get into a fight with people who do. We can't compete at this level with amateurs. It seems the DRV is concentrating on the 7s team indeed while leaving 15s to WRA without giving them the respective influence.

But it's really not clear to people what actually is going on.

 

[Groundhog]

Die "Helden von Offenbach", wie die für das Spiel gegen Chile am morgigen Samstag neu formierte 15er-Rugbynationalmannschaft von der Rugby-Community benannt wurde, haben in den vergangenen Tagen einige intensive Trainingseinheiten absolviert, um bestmöglich auf Spiel drei der November-Tests vorbereitet zu sein.

Jetzt haben sich die Trainer Vuyo Zangqa und Clemens von Grumbkow auf eine Startformation festgelegt. Einige werden sich wundern, dass die Mannschaft ausnahmsweise ziemlich bunt durchnummeriert ist. "Das ist unüblich und sicher auch unerfreulich. Aber wir haben den Satz der roten Macron-Matchtrikots sowie auch andere Sportkleidung gestern leider nicht vollständig zurückbekommen, sodass wir in der Kürze der Zeit mit den verschiedenen Größen der schwarzen Trikots improvisieren müssen", so Sportdirektor Manuel Wilhelm. Aber die "Helden von Offenbach" werden sich auch davon nicht aufhalten lassen.

The 'heroes of Offenbach', as the newly formed national team for Saturday's game against Chile are being labelled by the rugby community have completed an intensive training program in the past few days, in order to be prepared in the best possible way for the third game of the Novemer tests.
Now coaches Zangqa and von Grumbkow have picked their starting team. Some will think to themselves, that the team is exceptionally colorfully dressed. "That is not normal and somewhat annoying, but we haven't had the entire set of red Macron jerseys and other gear returned to us yesterday, and as such in the short amount of time available have had to improvise with different sizes of our black jerseys" commented Director Manuel Wilhelm. But the heroes of Offenbach will not let this impede them.

Now that's what I call a shitshow. The union doesn't have gear for their cobbled together team because they expected the striking players to return their gear. They're going in guns blazing here calling the players playing 'heroes' before any result is in, which is eh brave.

 

[Brigantine]

If Chile win, they leapfrog Germany in the rankings to 25th. If the margin is 15+, they also overtake Portugal to 24th.

Total Rugby has had a few things saying Chile has a really strong pack, and the German 7s team OTOH doesn't know what a forward even is.
I counted 6 players from Hannover and one from Berlin in the line-up. Total opposite to the USA game where there were zero from the North or East.

 

[Brigantine]

Good news - DRV have found themselves a pro director to do some emergency-management, taking the team from complete organizational breakdown now, to hopefully a competitive RWC-Quali campaign starting next month.

www.totalrugby.de/content/view/9250/37/

 

[amz]

Paul Healy was also coaching in Romania few years ago and I've met him personally, very professional guy, I wish him all the best in his new position!

 

[Brigantine]

And now, Germany has the complete trifecta.
A South African captain, Australian management, and coaches from New Zealand (and Uruguay and England)

www.totalrugby.de/content/view/9256/37/

I wonder how long until they have a Super Rugby franchise

 

[amz]

what about Uruguayan coach, the only one from DRV or Wild's academy staff with World Cup experience? Kiwi prop was near Romania as well few years ago

 

[Brigantine]

AFAICT Head coach is from Uruguay, forwards coach from NZ, skills coach from England.

I wonder how much these new announcements are related to Wild turning up the pressure. In any case, it looks promising.

I did some sums re RWC and Germany only have a 0.5% chance of even making it out of Europe into repechage, so I guess that's too much to dream -
but another 2-win REC season is a realistic 15%. Either winning in Spain or against Russia would be a first.

 

[Brigantine]

2 new things have happened in terms of HRK and their sponsor WRA/GFR

- HRK qualified for the Qualification Final of the Continental Shield (2 more games they haven't planned for)
- WRA/GFR were not able to reach an agreement with the German Rugby Union (DRV) about how to do professional rugby 15s, and are officially no longer collaborating

This has some serious consequences for HRK's schedule in the Rugby Bundesliga - which could maybe influence whether WRA/GFR release their pro players for the 6NB.

The regular season of the Rugby Bundesliga resumes right after the 6 Nations B for 7 weekends (Mar 24 - May 5).
Most teams a rest on Mar 31 and a game on each of the other 6 weekends, but as a result of clashes last October between Bundesliga rounds 5&6 and Continental Shield rounds 1&2, HRK have 2 additional re-scheduled fixtures on Mar 31 (that rest weekend), and on Wed Apr 25.

So far so good, DRV was accommodating back in October, and one mid-week fixture is manageable.
Now the kicker - the 2 legs of the Continental Shield Qualification Final are on Mar 31 (in Romania) and Apr 21 (at home) - both clashing with Bundesliga games including one which has already been rescheduled once.

Will the DRV allow those Bundesliga fixtures to be rescheduled (again) at all? Will they be willing to extend the regular season, or will HRK have 3 mid-week fixtures in the space of 6 weeks?
(In any other league, they would have the rescheduled games during the 6 Nations B - but if they do that, the national team won't get any players released.)

It seems like it would almost be easier to leave the dates alone but just summon their 3rd division team to play in the Bundesliga in their stead (and lose), while the real team deals with the Continental Shield. They'd still qualify for the Bundesliga SFs.

And with no agreement with the union, will it all happen again next year?

 

[amz]

This has some serious consequences for HRK's schedule in the Rugby Bundesliga - which could maybe influence whether WRA/GFR release their pro players for the 6NB.

DRV can call up to national team all eligible HRK players in the window for 6NB because WR regulation allow this and if club refuses the call up may face serious sanctions.

As for rescheduling, may be a quid pro quo deal, you release players without any fuss and I reschedule your games

 

[Groundhog]

DRV can call up to national team all eligible HRK players in the window for 6NB because WR regulation allow this and if club refuses the call up may face serious sanctions.

As for rescheduling, may be a quid pro quo deal, you release players without any fuss and I reschedule your games

Yeah this, in WR sanctioned international windows clubs can't refuse to release internationals I believe (even if a player had it in his contract I think as was the case with a French club a while back). The only thing that could happen is the players refuse a call up in favour of playing club etc.

 

[die_mole]

DRV can call up to national team all eligible HRK players in the window for 6NB because WR regulation allow this and if club refuses the call up may face serious sanctions.

As for rescheduling, may be a quid pro quo deal, you release players without any fuss and I reschedule your games

Like groundhog pointed out, that regulation has no bearing on what the player decides to do.

 

[amz]

Good point but I answered to a post about WRA releasing players or not. I doubt good players don't want to play test matches, this is what every player wants.

The contract between club and player cannot ignore WR regulations on this matter.

To conclude, the dispute is stupid and I expect all HRK players to be in German squad.

 

[Brigantine]

Here's the other side of the coin. [TotalRugby article]

If the national team doesn't get access to all the players they want, the German Rugby Union will stop Heidelberg from playing in the Challenge Cup, even if they qualify.

I guess that explains why Wild is buying foreign clubs. If this dispute continues, he'll have to transfer everyone.

 

[Brigantine]

Here's WRA/GfR's perspective of the events leading up to Germany announcing a team vs Romania missing most of their best players.

The key points seem to be that:

1. It isn't just WRA/GfR-employed players who were striking, but 20 or so other players too.
2. Apart from insurance and contingency plans for HRK in the even their players are injured before the Continental Shield finals, It's all about money.

The main point from the DRV side, was that WRA/GfR was moving the goal posts after DRV had already agreed to WRA/GfR's demands re compensation.