Frankie Dettori Racing / Melbourne Cup Challenge

[ak47]

Originally posted by C A Iversen@Oct 26 2005, 11:35 AM
I'm kinda with you on your sentiments AK, but I believe the real reason that nothing is coming out about this game is that they are soooo far behind the eight ball with it, that they are trying to avoid the RL2 scenario where they have released damn near all the info and hype, and have no actual release date to speak of even two months after they should have.

SJRL was an average game at best, and even Sanzar merely says it was a good to very good game, and he's a league nut. No offense, Sanzar.
My point is, I'm beginning to think that both RL2 and MCC are not going to be all their cracked up to be, and will fill the 7 out of 10 rating area from most reviewers. No surprise then, that the high reviews so far for RL2, have been from reviewers given an exclusive trial. There's no demo out there for us to judge it on.

Instant Sidhe Release Date - Just add three months.

This is a consistent pattern, thats the only reason, I'm saying what I'm saying.

I know esoj will be on my case over this, but he sounds like one of their PR men anyway.

SJRL was crap for a lateral passing oval ball game, but coz it was league it passed the test of public perception

Sanzar had the modded pc version i think, and i have heard its the goods, but if u need to mod stuff, it shouldnt be shelved in the 1st place

Console modding is impossible, thus any console versions of SJRL was frustrating to play

I am a league nut in real life, but i prefer union games as there's more variety in play.

League games for example need holding down the player at the tackle, and many other aspects (1 on 1 rakes etc) to create the variety that league sometime doesnt have.

Franchise mode is it beggest selling point

as for MCC/FDR (Sir Franklin Roservelt lol) - the online aspect and liscenses are it selling point, and i agree, anything from Sidhe, add 3 months on the initial estimated release

I know HES have alot to do with it, but seeing they never show themselves, Sidhe will cop the wrath from us

 

[esoj]

to bad I'm not on the Sidhe payroll Eh. Sidhe don't seem to be able to win. if they had releaseed in September people would complain about the bugs etc in it and now that the game is delayed everyone is bagging them because the game is not out yet.

Same thing is happening with mcc everyone is bagging them because the november window has been missed. Sure it would have been great if they was lots of media out for the game and that it got released in november but thats not to be so move on. Sidhe are a developer and have a contract with the publisher HES. Sidhe basically only make the game HES call nearly all the media shots but because Sidhe are the ones with forums etc as ak 47 said they cop all the flak regardless if it is their fault or not.

Sidhe should be judged by the games they make not by the shots that HES call.

 

[ak47]

they should also get rid of HES, and start up their own promo/distribution wing.
this way they can call the shots, and even pocket more profits

 

[CeeJay]

When sihe are required to give and estimated release date to HES or the public or whatever, they should add three months themselves and that way the problem would disapperear. Intead of being ****** that september is missed, we would be expecting it in december and be none the wiser.

 

[esoj]

yeah but as soon as there is another delay people would start bagging sidhe again because they missed the december release date. There only hope is to release a game exactly on time any deviation to this and the fans will explode. until people realize that delays happen in video game development nothing will change.

 

[ak47]

Originally posted by esoj@Oct 26 2005, 03:59 PM
yeah but as soon as there is another delay people would start bagging sidhe again because they missed the december release date. There only hope is to release a game exactly on time any deviation to this and the fans will explode. until people realize that delays happen in video game development nothing will change.

yeah but the problem is mario saying there is no delay

he even went on his own forum and said "november is unlikely for MCC"

then in another post, someone was sledging them over their timing, and then he said "semantically speaking MCC isnt delayed" - this isnt word for word, but its basically said that

ones fact...the delay hasnt been announced officially
ones a presumption.........which is what we really want, their own take of the situation in progress

U can tell the demographics targeted

MCC/FDR fans, are alot more intelligent, and u can see that in the forum, as they corner the sidhe reps for answers, and counter upon their vague responses

And now there a betting market LMAO..very fitting with this genre

What will the MCC website update with
$5.00 on December
$3.00 on Late 2005
$1.10 on Early 2006

I am on the Early 2006...........it aint good odds, but you bet with ur brain!!

 

[C A Iversen]

Originally posted by esoj@Oct 26 2005, 03:59 PM
yeah but as soon as there is another delay people would start bagging sidhe again because they missed the december release date. There only hope is to release a game exactly on time any deviation to this and the fans will explode. until people realize that delays happen in video game development nothing will change.

Loads of games from loads of companies get released on time nowadays. Fifa, Madden, Doom 3, Tiger Woods, Far Cry, Star Wars Battlefront, Mortal Kombat and many more either make their release date or are within a week of it.
By a huge margin games are released fairly close to release now, and there are quality ***les amongst many of them, and I'm not referring just to some of the ***les above.

We have a right to ask for the best possible service, sure we might not help by nagging, but lets not pretend this "ongoing delay mission statement" that we seem to get is going to disappear overnight without a trace of our complaints.

 

[esoj]

and what happens if Sidhe release a game on time and its filled with bugs. everyone would complain which is what happens to some ea games that are rushed out. they often have bugs in them like rugby 2004 etc. then when Sidhe delay a game to fix some problems people complain that the game isn't out but they would have complained anyway if it shipped with lots of bugs.

some games do make their required date for sure but there are plenty that get delayed as welll or release too early. delays are part of the gaming industry like it or not they do happen. whinning about the release date won't change anything at all execpt make people feel happier because they have had their say. THe game will still take just as long to make and won't suddenly magically appear out of the blue. If you don't like when Sidhe release their games then don't buy them no one is forcing you too

 

[C A Iversen]

Originally posted by ak47+Oct 26 2005, 04:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ak47 @ Oct 26 2005, 04:19 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-esoj

@Oct 26 2005, 03:59 PM
yeah but as soon as there is another delay people would start bagging sidhe again because they missed the december release date. There only hope is to release a game exactly on time any deviation to this and the fans will explode. until people realize that delays happen in video game development nothing will change.

yeah but the problem is mario saying there is no delay

he even went on his own forum and said "november is unlikely for MCC"

then in another post, someone was sledging them over their timing, and then he said "semantically speaking MCC isnt delayed" - this isnt word for word, but its basically said that

ones fact...the delay hasnt been announced officially
ones a presumption.........which is what we really want, their own take of the situation in progress

U can tell the demographics targeted

MCC/FDR fans, are alot more intelligent, and u can see that in the forum, as they corner the sidhe reps for answers, and counter upon their vague responses

And now there a betting market LMAO..very fitting with this genre

What will the MCC website update with
$5.00 on December
$3.00 on Late 2005
$1.10 on Early 2006

I am on the Early 2006...........it aint good odds, but you bet with ur brain!! [/b]

Put me down for early Jan 2006.

I mean, even if it is O.K to be late as per esoj, which, to a certain exent has it's merits (bug removal and so forth), why has damn near every ***le been very, very late?

Why not one of them about a month late at worst? HES might be crap distributors, but come on.

SIDHE=

Soon Infinite Delays Happen Everyday. Anyone got their suggestion?

And yes, this does make me feel better.

 

[esoj]

I may be wrong but I think gripshift came out on time and early Sidhe games proabbly came out on time otherwise they would have never gotten to do games like gripshift and rugby league. I will say mcc news December if not a release that month.

 

[CeeJay]

I think the problem is, is that the release date they initially set is unrealistic. Like I said, they should over estimate by at least three months and then that will allow for debugging and approval and wotnot. Sure if there was a delay still, then it would be annoying, but it would be very unlikely. Right now we would all be looking forward to a merry christmas and we would have been none the wiser about the september RL2 delay. Heck, they could even susprise everyone and release it early. I know delays are part of the industry but after RL1 sidhe and whoever else was involved shouldve been able to foresee this with RL2 and MCC and work around it.

 

[C A Iversen]

Originally posted by CeeJay@Oct 26 2005, 09:58 PM
I think the problem is, is that the release date they initially set is unrealistic. Like I said, they should over estimate by at least three months and then that will allow for debugging and approval and wotnot. Sure if there was a delay still, then it would be annoying, but it would be very unlikely. Right now we would all be looking forward to a merry christmas and we would have been none the wiser about the september RL2 delay. Heck, they could even susprise everyone and release it early. I know delays are part of the industry but after RL1 sidhe and whoever else was involved shouldve been able to foresee this with RL2 and MCC and work around it.

I'm not at all trying to steal your thunder, Ceejay, but I've expressed exactly this opinion before. It makes so much sense it's not funny.

Mind you after maybe....three or four more late releases, it just might work that way.

So, back onto MCC, I wonder if any New Zealand tracks feature or current New Zealand gallopers? I guess I'll just have to wonder......

Speculation. It's pretty much all we can do now.

Who's up for two more months of speculation?

 

[Mario]

Originally posted by C A Iversen@Oct 26 2005, 05:55 PM
Loads of games from loads of companies get released on time nowadays. Fifa, Madden, Doom 3, Tiger Woods, Far Cry, Star Wars Battlefront, Mortal Kombat and many more either make their release date or are within a week of it.
By a huge margin games are released fairly close to release now, and there are quality ***les amongst many of them, and I'm not referring just to some of the ***les above.

Good crop of examples of games which are never delayed you got there

A quick scan reveals...

"Doom 3 Delayed" http://www.variousandsundry.com/?p=622
"Doom 3 Delayed Again" http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/7609/DOOM-3-Delayed-Again/
"Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil Delayed" http://channels.lockergnome.com/game/archi...l_delayed.phtml
"Far Cry Delayed" http://www.gamepro.com/computer/pc/games/news/31630.shtml
"Far Cry Instincts Delayed" http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/far-cry/528507p1.html
"Mortal Kombat Delayed" http://ps2.ign.com/articles/363/363909p1.html
"Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance Delayed" http://www.gamepower.com.au/?aid=1043
"Tiger Woods DS Delayed" http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=57176
"Tiger Woods 2005 Delayed" http://www.gpstore.co.nz/News/Archive/1186.html


Delays more common than you think perhaps?

 

[NZL Fan]

Mario: any word yet on what we can expect in terms of promotion for this game??

 

[C A Iversen]

Originally posted by Mario+Oct 27 2005, 06:40 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mario @ Oct 27 2005, 06:40 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-C A Iversen

@Oct 26 2005, 05:55 PM
Loads of games from loads of companies get released on time nowadays. Fifa, Madden, Doom 3, Tiger Woods, Far Cry, Star Wars Battlefront, Mortal Kombat and many more either make their release date or are within a week of it.
By a huge margin games are released fairly close to release now, and there are quality ***les amongst many of them, and I'm not referring just to some of the ***les above.

Good crop of examples of games which are never delayed you got there

A quick scan reveals...

"Doom 3 Delayed" http://www.variousandsundry.com/?p=622
"Doom 3 Delayed Again" http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/7609/DOOM-3-Delayed-Again/
"Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil Delayed" http://channels.lockergnome.com/game/archi...l_delayed.phtml
"Far Cry Delayed" http://www.gamepro.com/computer/pc/games/news/31630.shtml
"Far Cry Instincts Delayed" http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/far-cry/528507p1.html
"Mortal Kombat Delayed" http://ps2.ign.com/articles/363/363909p1.html
"Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance Delayed" http://www.gamepower.com.au/?aid=1043
"Tiger Woods DS Delayed" http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=57176
"Tiger Woods 2005 Delayed" http://www.gpstore.co.nz/News/Archive/1186.html


Delays more common than you think perhaps? [/b]

Not a bad rebuttal to my arguement, Mario. Just not great. Only one of those games had a delay to the Australasian release date, which was Tiger Woods 2005. The X-Box and PC versions were out on release day. Plus the PS2 version was delayed about three weeks, I bought it. It was a few months before I bought my X-Box. I have a feeling if Tiger Woods 2003 had to be used as an example, it would have been.
I mean Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance? I bought that game back in 2003, on release day. It was the New Zealand release date that I'd been advised of, and hey it can't have been delayed by more than a month in the states. How come when theres been two updates to this ***le, you used the 2003 version?

Doom 3 and Doom3 Ressurection of Evil on X-Box both were delayed ***les and fair call on that Mario, I wasn't aware. Although in New Zealand, Doom 3 was only delayed a week, and RoE not at all.

Some of the ***les I mentioned are made for many platforms, and there are bound to be delays here and there. I never said there shouldn't be. It's just that the games made by Sidhe seem to be delayed by a whole quarter. Mostly. You see I'm not dealing in absolutes here and saying everything makes release date, I'm just saying that the strike rate of delays for Sidhe is disproportinately high for the number of releases so far.

I respect what you do as a games developer I really do, it's just customers are always going to want something to be as close to what was descibed to them as possible.

3months for league (or who knows, could be 5, we don't have an estimate) is a huge delay, no two ways around that.

MCC, even if it comes out before christmas (I doubt it and Im sure AK does), it will be a shock to your fans. I mean really, shocked and delighted to receive a ***le a month and three weeks after proposed release? Thats kind of what it's coming to.

Whether it's Sony, HES, Sidhe or some other reason, I'll ask you this. How 'bout we all get the games on the day they are all released, and then you get the money 3 months later? It's an.....ummm......errrr.......fiscal refinancing delay. I have to iron out a few bugs in my account.....

Would it go down as well the other way?

 

[ak47]

Originally posted by C A Iversen@Oct 27 2005, 09:42 AM
How 'bout we all get the games on the day they are all released, and then you get the money 3 months later? It's an.....ummm......errrr.......fiscal refinancing delay. I have to iron out a few bugs in my account.....

Would it go down as well the other way?

now that is awesome

in the whole scheme of things mario can squander anygames release date, as i am sure in 1 of the 300 odd countries this planet has, 1 of them will cop a delay

PES5 - ON TIME
MADDEN - ON TIME
TIGER WOODS - 3 DAYS DELAYED
TOP SPIN TENNIS - 1 WEEK DELAYED

Gripshift was on time - funny thats the game none of us care about, and a kind of game that deosnt replicate something of real life.

Get a grip on something else

I would have thought the really good games were more exposed to delays...the above list is the leader of their respective sports, and they all were on-time...1 week isnt really a delay....literally it is, but its not anything of my nose...but 1 QTR like RL2 and possibly MCC............now thats a joke

RL1 all over again............and RL1 was crasp at best unless it was modded....geez makes u wonder what we would have gotton if RL1 was ontime.

The bugs must be rediculous, coz juiced was delayed for corporate reasoning, and its nearly past that delay.

The thing with all this is RL2 sales will be subject to XBox360 (in the UK), and Rugby Challenge!

Seeing RL2 doesnt even have an XBOX release announced, I wonder what they plan to do about the 360 around the corner....no xbox, or xbox 6 months later, when the 360 is well and truly rolling - YEAH TOP PROJECT THIS ONE

 

[CeeJay]

I agree and think any developers would do well to get as much of there stuff out as possible before the xbox 360, and especially games lke RL2 etc that have a specific target audience, and in the uk at least alot of them may be throwing all their cash at the 360. And I agree they also need to look out for RC 2006, im desperate for one of these games and which ever comes first will get my time and money.

I remember when PS2 first came out, I said I wouldnt waste my money on one. Then I hired one and I could never touch Ps1 again. I bought a Ps2 a week later! The same effect could be possible with the 360.

 

[C A Iversen]

Yep, and why aren't we talking about MCC? Quite simple really, we want to talk about the present, not the future. We don't even have an estimate. All the "delays" that Mario told us about other ***les a page back? Well, at least other companies generally give an estimated time of arrival. RL2 isn't even capable of nailing it down to a 6 week time-frame.

Everything is "confidential", and we can't be told unless some clause is broken. God knows how we ever find out news in the final month of other ***les prior to their release.

At the moment, if it wasn't for complaining, we'd have nothing to do on this site.

Would it be impossible for Mario to give us a "fact of the day" on either ***le?

Got my crystal ball out, let's see..........Ffaacccttt offf tthhheee ddaaayyy nummberr 1 from Marriooo "There hass beeennn annotthherrr unexpeccctted delaaaayyy, eevvveerryyyonnee"

Hmm, this crystal ball works great. Shall I lend it to Sidhe?

 

[Mr. Laxative]

Mario is here so i won't carry on as I want to.

Also mario could you please read the Make Your Own Game!! and Lattimorx Industries in the other games forum.

 

[Mario]

Originally posted by C A Iversen@Oct 27 2005, 09:42 AM
Not a bad rebuttal to my arguement, Mario. Just not great.

...

Would it go down as well the other way?

You have a very skewed view of release dates. Most ***les are released in the US first, and by the time they come out here at a later date any delays have avoided being communicated to the local public.

Your info is also wrong. Doom 3 for example was delayed for over a year beyond their initial estimates communicated in the US. Just because your local game store didn't advertise a release date until after one had been confirmed doesn't mean it wasn't delayed.

In any case, given the list of ***les you provided and 3 minutes searching the internet I found most of the franchises you had mentioned were delayed in some way. When over half of the exaples you provide are not flawless in their delivery, thats a pretty compelling argument to suggest delays are more common than you think. Type "ps2 delayed" into Google and you will come up to a truckload of games which have been, many from top tier developers and publishers. And if they are susceptible to delays, why shouldn't we be being the "crappy" developer that many here are happy to label us as.

From day one we are pressured to provide a release day, even though things are highly variable for a number of reasons. We get criticised for not providing a "date to look forward to" early in the process. We get criticised for being wrong in our early estimates. We get criticised for delaying the game to improve things to our satisfaction. We get criticised for not delaying the game long enough in order to improve things further. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And its not just simple to "overstimate by 3 to 6 months" as has been suggested, because that really screws up the retail side if you get the game out on time.


As for getting the money 3 months early, well, EB or whoever has your money not Sidhe or HES. If you decide to preorder thats your decision.