franchises are cack

[Steve-o]

Only the province of Kwa-Zulu Natal, therefore the Natal Sharks. So there is no change in the team structures.

 

[stormer2010]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Jan 16 2010, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jan 16 2010, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alright I think I see the core problem here on the franchise vs club side of things.
Franchises are an advent of the pro-era and clubs are remaining stewards from the amatuer era.

Ultimately I think franchises are the way of the pro-era as it encourages regulations and controls on pro-sport which is essential for competitiveness in sport.
Sport NEEDS to be regulated or else we will have the farce we see in football (soccer).

Luckily for my team there is no distinction between the S14 & the Currie Cup besides a change in uniform[/b]

Steve, what currie cup teams are the Sharks supposed to represent in S14? Like Stormers represent WP and Boland.
[/b][/quote]

A breakdown of rugby districts and representations in SA rugby;

Stormers represent WP and Boland but you'll never see a Boland player jog out. Politics.
Blue Bulls are Pretoria(in Gauteng Province) plus East rand and Limpopo.
Lions are Johannesburg(in Gauteng Province) plus Mpumalanga and NW Province
Sharks are just Kwazulu Natal
Cheetahs are Freestate and the Northern Cape (both very small populations)

Generally, though, only players from the major stakeholders play and those from the smaller unions don't get any representation. The Cheetahs would be daft not to include some NC (Griquas) players who lead the Currie cup last year untill the Springboks returned to the fold.

Rugby districts not represented are the SW Eagles, Border Bulldogs and EP Elephants with the last two hoping to form the Southern Kings in the future.

 

[QLD]

One more thing, can you tell me if Juan Smith played super rugby pre 2006? Trying to look to see if he played for a team before the Cheetahs arrived. Did he get picked as a bok from playing CC rugby?

 

[Muzzy]

One more thing, can you tell me if Juan Smith played super rugby pre 2006? Trying to look to see if he played for a team before the Cheetahs arrived. Did he get picked as a bok from playing CC rugby?

he played for the Cats i think from 2003 - 05, maybe even before then

and also yeah i prefer to watch the itm cup more than s14 not because i feel more of a connection but because its more entertaining with more free flowing rugby and i don't have to be up at 4am to watch any of the games

 

[donmcdazzle]

They should scrap the super rugby all together, the powers that be stupidly expanded it, never should've had more than 12 teams now it is a joke. NZers have no interest in seeing some terrible team from SA play another equally terrible team from australia.

Put the emphasis back onto NPC and club rugby in NZ and they'll win the fans back. With all the all blacks involved in the NPC the players would spread throughout the provinces and it would prevent the likes of wellington/canterbury taking kids from other provinces out of schools into their acadamies (e.g the whitelock boys from manawatu). Each province would be stronger and the support would be better as the product itself would be better. Like it's hard for a person from say malborough to get down to see a crusaders game with a couple of tasman players, but if they had a good team and were playing against top opposition each week you'd imagine the crowds would be better. E.G hawkes bay/manawatu fans have only one or two marquee players each and when one of them makes the all blacks (cruden and dagg) they then never play for the province, which robs the local supporters of seeing their best player/s..

Be a brave person to pull out of the sanzar thing but jock hobbs or whoever is in charge should do it.

 

[Shaggy]

They should scrap the super rugby all together, the powers that be stupidly expanded it, never should've had more than 12 teams now it is a joke. NZers have no interest in seeing some terrible team from SA play another equally terrible team from australia.

Put the emphasis back onto NPC and club rugby in NZ and they'll win the fans back. With all the all blacks involved in the NPC the players would spread throughout the provinces and it would prevent the likes of wellington/canterbury taking kids from other provinces out of schools into their acadamies (e.g the whitelock boys from manawatu). Each province would be stronger and the support would be better as the product itself would be better. Like it's hard for a person from say malborough to get down to see a crusaders game with a couple of tasman players, but if they had a good team and were playing against top opposition each week you'd imagine the crowds would be better. E.G hawkes bay/manawatu fans have only one or two marquee players each and when one of them makes the all blacks (cruden and dagg) they then never play for the province, which robs the local supporters of seeing their best player/s..

Be a brave person to pull out of the sanzar thing but jock hobbs or whoever is in charge should do it.

I couldn't disagree more ... SANZAR tournaments (and end of year All Black tours) are where the NZ union get all it's money from - No Money = No pay for players in NZ = Mass exodus of players to Europe and Japan

I disagree with your comments on prevention of players being taken from other provinces too - it's always been happening (even in the amateur days), good players from the smaller unions have gone to the Auckland, Wellington, Canterbury, and Otago because their likelihood of becoming an All Black increased ... at least now players can be paid to play in their own provinces (if they choose to), and they also can get some of the super squad from outside of their province on loan to play for them.

As for the ABs actually playing games for their provinces, this is much like the debate of them playing for their clubs in the eighties and early nineties ... they couldn't because of the number of tests and NPC games.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Hard nut to crack.
Personally I really like NPC, it' s great to watch and every team has some good players.
Super rugby is the merge of good players of certain regions which makes it attractive to see a decent team play.
Downside is that you have some franchises that always end at the bottom of the table and that since it's existence it are mostly the same teams ending in the top 4.

 

[William18]

They should scrap the super rugby all together, the powers that be stupidly expanded it, never should've had more than 12 teams now it is a joke. NZers have no interest in seeing some terrible team from SA play another equally terrible team from australia.

Put the emphasis back onto NPC and club rugby in NZ and they'll win the fans back. With all the all blacks involved in the NPC the players would spread throughout the provinces and it would prevent the likes of wellington/canterbury taking kids from other provinces out of schools into their acadamies (e.g the whitelock boys from manawatu). Each province would be stronger and the support would be better as the product itself would be better. Like it's hard for a person from say malborough to get down to see a crusaders game with a couple of tasman players, but if they had a good team and were playing against top opposition each week you'd imagine the crowds would be better. E.G hawkes bay/manawatu fans have only one or two marquee players each and when one of them makes the all blacks (cruden and dagg) they then never play for the province, which robs the local supporters of seeing their best player/s..

Be a brave person to pull out of the sanzar thing but jock hobbs or whoever is in charge should do it.

What players do Wellington take from other provinces? Hardly any. A few people like Treeby were born outside of Wellington but he and the vast majority of the current Wellington squad were either born or educated here. The only exceptions to this I believe are Adrian Barone (who?), Ramsay, Mathewson, Gear (who should play for Poverty Bay) and probably Scott Fugistaller. There would be far more Wellington produced players playing in other provinces. Look at Robbie Freuan.

 

[ranger]

What players do Wellington take from other provinces? Hardly any. A few people like Treeby were born outside of Wellington but he and the vast majority of the current Wellington squad were either born or educated here. The only exceptions to this I believe are Adrian Barone (who?), Ramsay, Mathewson, Gear (who should play for Poverty Bay) and probably Scott Fugistaller. There would be far more Wellington produced players playing in other provinces. Look at Robbie Freuan.

Adrian Barone (Wanganui)
Tajhon Mailata (Australia/Bay of Plenty)
Alby Matthewson (Hawkesbay)
Api Naikatini (Wanganui)
Charlie Ngatai (Poverty Bay)
Hosea Gear (Poverty Bay)
Daniel Ramsay (Southland)
Conrad Smith (Taranaki)
Scott Fuglistaller (Taranaki)
David Te Moana (Bay of Plenty/ Manawatu)
Frae Wilson (Hawkes Bay)
Te Ruki Te Puna (Bay of Plenty)

Wellington isn't quite as bad this year, but there is no denying that they lure a lot of talented players out of smaller teams.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Adrian Barone (Wanganui)
Tajhon Mailata (Australia/Bay of Plenty)
Alby Matthewson (Hawkesbay)
Api Naikatini (Wanganui)
Charlie Ngatai (Poverty Bay)
Hosea Gear (Poverty Bay)
Daniel Ramsay (Southland)
Conrad Smith (Taranaki)
Scott Fuglistaller (Taranaki)
David Te Moana (Bay of Plenty/ Manawatu)
Frae Wilson (Hawkes Bay)
Te Ruki Te Puna (Bay of Plenty)

Wellington isn't quite as bad this year, but there is no denying that they lure a lot of talented players out of smaller teams.

Ranger thanks for backing up my point with the examples. I wasn't singling out Wellington, I'm sure the big unions all do it. And fair play to them they can offer better facilities and training so it is attractive for the young guys. I know quite a few friends from the Manawatu region who signed for acadamies in Wellington and Canterbury.. They might not be in the top side or whatever but a fair amount of the guys Wellington and Canterbury acadamies are from other provinces.

 

[Sam Owen]

At the moment Wellington (if they dont improve their position on the ITM ladder) might be relegated to 2nd division next year I think. Read it somewhere that they are halving the ITM comp or something and so far Wellington is in the bottom half.

 

[Dizzy]

At the moment Wellington (if they dont improve their position on the ITM ladder) might be relegated to 2nd division next year I think. Read it somewhere that they are halving the ITM comp or something and so far Wellington is in the bottom half.

Yeah next year the competition will be halved because of the world cup I think. The top seven sides will be the premier and the bottom seven are the second division. And Wellington are very close to joining that bottom seven.

Actually the only Wellington based province doing well in the tournament is Taranaki, with Wellington sitting at 8th, Hawkes Bay 10th and Manawatu last or second to last, not too sure.

So I guess there is a bit of truth behind this thread, I mean Hawkes Bay have drawn three games this year and each has been against Franchise teams Canterbury[Crusaders], Waikato[Chiefs] and Otago[Highlanders].

 

[ranger]

Yeah next year the competition will be halved because of the world cup I think. The top seven sides will be the premier and the bottom seven are the second division. And Wellington are very close to joining that bottom seven.

Actually the only Wellington based province doing well in the tournament is Taranaki, with Wellington sitting at 8th, Hawkes Bay 10th and Manawatu last or second to last, not too sure.

So I guess there is a bit of truth behind this thread, I mean Hawkes Bay have drawn three games this year and each has been against Franchise teams Canterbury[Crusaders], Waikato[Chiefs] and Otago[Highlanders].

Its not because of the world cup, its because with they let Super Rugby needlessly expand again.

 

[Dizzy]

Oh I thought it was because of the world cup.

 

[Dizzy]

And actually when you think of it, the stand out teams this year have been Southland, Taranaki and Counties, the only other team that has really stood out is Sonny Bill Williams,....... I mean Canterbury.
So that says alot about the franchise teams.