Franchise day 1

[Saints1]

Tomorrow at 11:30am (live on Sky Sports News, if you're that way inclined) the RFL are going to unveil the first Super League licensee. I would suggest it's between Widnes and Halifax. On the pitch, Halifax are miles ahead, off it, Widnes make a very presentable case.

Either way, the RFL have made a rod for their own back announcing someone would be getting a franchise who hadn't previously, so let us hope their applications are strong!

 

[Saints1]

Granted to Widnes. Halifax enter the pot with the existing 14 teams. Barrow deemed unsuitable.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Good stuff, look forward to seeing them back in

Squeaky bum time for Crusaders though - after a poor start to the season and all of the stuff during the off season their case will be severely weakened


Who do you think will lose out?
Crusaders being in Wales will help them, and Harlequins decent start to the season will help them (though their attendances aren't great I imagine them winning more games than usual could tempt in a crowd)
The Guardian reckon it's between Wakefield, Castleford and Salford - I imagine Salford is the 'favourite' from those 3, though Crusaders aren't clear by a long shot

 

[Saints1]

Personally, and without any hesitation, I'd launch out Crusaders, who are a financial disaster zone, and Salford, whose crowds are utterly pathetic.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Reckon the Crusaders will just sneak by. Im glad Widnes are back in the mix with the old Jiffy. Lot of Welsh players have represented the club.

Crusaders are in for a tough ride this year, whether or not the RFL believe they can turn it around is another question. I think that they need to prove on the pitch that they are no mugs because at the moment they look lost without Noble in charge.

 

[Saints1]

I can't think of one single reason to re-admit them. Not a single one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Exposure of the game to Wales - even if they're not in Bridgend any more you still get a lot of people following them just because they are a Welsh team

However South Wales Scorpions are doing alright for themselves and getting a decent fanbase so they're exposing the south to RL as well

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Whilst also acting as a feeder club to the Crusaders.

Money aside they have raised the profile of the game within Wales. No matter how against it you are Dan, the only real thing that has troubled them is the financial problems that have been sorted. Something that the RFL must equally take the blame for not stopping Leighton Samuel ruining another franchise.

 

[Saints1]

I blame the RFL for giving them a franchise in the first place.

We can use the "gained Welsh support" all we want, their attendances are appalling. They nearly match Quins RL for dreadful attendances, and they should be looking over their shoulders as well. They have retreated to Wrexham. Wrexham for pity's sake, an hour away from St Helens, Wigan, Warrington, Salford (ok, maybe not) and now Widnes. It totally defeats the object.

Welsh RL is simply not ready to sustain a Super League team. It won't be a popular point, but I don't care - Crusaders are going to harm the sport in Wales more than help it.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Crusaders are going to harm the sport in Wales more than help it.

In what way?

 

[Saints1]

In that they'll go bust and we're back to square one - no professional teams.

Demote them, put them in NL1, find them a permanent home, a permanent name (they're on their third, now...) and let them apply again in six years time. Crusaders in Super League are damaging themselves, and far more importantly to me, the quality of the competition.

If the Welsh fanbase is so strong, they'll still get very similar crowds and everything be fine.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

In that they'll go bust and we're back to square one - no professional teams.

Demote them, put them in NL1, find them a permanent home, a permanent name (they're on their third, now...) and let them apply again in six years time. Crusaders in Super League are damaging themselves, and far more importantly to me, the quality of the competition.

If the Welsh fanbase is so strong, they'll still get very similar crowds and everything be fine.

To be picky second name, first one was Celtic Crusaders and then with the move they were re-branded the Crusaders RL.

If you demote them then you are in serious risk of the whole thing collapsing. As for competition, think they do provide enough challenge as last season showed. This season has not been the easiest, with the points deduction and the UK Border withholding two crucial players VISA's which have now been addressed. This season will show the character needed. In the games I have seen and read all the media have said that the Crusaders continue to battle through the entire game.

Demote them by all means, but watch the fall that Rugby League will suffer in Wales and I am sure that no one would want to see that.

 

[Saints1]

I wouldn't, but I'd sooner them go bust in the Championship than Super League. And they will go bust, trust me. They're already being bailed by the RFL.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I wouldn't, but I'd sooner them go bust in the Championship than Super League. And they will go bust, trust me. They're already being bailed by the RFL.

Ye but also they were bailed out by financial backers on the board and they are no longer in problem of money. They are not rich and neither are they on the brink of being bankruptcy again. I go back to a point I made a while back and will always stand by it until I get sufficient evidence to prove me wrong. I still believe that 'traditionalist' really don't like seeing Rugby League outside of the hot beds in the UK. I have talked and met a few people like this who think that London, Perpignan and Wales should not have a franchise. Basing it completely on their location and also when money issues or crowd problems arise they are quick to say these places should not have a team. Say what you want but RL is kept within the 'North' and honestly people are just basing the financial problems and blaming the Crusaders. In reality very few people have considered what the Crusaders has done to RL in Wales, very few know the effect they have had and people know quite little about the good they have done.

Would it be different if St Helens or Wigan ever got into the same position would the same attitudes apply?

 

[The Juice]

Good to see Widnes in Super League and i hope for them to have a very strong future within Super League. As for the Crusaders problems i have to agree with what Saints is saying and personally i don't believe that the team will be around for much longer even if the RFL want to try and break the Welsh market.

 

[Saints1]

Ye but also they were bailed out by financial backers on the board and they are no longer in problem of money. They are not rich and neither are they on the brink of being bankruptcy again. I go back to a point I made a while back and will always stand by it until I get sufficient evidence to prove me wrong. I still believe that 'traditionalist' really don't like seeing Rugby League outside of the hot beds in the UK. I have talked and met a few people like this who think that London, Perpignan and Wales should not have a franchise. Basing it completely on their location and also when money issues or crowd problems arise they are quick to say these places should not have a team. Say what you want but RL is kept within the 'North' and honestly people are just basing the financial problems and blaming the Crusaders. In reality very few people have considered what the Crusaders has done to RL in Wales, very few know the effect they have had and people know quite little about the good they have done.

Would it be different if St Helens or Wigan ever got into the same position would the same attitudes apply?

I take your point about people not wanting teams to do well outside of the hotbed. There are 3 categories of people - traditionalists, who want to keep the sport in the heartlands, sensible expansionists, like me, and the RFL, new and different, we'll have you. It is important to differentiate.

I would personally consider stripping Harlequins RL of their franchise based on their crowds. Their financial stability is also questionable. And I would launch the Crusaders out tomorrow if I could, for the exact same reasons. Anyone who thinks the Catalans is a waste of a franchise hasn't had a brain wasted on them. They have, by and large, been a fantastic success.

I want the game to grow and I want the game to do well, but the sport is not in a position yet where it can do so. The heartlands rugby isn't at it's highest ebb either! We're a million miles behind Australia and they're behind New Zealand. We need to focus on what we do well and make it better. It that makes Catalans the lone outpost, then so be it. Because Wales is not ready for a Super League team.

Wigan are one of the richest teams in the sport, but their behaviour in the 1980's would see a number of people turning up to **** on their grave if they ever went into administration, me included. Saints have been on the brink several times, bailed out by fans. If the Crusaders had to rely on their fans, they'd be bust within a day. They're a young club, but they're going to die if they stay as they are. Demote them and give them a chance to regroup.

And you can play the victim with Crusaders all you want mate - you went bust. Whatever the reasons, you went into liquidation! Not even Wakefield went that close.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I take your point about people not wanting teams to do well outside of the hotbed. There are 3 categories of people - traditionalists, who want to keep the sport in the heartlands, sensible expansionists, like me, and the RFL, new and different, we'll have you. It is important to differentiate.

I would personally consider stripping Harlequins RL of their franchise based on their crowds. Their financial stability is also questionable. And I would launch the Crusaders out tomorrow if I could, for the exact same reasons. Anyone who thinks the Catalans is a waste of a franchise hasn't had a brain wasted on them. They have, by and large, been a fantastic success.

I want the game to grow and I want the game to do well, but the sport is not in a position yet where it can do so. The heartlands rugby isn't at it's highest ebb either! We're a million miles behind Australia and they're behind New Zealand. We need to focus on what we do well and make it better. It that makes Catalans the lone outpost, then so be it. Because Wales is not ready for a Super League team.

Wigan are one of the richest teams in the sport, but their behaviour in the 1980's would see a number of people turning up to **** on their grave if they ever went into administration, me included. Saints have been on the brink several times, bailed out by fans. If the Crusaders had to rely on their fans, they'd be bust within a day. They're a young club, but they're going to die if they stay as they are. Demote them and give them a chance to regroup.

And you can play the victim with Crusaders all you want mate - you went bust. Whatever the reasons, you went into liquidation! Not even Wakefield went that close.

Last line makes me laugh because the Crusaders never entered liquidation ... administration yes ... liquidation no because the side would not exist otherwise if it was liquidised. There is a difference.

 

[Saints1]

Can you then explain why they had to start a new company then?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Can you then explain why they had to start a new company then?

Which one is that?

W Crusaders Limited bought the Wrexham Assets.

 

[Saints1]

And they were a new company:

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wales/44863-crusaders-bought-out-admin/