France - 2015 lookahead

[Big Ewis]

This thread can be used as a tracker of what goes on in French Rugby in view of the 2015 RWC in England, i.e. interesting prospects, young guys that could make the team, replacements for current older guys...

- Tighthead: Rabah Slimani is already breaking necks in Top 14 scrums and he's a work in progress. His coach in Paris says once he comes out of his shell, because he's a very shy, value-worshipping type guy, he's going to be great to work on with his ability ball in hand. He's just fantastic to have, a provokes a huge sigh of relief for me knowing we've got somebody worthy of being an heir to Nicolas Mas's throne, it seems. He might be more interesting than his elder away from the scrum too, as he's quite versatile...
Will Nicolas Mas make it to the next world cup ? He's 33. He'll be 35 in time for the Cup, and has already shown signs of slowing down a bit in the scrum and on defense/all around...

- Hooker position: Szarzewski will be 32 so not too old in time for the world cup, but he hasn't exactly been prodigious lately...though not bad by any means. Do we keep Kayser-Szar, or go with other prospects around the Top 14, or try a very promising Toulousain Christopher Tolofua (who's just 20 now) ?

- Winger: right now it seems our new wing duo should be a tried and tested Yoann Huget alongside Sofiane Guitoune who's already a hit in a Bleus uniform. We've got fantastic depth at that position though, and surely fans of respective clubs would offer to see their own club's winger in the XV de France...I personally think Huget-Guitoune is good, but if we ever got another injury I think Benjamin Fall from Racing Metro is a fantastic talent. He's tall and very athletic, powerful, and creates attacking plays on his own. Plus he's still young (24yo). Good pace, great footwork. He just doesn't get any spotlight because the Racing sucks so bad this year.
Everybody in France is yelling for Marvin O'Connor...

- 3rd Row: no doubt for the no.8 position. But can Dusautoir play in his third world cup ? He'll be 33-going-on-34 by the 2015 RWC...and injuries are piling up....he was just returning to good form and then bam, down again...Dark Destroyer by 2015 ?
Let's say Dusautoir is out for good, the current/recent pool of capped flankers we can pick from is as follows:

Burban, Ouedraogo, Lauret, Nyanga, Le Roux, Chouly, or Claassen.

In Toulouse, Yacouba Camara looks like a very interesting prospect: ultra-athletic, originally African type. 193cm for 100kg and just 19 now. Guy almost looks like a back with ball in hand, and can be a very peculiarly interesting specimen physically with his length and airborne, lightness style. Will have to confirm his tackling/rucking.

EDIT: Bruni (Toulon, going to Perpignan it seems), Lapandry (Clermont), Diarra (Castres) as fine options too.


So here are just a few comments, feel free to add anything.

 

[Big Ewis]

d'like to revive this thread, and all the epic arguments and battles it has provoked throughout the ages....ahemm.. to let whomever reads this know that...apparently Julien Bonnaire is currently in discussion with Philippe Saint-Enculé to join France once again. He retired in 2012, after the 2012 6N I believe, and I find it honorable he'd even consider the thing.

They've gone to him, rather than the other way around, and since his new contract to stay in ASM Clermont he's said RWC's are the best competitions and he isn't against the idea of playing another one.

He knows there's competition in the third row in France, but hopes maybe he could return.
I've always loved this guy, and he's always been a HUGE tackler and is constantly brilliant in the stats there, often most prolific tackler in matches both club or int'l.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Bonnaire is a class player, but he won't get into the starting team. 6.Nyanga 7.Dusautoir 8.Picamoles the Toulouse lot are the best that you have and behind that you have Chouly, Lauret, Lapandry, Le Roux, Burban, Bruni, Gunther and others. To me it's like Botha playing for SA he doesn't help aid you for the future. When the world cup comes around Bonnaire will be 36/37 so he might not be up too standard in 18 months, when you hit a certain age you start to decline rapidly and he hasn't played international rugby for 2 years. His tackling and line out work should still hold up but the speed and intensity of internationals might catch him out.

 

[Tony Manx]

You have to be having a laugh...............mind you, understand Blanco is interested in playing again also?!!!

 

[goodNumber10]

Philippe Saint-Enculé

I don't really have anything to add other than this made me spit tea over my monitor...

 

[Big Ewis]

Good points TheSaffycen. I should let you know I enjoy watching the Sarries play btw., I know Sarrie fans are an absolute rarity around here.

You have to be having a laugh...............mind you, understand Blanco is interested in playing again also?!!!

well it sounds far fetched but it's actually reasonable if you think about it. He's still spot-on with his flanker work and consistent. He could be tried out in the next 6N or smt if he's still on form, and then used in the RWC. He'd bring a ton of experience to the pack and would tackle like hell if he's still in shape by then..

I don't really have anything to add other than this made me spit tea over my monitor...

yeah yeah WHY DO YOU STILL HAVE THAT SIGNATURE ??!!!! :%#%#:

 

[TheSaffycen]

I enjoy watching the Sarries play btw., I know Sarrie fans are an absolute rarity around here.

I must admit that I love the physicality we bring, I love south African rugby, but we are boring in attack
And without this sounding all homo but I love to watch Toulouse play. My granddad was French so I try to follow French rugby and I use to love watching Heymans, Medard, Clerc and Juazion playing. I was still ****** off when you beat us in the H Cup though.

Anyway back on topic the back-row is no position of weakness for France the position I would seriously worry about is tighthead, slimani is a very interesting prospect and is being challenged in the toughest league for props. Kotze should look to move to a team where he is the first choice prop to help his development. I don't know if Adam Jones has signed a new deal but there was big talk that he was linked with Clermont and Kotze would suffer as a result.

 

[Big Ewis]

I must admit that I love the physicality we bring, I love south African rugby, but we are boring in attack
And without this sounding all homo but I love to watch Toulouse play. My granddad was French so I try to follow French rugby and I use to love watching Heymans, Medard, Clerc and Juazion playing. I was still ****** off when you beat us in the H Cup though.

Anyway back on topic the back-row is no position of weakness for France the position I would seriously worry about is tighthead, slimani is a very interesting prospect and is being challenged in the toughest league for props. Kotze should look to move to a team where he is the first choice prop to help his development. I don't know if Adam Jones has signed a new deal but there was big talk that he was linked with Clermont and Kotze would suffer as a result.

Well I couldn't say "we" when talking about Toulouse, I've no relation with the town (although my grandfather's from there, so my French roots). I just like the team a lot and what they stand for in French Rugby. And yes this has gone complete homo, I'm afraid I'll have to befriend you here and then who knows where this beautiful flourishing friendship brings us.

Yes, I keep repeating it, you're right. Both our countries in fact are in desperate need of quality tightheads. In England I'm a little surprised, because although TH's and hookers are arguably the scarcest of all positions for quality ones everywhere, England doesn't have the french league int'ls problem. EVERY Tightead we have in the Top 14 is a Georgian or a darn Pacific Islander. We've got a healthy number of LH's, but not TH's.

Everybody in France is talking about Clément Ric from Clermont atm, but I've seen him a bit and am not impressed AT ALL. Not as a scrummager, and less even in the loose. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. I think French fans are sensationalizing him because there's such a dire shortage for his position...

Ducalcon can't do test Rugby, Mas is getting old and isn't happy with the new laws. We've got Slimani. And Kotze is another poached South African at TH. Where the fk are the world-renowned French scrummagers every team has feared for generations ???
Very disappointing outcome for the nation...

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yes, I keep repeating it, you're right. Both our countries in fact are in desperate need of quality tightheads. In England I'm a little surprised, because although TH's and hookers are arguably the scarcest of all positions for quality ones everywhere, England doesn't have the french league int'ls problem. EVERY Tightead we have in the Top 14 is a Georgian or a darn Pacific Islander. We've got a healthy number of LH's, but not TH's.

Everybody in France is talking about Clément Ric from Clermont atm, but I've seen him a bit and am not impressed AT ALL. Not as a scrummager, and less even in the loose. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. I think French fans are sensationalizing him because there's such a dire shortage for his position...

Quality tightheads are incredibly rare because they don't normally come good until 25+ because the strain on them they only become international class late on, when they become larger, lots of clubs cannot have a young TH playing lots because if they are a top club they need results. If they play for a smaller club it normally means they are playing in a poor pack and are not exposed to high level rugby. So they don't get then development they need compared to someone like Fickou or Tuilagi who play in a position where they can be covered or protected by players around them. Props are one of the only positions where you go opposite with your opposite number. Lets say Slimani was playing against Corbisiero and is getting pushed back he comes off as soon as possible because losing the scrum is too hard for your team to win. It's not like Fickou where if he's missing tackle after tackle where you just say to Fritz look cover him and make the tackles down the 12 channel and let him do the attacking.
In England we have Cole - who is a good tighthead around the park and is stable in the scrum, Wilson- Who is a great scrummager but was unfit during the 6 nations, Thomas- isn't a scrummager but is good around the park and is moving to Bath which will hopefully mean he is going to be taught to scrum with Wilson. Hookers we are okay with Hartley is solid and we have Ward, George and a very promising Luke Cowan- Dickie who may be a world beater.

France are in no desperate need form a hooker you have Szar, Kayser and Tolofua who is just incredible. If anyone wants to see a game of his watch Saracens vs Toulouse at Wembley, him and Galan bully our pack and you see the Vunipola's look the boys against men!

 

[Big Ewis]

well I saw that game obviously. And yes Galan's made an impression on absolutely everybody who's seen this one...it was that game that made me discover the Saracens properly. A very respectable Rugby club. I'll try to check them out this coming Saturday.

And yeah everything you say is correct but this would apply to LH props as well, which it doesn't as much as TH's. I just think it's got to do with the importance of a TH in a pack. There are TH solutions in both nations, but just not nearly at the required level. It takes a guy who can scrummage, first of all, and he's usually the bigger prop so basically a fatty who can run too and hold at least 60min at test level.
Even Adam Jones said it with a bit of humor, he was basically a fat boy who had to lose a bit of fat and get some endurance in.

The sort of dimensions required, while keeping a decent level of play in the loose and stamina all makes it a very narrow probability to find a quality TH.

Clément Ric gets some time in Clermont, but obviously it's a loaded as hell side...he's 25, maybe he'll get traded eventually and we'll see what he's really worth after some development.

 

[TheSaffycen]

There is more pressure on the TH side of the scrum so you have to be stronger in the scrum. Thats why LH like Healy are good from a young age because they are athletic and they don't have to be as good in the scrum a la Vunipola.

 

[Big Ewis]

Healy is a very good scrummager for a LH, I must say.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yeah he is but what I am saying is that he can start at a younger age at LH and be effect in the scrum.