Four Conference system planned for 2016

[austingtir]

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[TRF_stormer2010]

Im sick of the political interference from the SA govt. Thats the thing that ****** me off the most. The NZ and Aus govts have next to nothing to do with the running of any of the comps between the three countries but SARFU gets dictated to like a lapdog at every instance.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...clubs/story-e6frg7o6-1226884353105#mm-premium

Big questions should be asked of the IRB over this!

Truly ridiculous in this day and age, yes.

It looks like the quota's are coming through in rugby. As I understand it 40% of the matchday squad has to be non-white. I thought it was just grandstanding prior to elections on Wednesday but seems its not.

My biggest problem is what if say a team like the Stormers get an injury to say Ntubeni or Kolisi and we go below 40%. We don't have a direct black replacement for Ntubeni so that'd mean someone else has to not play to bring in a quota player like forinstance, bring in Liebenberg for the injured Ntubeni but then you have to drop a guy like Schalk Burger maybe to make room for Carr. I'm not saying Carr should not necessarily make the team in any case on form but the whole thing just gets silly and it is a breading ground for animosity.

 

[austingtir]

Truly ridiculous in this day and age, yes.

It looks like the quota's are coming through in rugby. As I understan d it 40% of the matchday squad has to be non-white. I thought it was just grandstanding prior to elections on Wednesday but seems its not.

My biggest problem is what if say a team like the Stormers get an injury to say Ntubeni or Kolisi and we go below 40%. We don't have a direct black replacement for Ntubeni so that'd mean someone else has to not play to bring in a quota player like forinstance, bring in Liebenberg for the injured Ntubeni but then you have to drop a guy like Schalk Burger maybe to make room for Carr. I'm not saying Carr should not necessarily make the team in any case on form but the whole thing just gets silly and it is a breading ground for animosity.

From your perspective hows it even possible they are getting away with this!? What gets me is we had protests here in NZ back in the day now its pretty much going the other way... where are all these fools? Sure it is not the same thing as what went on in apartheid but come on!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

From your perspective hows it even possible they are getting away with this!? What gets me is we had protests here in NZ back in the day now its pretty much going the other way... where are all these fools? Sure it is not the same thing as what went on in apartheid but come on!

Majority rules.

 

[austingtir]

Majority rules.

We'll surely the world should Ban all SA sports again? Personally I suspect the only reason nothings being done is the $$$$ factor. To many people that own the news media have a vested intrest to keep the status quo.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well, it is 'affirmative action' so I would be surprised if anyone outside of the SA minority makes any sound at all.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Truly ridiculous in this day and age, yes.

It looks like the quota's are coming through in rugby. As I understand it 40% of the matchday squad has to be non-white. I thought it was just grandstanding prior to elections on Wednesday but seems its not.

My biggest problem is what if say a team like the Stormers get an injury to say Ntubeni or Kolisi and we go below 40%. We don't have a direct black replacement for Ntubeni so that'd mean someone else has to not play to bring in a quota player like forinstance, bring in Liebenberg for the injured Ntubeni but then you have to drop a guy like Schalk Burger maybe to make room for Carr. I'm not saying Carr should not necessarily make the team in any case on form but the whole thing just gets silly and it is a breading ground for animosity.

There's a problem there, as Carr won't qualify for the quota system as he's not currently seen as a traditional black South African. He's a coloured, so based on these new policies the Government are looking at for quotas, it just on traditional black people. like Ntubeni, Kolisi, Mbonambi, Maku and to some extent Mtawarira.

With that said, I think the Government's method of thinking is a bit skewed. I have no problem with the transformation idea at club level, as it's an ideal area to experiment on, maybe they should rather look at the teams, and the demographic of the area which the clubs represent. take Noordelikes for instance which has been part of the Club Championships the last 3 years. The area in Polokwane they represent has maybe a demographic of 98% white and 2% non-white. Yet, they have about 7 Black and 2 non-white players in their squad. so are they not overcompensating??

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

There's a problem there, as Carr won't qualify for the quota system as he's not currently seen as a traditional black South African. He's a coloured, so based on these new policies the Government are looking at for quotas, it just on traditional black people. like Ntubeni, Kolisi, Mbonambi, Maku and to some extent Mtawarira.

With that said, I think the Government's method of thinking is a bit skewed. I have no problem with the transformation idea at club level, as it's an ideal area to experiment on, maybe they should rather look at the teams, and the demographic of the area which the clubs represent. take Noordelikes for instance which has been part of the Club Championships the last 3 years. The area in Polokwane they represent has maybe a demographic of 98% white and 2% non-white. Yet, they have about 7 Black and 2 non-white players in their squad. so are they not overcompensating??

Oh, bloody hell. I thought it was non-white, not specifically 'traditional black'. In that case we at WP are fooked. That makes no sense though as the only 'black' people in the Cape are migrant workers as the Western and Northern Cape was not settled by the Nguni peoples traditionally and the only reason they are here now is 1) job opportunities and 2) ANC exports to raise the ANC vote in the provinces (because they failed to change the provincial boundaries like they are doing at municipal level to get every damn opposition stronghold outnumbered with their masses of lackeys who they move about and maintain on hand-outs with our own damn tax money). Ntubeni and Kolisi are both imports from the Eastern Cape. I expect our colored community will go absolutely ape**** if/when they realise the exact implications for colored folk.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Oh, bloody hell. In that case we at WP are fooked. That makes no sense though as the only 'black' people in the Cape are migrant workers as the Western and Northern Cape was not settled by the Nguni peoples traditionally and the only reason they are here now is 1) job opportunities and 2) ANC exports to raise the ANC vote in the provinces. Ntubeni and Kolisi are both imports from the Eastern Cape. I expect our colored community will go absolutely ape**** if/when they realise the exact implications for colored folk.

Maybe this will favour you then.

But, the Government will extensively look at a way to get Khayelitsha into the fray, one way or another.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Maybe this will favour you then.

But, the Government will extensively look at a way to get Khayelitsha into the fray, one way or another.

You mean the regional demographic will apply rather than a set quota across the board?

Don't talk about Khayelitsha. Khayelitsha really gets me ticked off. It's not an actual place FFS. All it is is a temporary hole where the 'residants' stay while getting hand-out jobs - from under the noses of white folks and the poor colored community who weren't white enough and now not black enough- taking advantage of the fact that we don't have a black population (or at least didn't have) and that the government are using the same racial policies country wide not taking into account the regional demographics. Ask any person in Khayelitsha where their home is and not a single one of them will name a place inside the province. Now what we have to do as tax payers is pay to service their home away from home and pay to replace the furniture inside and the structure as they burn it down before going back to EP to collect the money.

edit; ... I see I am just starting to ramble now. I'll take a break from posting to calm the **** down.

 

[Shaggy]

It seems that some of the Australian Broadcasters are skeptical about the new format. According to this Sydney Morning Herald article http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-doubts-with-broadcasters-20140505-zr4w8.html ... They don't seem to like the lack of local derbies.

... I wonder what the Broadcasters in New Zealand and South Africa think

EDIT- Here's the SANZAR timeline to finalise that 16th team courtesy of sanzarrugby.com

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/timeline-to-announce-the-18th-super-rugby-team/

 

[steblin]

The 'quota' system is laughable! Have they never heard of 'positive discrimination'??? It's still discrimination at the end of the day. I mean the basics of applying a flat % quota across the board without considering regional demographics is just beyond stupid. I can understand and absolutely agree with a zero tolerance to discrimination, however the way to do it is at the grass roots level, encourage people of all backgrounds to get involved and give the game a try, that eventually has a ripple effect to the top level of the game. The idea that good rugby players would be dropped because of the colour of their skin, regardless of what that skin colour is, is ridiculous. Sorry that has really wound me up.

 

[Icemn]

nice...

4 conferences...

name of the tournament? "Super 24 maybe 25"

next on the list of how to f*** up the game even more...

3 teams, playing each other at once, playing with 8 balls... 3 referees, each one blowing for a team he favors....

 

[The big Kangaroo]

This is pretty funny coming from 1) an Aussie and 2) a Reds fan. My goodness, this is the first year the Aus conference hasn't been the ***** of the competition and we are not done yet.

Not that I diasagree with the points you are making regarding unfair advantages having weaker teams in your conference but it just makes me laugh to hear it from a Reds fan.

Mate Share the joke, I'm guessing that it has something to do with the reds winning in 2011 which I would expect from a Stormers fan. how many south African teams beat the reds in 2011? or something to do with the reds being in 13th. with the Australian Conference you need to remember that it was the only conference to expand. New teams do poorly which is my point about 3 new teams playing out of the south African Conference. also It makes more sense to go by this years forum when discussing something 2 and half seasons away.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Mate Share the joke, I'm guessing that it has something to do with the reds winning in 2011 which I would expect from a Stormers fan. how many south African teams beat the reds in 2011? or something to do with the reds being in 13th. with the Australian Conference you need to remember that it was the only conference to expand. New teams do poorly which is my point about 3 new teams playing out of the south African Conference. also It makes more sense to go by this years forum when discussing something 2 and half seasons away.

The general perception is (and it is backed up by the stats) that the Aussie conference has been to date the weakest one. I'm not saying the Reds weren't in good form in 2011 but no-one can argue they weren't helped hugely by being in a pretty dire conference. As for teams being introduced recently doing poorly that only backs up my point that the Aus conference has been the weakest one to date.

Now I am not saying the stronger SA teams will not benefit from this **** up of a format- quite the contrary- I am saying of anybody it should not be a Reds fan to complain is all.

 

[profitius]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but I think SA could be hardest hit in terms of their standard of rugby. They'll be playing NZ teams less often and their European style rugby could become a lower standard if they're not used to playing against pacy teams.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but I think SA could be hardest hit in terms of their standard of rugby. They'll be playing NZ teams less often and their European style rugby could become a lower standard if they're not used to playing against pacy teams.

I don't know if I can agree with this entirely. Though that depends on what exactly you mean by pace? I'd go as far as saying the Lions are the team in the competition that who (at least traditionally) play at the highest pace. You'll find the SA backs are generally faster than their NZ and Aus counterparts; just watch any Currie Cup game to see the pace these guys play a game at when not going up through the forwards. SO I don't think the SA sides play with less pace as such. But certainly we play with less width generally and tend to play more direct whereas NZ sides in particular are masters at exposing space and making good use of clever offloads and know how to score off a turn-over. So maybe you mean they tend to be backline-orientated more than SA teams in which case I'd fully agree. But the reverse is true as well; their rookies won't get as used to playing in SA (both the style and the environment).

 

[Shaggy]

I don't know if I can agree with this entirely. Though that depends on what exactly you mean by pace? I'd go as far as saying the Lions are the team in the competition that who (at least traditionally) play at the highest pace. You'll find the SA backs are generally faster than their NZ and Aus counterparts; just watch any Currie Cup game to see the pace these guys play a game at when not going up through the forwards. SO I don't think the SA sides play with less pace as such. But certainly we play with less width generally and tend to play more direct whereas NZ sides in particular are masters at exposing space and making good use of clever offloads and know how to score off a turn-over. So maybe you mean they tend to be backline-orientated more than SA teams in which case I'd fully agree. But the reverse is true as well; their rookies won't get as used to playing in SA (both the style and the environment).

Yeah, I think he might mean the tempo of the game in general ... quick recycle and use of the ball etc. While this is just one facet of the game, the comparative strengths of the teams is valid ... will it be a case of the newer weaker teams rising in standard to be competitive with the more established teams, or will the established teams drop their standards/quality. Obviously we want the former to happen, but it could be a bit of both ... anyway, I'm sure the conferences will become competitive eventually ... probably just in time for the next expansion/change

 

[profitius]

Yes tempo would be a more accurate word. The big difference for me is the ball is moving a lot more when NZ teams play and their teams play the best rugby in the world. Its not about the speed of the players.


Stormer you make a good point about the opposite being true too. However I think SA teams benefit more from playing NZ teams because the SA teams are exposed to a superior brand of rugby.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes tempo would be a more accurate word. The big difference for me is the ball is moving a lot more when NZ teams play and their teams play the best rugby in the world. Its not about the speed of the players.


Stormer you make a good point about the opposite being true too. However I think SA teams benefit more from playing NZ teams because the SA teams are exposed to a superior brand of rugby.

In all honesty, NZ are equally benefitting from playing SA sides. We are after all the 2 best teams in the world.

Our tradtional style of play has however evolved the last few years. If we look at that test from last year which everybody was talking about as being the best game in a long time, both teams played at an unbelievable tempo and pace.

But, it came back to bite us as our guys are bigger, and in the end just couldn't keep up.

here's a scenario which nobody seems to be thinking of:
If SA were to remove itself from the Super rugby conference, then NZ would be mostly stuck with the Aussies and the Pacific Island teams. NZ would be exposed to generally the same style of play by all these teams. By the time they play SA, or the NH, the style of play changes dramatically and COULD end up being the thing that causes more losses than wins for the AB's