Four best fully French sides possible

[Big Ewis]

I often wonder how many proper, test-caliber teams we could field. Of course, the single best one we can field doesn't know how to play atm but still this is interesting...I've counted a maximum of 4 full 23-player squads.
With the season starting, a wind of enthusiasm has caught me, and seeing so much action on the first weekend and such a prolific quantity of talent, I've just wasted about half an hour of my fascinating existence concocting this up, with soft simmer on. And a few onions in the mix.

NOTE: this isn't a "look how deep we are" thread or post. It's just really fun to do and hopefully this can be interesting for others the way I've found it to be:

1 - Domingo/Debaty
Chiocci/Menini
Ben Arous/Forestier
Tichit/ Séb Taofifenua

2 - Szar/Kayser
Guirado/Tolofua
Mach/Orioli
Cyril Baille/Jérôme Schuster

3 - Mas/Slimani
Ducalcon/Atonio (or J.B. Poux)
Marc Clerc/Ric
David Attoub/Karim Bougherara

4 - Maestri/Papé/Flanquart
Taofifenua/Vahaamahina/Suta
Mela/Ledevedec/Lassalle
Samson/Loic Jacquet/Millo Chlusky

6 - Dusautoir/Nyanga/Picamoles/Camara
Lauret/Le Roux/Claassen/Lapandry
Ouedraogo/Bonnaire/Galan/Diarra
Bruni/Burban/Chouly/Battut
(soon Charles Ollivon at no.8)

9 - Parra/Machenaud
Pélissié/Paillaugue
Tilous-Bordes/Doussain
Kockott/Dupuy

10 - Talès/Lopez
Plisson/Michalak
Trinh-Duc/Pierre Bernard
Wisniewski/Beauxis

11 - Huget/Andreu
Guitoune/Fall
O'Connor/Teddy Thomas
Arias/Grosso

12 - Fofana/Bastareaud/Lamerat
Fritz/Fickou/David
Mermoz/Nakaitaci/Danty
Le Bourhis/Chavancy/Julien Rey (or Mignardi)

15 - Dulin
Bonneval
Gaetan Germain
J.M Buttin


I reckon with judicious picks to build a well compensated, balanced squad, any of four teams made with these players are test-tested (okay, international-caliber..). I didn't just pick as many French players as I could and threw them all here, all those guys really meet the requirements of high level Rugby respectively for their positions.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Seen better.

 

[Big Ewis]

Seen better.

I understand what you're saying. Just some time ago, I could've added famous French players like William Servat, Andrew Sheridan or Jonny Wilkinson...but unfortunately they're long gone now. God rest their souls...no sorry I meant, they just don't play anymore.
Soon we'll be able to add classic French players such as Steffon Armitage and Toby Flood though, so that somewhat compensates, but in many ways we'll miss Jonatan Vilquinson, the Toulonnais. What a French person...

 

[tituslechmakus]

As far as I can see, they are all French, so why O'Connor as n°11 ?

 

[gaston le gaff]

As far as I can see, they are all French, so why O'Connor as n°11 ?

I'll let BE answer this one homework homework!!!!!!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Interesting question. I think for SA, we probably wouldn't be able to push out more than 3 x 23's that could conceivably be test calibre. If you would allow me to waste my own time (and the readers) and complement this thread with a look at how deep SA could go;

1 - Tendai Mtawarira / Guthro Steenkamp
Heinke van der Merwe / Coenraad Oosthuizen
Thomas du Toit (boy, I'm excited about this kid!) / Wian du Preez

2 - Bismarck du Plessis / Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits / Chiliboy Ralepele
Craig Burden / Tiaan Liebenberg

3 - Frans Malherbe / Jannie du Plessis
Brian Mujati / Marcel van der Merwe
Julian Redelinghuys / Trevor Nyakane (don't know how WP Nel and the rest are fairing)

4 - Eben Etzebeth
Bakkies Botha
Lood de Jager or Flip van der Merwe

5 - Pieter-Steph du Toit / Victor Matfield
Franco van der Merwe / Juandre Kruger
Andries Bekker / Francois van der Merwe

6 - Francois Louw
Heinrich Brussow
Marcel Coetzee

7 - Willem Alberts / Schalk Burger
Juanne Smith / Siya Kolisi
Arno Botha / Jacques Potgieter

8 - Duane Vermeulen
Pierre Spies
Warren Whiteley


9 - Fourie du Preez / Rory Kockott (not capped yet!)
Ruan Pienaar / Francois Hougaard
Cobus Reinach / Jano Vermaak

10 - Handre Pollard / Morne Steyn
Pat Lambie / Johan Goosen
Marnitz Boshoff / Peter Grant

11 - Bryan Habana
Bjorn Basson
Seabelo Senatla

12 - Jean de Villiers / Frans Steyn
Jan Serfontein / Paul Jordaan
Rob Ebersohn / Damian de Allende

13 - Jaque Fourie
Juan de Jongh
JJ Engelbrecht

14 - JP Pietersen
Cornall Hendricks
Gio Aplon

15 - Willie le Roux
Lwazi Mvovo
Zane Kirchner

Admittedly stretched at points in the backline (Kirchner!). I wanted to put in more up-and-commers like Jesse Kriel in for Kirchner etc but thought against it.
In the pack I think our 3rd team might even be better than the first at least on form if not on paper.

 

[Big Ewis]

As far as I can see, they are all French, so why O'Connor as n°11 ?

Marvin O'Connor from Bayonne, not Blair Connor the Aussie from Bordeaux.
Made a few changes btw...

Haha stormer, SA would have no pb filling up those forward spaces !! Btw, Wynand Olivier still is playing very nice Rugby in MP at center, might wanna pick him.

 

[big ginger 8]

Admittedly stretched at points in the backline (Kirchner!).

Kirchner is actually looking somewhat exciting recently!

Thing I may give this a go for Ireland because A I'm bored and B we have more depth than ever. Still obviously won't be as impressive as S.A., France, England and N.Z.

1. Healy/McGrath/Kilcoyne/Cronin
2. Best/Cronin/Strauss/Herring
3. Ross/Moore/White/Furlong
4. Toner/Ryan/Tuohy/McCarthy
5. O'Connell/Henderson/Kearney/Foley
6. O'Mahony/Ruddock/Diack/McLaughlin
7. O'Brien/Henry/O'Donnell/Murphy
8. Heaslip/Copeland/Wilson/McKeon
9. Murray/Reddan/Marmion/Heaney
10. Sexton/Jackson/Madigan/Keatley
11. Fitzgerald/Zebo/Gilroy/McFadden
12. Olding/Marshall/McSharry/Sheridan
13. Henshaw/D'arcy/Earls/Macken
14. Bowe/Trimble/Kearney/Conway
15. Kearney/Payne/Jones/Allen

Some of them I'd be very worried about being near the squad but there are some 4th choice players I wouldn't mind starting.

Not all players are in the order or position I'd use them but as I only used each player once, compromises had to be made.

 

[Peat]

Interesting question. I think for SA, we probably wouldn't be able to push out more than 3 x 23's that could conceivably be test calibre. If you would allow me to waste my own time (and the readers) and complement this thread with a look at how deep SA could go;

Sounds bad, but tbh, I start pulling faces when I start considering a 3rd choice England 23... we just don't have 6 props in either position that would really grace an international field.

What happened to that ginger fattie Kitshoff btw?

Ewis, how many of those 3rd/4th choice guys are you really happy with?

 

[Big Ewis]

Kirchner is actually looking somewhat exciting recently!

Thing I may give this a go for Ireland because A I'm bored and B we have more depth than ever. Still obviously won't be as impressive as S.A., France, England and N.Z.

It's all about the 23 guys you've got on the field in the end. Ireland won the 6N, didn't they ? ...Seriously, I've got major memory issues, didn't they just win the 6N ??..

Sounds bad, but tbh, I start pulling faces when I start considering a 3rd choice England 23... we just don't have 6 props in either position that would really grace an international field.

What happened to that ginger fattie Kitshoff btw?

Ewis, how many of those 3rd/4th choice guys are you really happy with?

oh all of them, Peat. Wouldn't have made this thread otherwise. Top 14 had just started, and I'm beginning to know each team with real depth this season, not superficially like before for some. Those are all guys that have impressed on more than just a couple of occasions, France really is deep as fk man. I'm quite sure the deepest Rugby nation, forwards and backs altogether (S.A. is deeper with their forwards alone for e.g.).
The only guy who I put in there out of reputation is Bougherara, the Toulon Tighthead. But I'd looooooove to have all those guys placed intelligently to compose 4 full 23-man squads, with coaches (I'd pick too), and see them play international sides. You'd be surprised with the results, trust me.
Some positions I had to retain myself as I was limited to a given number. Winger for e.g.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Right the Rosbiff-
1.Corbisiero/Marler/Vunipola/Mullan
2.Hartley/Webber/Youngs/George
3.Cole/Wilson/Sinkler/Brookes
4.Launchbury/Parling/Kitchener/Kruis
5.Lawes/Attwood/Slater/Stooke
6.Wood/Haskell/Croft/Fearns
7.Robshaw/Kvesic/Fraser/Johnson
8.Vunipola/Morgan/Ewers/Dickinson
9.Care/Youngs/Dickson/Wigglesworth
10.Farrell/Ford/Burns/Cipriani
11.Yarde/May/Watson/Monye
12.Twelvetrees/Eastmond/Barritt/Slade/Hill
13.Tuilagi/Burrell/Joseph/Trinder
14.Nowell/Wade/Rokoduguni/Ashton/
15.Brown/Foden/Tait/Daly

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Haha stormer, SA would have no pb filling up those forward spaces !! Btw, Wynand Olivier still is playing very nice Rugby in MP at center, might wanna pick him.

I didn't pick Olivier for the same reason I halted for long moments before picking Basson, Kirchner, Spies and a few others. They are Bulls through and through but that's a SA provincial thing and probably not that relevant in this day and age. A number of Sharks player also didn't make it for teh same reason. We really could make a number of really good packs. There might be questions over balance and we'd be looking at our overseas based players a lot more and a lot of players who'd probably lean toward either the green side or the elderly but if I were to say to anyone having followed SR and CC this year, 'let's start Nizaam Carr at 7 for the Bokke', they'd probably say, 'awesome, hope he does as well in tighter games.' The backs though.. past 2 teams we are looking thin.

Sounds bad, but tbh, I start pulling faces when I start considering a 3rd choice England 23... we just don't have 6 props in either position that would really grace an international field.

What happened to that ginger fattie Kitshoff btw?

Ewis, how many of those 3rd/4th choice guys are you really happy with?

Kitshoff is still starting for teh Stormers. He is a very interesting prop. You never see him take a backward step, not one single time. In the same breath you never truly see him dominate an opposition TH. He makes his tackles no problem and is handy in clearing rucks but that's about as much as you get. That said I just described Mtawarira ATM. I don't know what our props overseas are doing bar that Steenkamp I see is going backwards while our incumbents in Jannie du Plessis and Mtawarira are spent forces seemingly. Here the fans are calling for Frans Malherbe and Marcel van der Merwe to be our TH props. TBF to Meyer he has started Malherbe ahead of Jannie the last two seasons when fit but that is not a given clearly seeing how many games Du Plessis has featured in. Marcel is not renowned for his scrummaging though he should be able to hold his own no worse than Jannie but the guy is dynamic; a very useful ball carrier with an eye for the try line, good hands and one of SA's best ball pilferers in SR this season, in fact our leading ball pilferer/minute if you allow that the top ones had a lot more game time. I get excited about thinking of him, Bismarck, Louw/Coetzee and Vermeulen all in the same pack; opposition will have a hell of a time keeping posession.

oh all of them, Peat. Wouldn't have made this thread otherwise. Top 14 had just started, and I'm beginning to know each team with real depth this season, not superficially like before for some. Those are all guys that have impressed on more than just a couple of occasions, France really is deep as fk man. I'm quite sure the deepest Rugby nation, forwards and backs altogether (S.A. is deeper with their forwards alone for e.g.).
The only guy who I put in there out of reputation is Bougherara, the Toulon Tighthead. But I'd looooooove to have all those guys placed intelligently to compose 4 full 23-man squads, with coaches (I'd pick too), and see them play international sides. You'd be surprised with the results, trust me.
Some positions I had to retain myself as I was limited to a given number. Winger for e.g.

I know what you mean. A lot of the 'smaller names' are the ones on current form. I think for anyone not really into a specific league the lesser known players won't look all that impressive as a name in black and white. I mean you have 16 loose forwards named there and on any given day the 17th you havn't named could put the first name on the list to shame.


Also, a good template for 1 squad of 23;

1 (2 players)
2 (2 players)
3 (2 players)
4/5 (3 players)
6/7/8 (4 players)
9 (2 players)
10 (2 players)
11/14 (2 players)
12/13 (3 players)
15 (1 player or two if you have 1 less center)

I mean, I see a lot of starting XV's but Big E specifically specified specifics and that was 23! And what a beautiful prime number it is!! XV is such a whore!

 

[Draggs]

Wales (here we go...)

Based on Gatland's selections more than mine

15 Halfpenny,WilliamsL, Amos, Morgan
14 Cuthbert, Walker, Prydie, Brew
13 Davies, Allen, Morgan?, Would be Owen Williams; not sure now
12 Roberts, WilliamsS, Dixon, Beck
11 North, WilliamsJ, Robinson, Howells
10 Biggar, Priestland, Hook, WilliamsO/Patchell
09 Phillips, Davies, Williams, Webb/Rees/Evans/but Gatland would say Lloyd
01 Jenkins,James, Bevington???, Evans
02 Hibbard, Owens, Rees, Phillips
03 JonesA, Lee, JonesR, Mitchell (Gatland would select Jarvis)
04 JonesAW, Ball, Davies, Peers
05 Charteris, Evans, Reed, Coombs
06 Lydiate, Turnbull, Shingler, King
07 Warburton, Tipuric, Navidi, Lewis
08 Faletau, Baker, McCusker, Pitman?

Ouch...

 

[Big Ewis]

stormer: yeah S.A. have crazy depth - clearly the best in the world - in the forwards. Like, France has lots of quality players throughout as exposed, so we have lots of good/very good forwards at our disposition, but S.A. just have a countless number and they're all powerful/good enough to play at nearly the highest level, if not *the* highest level. I'm discovering more and more players as I watch with more attention the Top 14, and I'll discover a new Saffer like every weekend almost. I see a forward making good ground, strong carrier, good in the rucks - wait for the name, commentator goes something like "Marais" or "Botha" half the time ! I go "aaahhh, yeh...another Saffer, of course.."

I mean - TOP 14 SOUTH AFRICAN FORWARDS (2nd 3rd rowers):
both Marais (Bordeaux and Brive), Vosloo, Bernard Le Roux, Antonie Claassen (love that guy, whacky personality), the Racing second row (fkng good), Jannie Bornman (Castres), Berend Botha (Bordeaux), Pedrie Wannenurg, Jacques Cronje (RM92), Bakkies, Juan Smith...

Mostly second and third rowers, South Africa has it easy. Eaaaasy. And yes, 23 is pretty sexy, but don't be dissin XV like dat doe...

Saffycen: haha rosbif. But England don't even need good players to be good !! In the fullback category, I'd make the comment that Nick in Clermont is currently playing with reckless...Abendanon. He loves a nice counter, and is replacing a very good Lee Byrne seamlessly. He's keeping J.M Buttin on the bench who, it seems, will never get that playing time !! Still very young though...

Hey Draggs no Lee Byrne at 15 ?

 

[Darwin]

I'm bored so.....

The top sides are based more on Hansen's selections than my personal preferences. I've only selected players eligible for AB's selection at the moment, so no Hayman, Gear, SBW, Kahui etc...

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 700"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]B[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]T Woodcock[/TD]
[TD]J Moody[/TD]
[TD]K Hames[/TD]
[TD]J MackIntosh[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]D Coles[/TD]
[TD]N Harris[/TD]
[TD]M Matu'u[/TD]
[TD]B Funnell[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]O Franks[/TD]
[TD]C Faumuina[/TD]
[TD]B Tameifuna[/TD]
[TD]M Fia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]B Retallick[/TD]
[TD]L Romano[/TD]
[TD]C Retallick[/TD]
[TD]M Fitzgerald[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]S Whitelock[/TD]
[TD]D Bird[/TD]
[TD]J Broadhurst[/TD]
[TD]T Franklin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]J Kaino[/TD]
[TD]L Messam[/TD]
[TD]B Shields[/TD]
[TD]L Squire[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]R McCaw[/TD]
[TD]M Todd[/TD]
[TD]A Savea[/TD]
[TD]S Christie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]K Read[/TD]
[TD]V Vito[/TD]
[TD]L Whitelock[/TD]
[TD]N Manu[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]A Smith[/TD]
[TD]T Kerr-Barlow[/TD]
[TD]A Ellis[/TD]
[TD]W Heinz[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]D Carter[/TD]
[TD]B Barrett[/TD]
[TD]T Taylor[/TD]
[TD]L Sopoaga[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]J Savea[/TD]
[TD]P Osbourne[/TD]
[TD]T Marshall[/TD]
[TD]J Lowe[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]M Nonu[/TD]
[TD]F Saili[/TD]
[TD]C Ngatai[/TD]
[TD]S Treeby[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]C Smith[/TD]
[TD]R Crotty[/TD]
[TD]G Moala[/TD]
[TD]R Buckman[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]B Smith[/TD]
[TD]C Jane[/TD]
[TD]L Visinia[/TD]
[TD]J McNicholl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]I Dagg[/TD]
[TD]C Piutau[/TD]
[TD]G Anscombe*[/TD]
[TD]M Proctor[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]K Mealamu[/TD]
[TD]L Coltman[/TD]
[TD]Q MacDonald[/TD]
[TD]A Dixon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]W Crockett[/TD]
[TD]J Toomaga-Allen[/TD]
[TD]P Manu[/TD]
[TD]T Perry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]B Franks[/TD]
[TD]B Afeaki[/TD]
[TD]N Laulala[/TD]
[TD]A Ta'avao[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]P Tuipolotu[/TD]
[TD]J Thrush[/TD]
[TD]J Wheeler[/TD]
[TD]J Bekhuis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]S Cane[/TD]
[TD]S Luatua[/TD]
[TD]L Braid[/TD]
[TD]J Taufua[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]TJ Perenara[/TD]
[TD]A Pulu[/TD]
[TD]B Hall[/TD]
[TD]B Weber[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]A Cruden[/TD]
[TD]C Slade[/TD]
[TD]B Aki*[/TD]
[TD]T Bleyendaal*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]M Fekitoa[/TD]
[TD]T Nanai-Williams[/TD]
[TD]F Halai[/TD]
[TD]R Fruean[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

*Leaving NZ soon, but would still be eligible for the AB's currently

Conclusions:
- Ridiculous depth in the loose-forwards. The likes of Gareth Evans, John Hardie, Brendon O'Connor, Elliot Dixon, Peter Saili, Blade Thomson etc didn't even get a mention.
- Limited depth at LH prop and hooker. There are plenty of serviceable hookers, but few that look like test options at the moment. Behind Coles and Mealamu there is very little between the rest of the hookers. The likes of Rhys Marshall, Codie Taylor, James Parsons, Ged Robinson, Brayden Mitchell, Tom McCartney etc could all probably warrant a spot in the "top 4 23's"....
- Fantastic depth at 10.
- Limited depth in the midfield, and not quite as much depth out wide as we have been used to in the past (mainly as we are bleeding wings overseas at a ridiculous rate).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Right, so how long until we're all debating who would win in a world cup where sides can only put out their "D" side?

 

[Darwin]

Right, so how long until we're all debating who would win in a world cup where sides can only put out their "D" side?

I don't think there would be much of a debate. New Zealand clearly have the best "D" side. We would go into the tournament as favourites, choke against France in the semi finals (which will of course be the referee's fault), then South Africa would go on to win the final versus France 18-15 (6 drop goals to 5).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think there would be much of a debate. New Zealand clearly have the best "D" side. We would go into the tournament as favourites, choke against France in the semi finals (which will of course be the referee's fault), then South Africa would go on to win the final versus France 18-15 (6 drop goals to 5).

You say that, but England's 'D' side, from above, is better than most 'A' sides we've put out in the last decade :lol:

 

[Peat]

You say that, but England's 'D' side, from above, is better than most 'A' sides we've put out in the last decade :lol:

Saffycen did 15s, not 23s. Big difference. Our D side would be far, far weaker. Presumed front row of Moon/Harrison, Buchanan/LCD, Collier/Cooper-Woolley. No way that's international standard so I never got beyond that. Actually, thats a lie, never really got beyond the C team 23.'s front row. Still, I'm bored, so I'll sketch it out...

England
Brown, Yarde, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, May, Farrell, Care; Corbs, Webber, Wilson D, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood T, Robshaw, Morgan; Hartley, Marler, Cole, Parling, Vunipola B, Youngs B, Burns, Nowell

Goode, Ashton, Burrell, Eastmond, Wade, Ford, Dickson L; Vunipola M, Youngs T, Brookes, Attwood, Kitchener, Croft, Haskell, Ewers; Gray, Mullan, Thomas, Slater, Kvesic, Simpson, Cipriani, Daly

Foden, Sharples, Trinder, Barritt, Rokoduguni, Slade, Lewis; Waller A, Ward, Sinckler, Kruis, Matthews, Gibson, Fraser, Dickinson; George, Catt, Wilson S, Stooke, Johnson, Robson, Devoto, Tait

Pennell, Strettle, Joseph, Allen, Monye, Steenson, Wigglesworth; Harrison R, Buchanan, Collier, Palmer, Day, Garvey, Wallace, Ewers; Cowan-Dickie, Moon, Knight, Myall, Fearns, Harrison S, Hooley, Watson

Those teams are probably a little out of order in places but I think the point is clear. Come the half-backs and front rows, things get stretched...

I'll try expanding BG8's for giggles as well

1. Healy/McGrath; Kilcoyne/Cronin; Buckley/Warwick; Bent/Black
2. Best/Cronin; Strauss/Herring; Varley/Sherry; Casey/Harris-Wright
3. Ross/Moore; White/Fitzpatrick; Furlong/Ah You; Archer/Lutton
4. Toner; Tuohy; McCarthy; Stevenson
5. O'Connell/Henderson; Ryan/Foley; Kearney/O'Callaghan; McLaughlin/Denton
6. O'Mahony/Murphy; Ruddock; Diack; Muldoon
7. O'Brien; Henry/O'Donnell; Faloon; Ryan/Jennings
8. Heaslip; Copeland; Wilson/McKeon; Conan
9. Murray/Reddan; Marmion/Heaney; Boss/Marshall; McGrath/Sheridan
10. Sexton/Jackson; Madigan/Keatley; Hanrahan/Humphreys; Marsh/Carty
11. Bowe/Zebo/Gilroy/Finn
12. Olding/Marshall/McSharry/McCloskey
13. Henshaw/D'arcy/Cave/Macken
14. Trimble/Earls/Kearney/Conway
15. Kearney/Payne/Jones/Leader
23. Fitzgerald/McFadden/Allen/Scholes

The drop between the 3rd and 4th team is pretty rancid tbh

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You say that, but which other nations have that much depth?

England may not be the best in the world, but we do have a lot of professional standard players due to the number of pro sides we have (/trickle down to our playing numbers, I guess).

Pennell, Strettle, Joseph, Allen, Monye, Steenson, Wigglesworth; Harrison R, Buchanan, Collier, Palmer, Day, Garvey, Wallace, Ewers; Cowan-Dickie, Moon, Knight, Myall, Fearns, Harrison S, Hooley, Watson

That reads like a decent enough Premiership side - how many other nations could boast the same once they've gotten past the first 69 players?
I, obviously, wouldn't put that side out in the 6N or anything, but against other countrie's 4ths....I'd fancy our chances.