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Fall out from the Autumn Internationals

Nobblynick

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Who stands to gain the most and lose the most from depleted squads during the Autumn Internationals?

Granted the 'Pony and Trap' (LV) Cup occupies two weekends, but given how tight the league is this year, will it be a big influence on the season?

Answers on a postcard.....
 
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As usual, the league will get freak results as the clubs who develop players get stung the hardest. Cannot think of another pro sport where such disregard is given to the premier domestic campaign for Cash-spinning friendlies.
 
Hard to say - most teams are that injury struck that the internationals won't hit them as hard as they're missing a number of their internationals anyhow.

I'd say Quins or Sarries, but they've got decent depth in most positions.

Maybe Tigers? Their backrow is depleted as it is and they're going to lose Mafi and Waldrom, amongst a few others (though again, they've got decent depth in most positions - Ford in for Flood, Smith in for Tuilagi etc.)
 
As usual, the league will get freak results as the clubs who develop players get stung the hardest. Cannot think of another pro sport where such disregard is given to the premier domestic campaign for Cash-spinning friendlies.

That's one way of looking at it. For many people however the national team will always take priority; 11 or so tests a year doesn't seem too much to ask. Of course, I can see how only playing in the 6 Nations year in and year out is bound to remain exciting, with a Rugby World Cup squeezed in every four years or so...
 
Biggest losers by far are the Tigers. Waldrom and Mafi called-up on top of Croft and Salvi being out. Possibility of losing their starting 9, 10, 12 and 13 (Youngs and Allen might be sent back tbf). Losing their best front row player and their best second rower. Games against Wasps and Bath - mid-table teams they're expected to beat, but might not with all the call-ups/the lack of call-ups for Bath and Wasps.

Biggest winners could be Gloucester. Only three call-ups (Morgan, Sharples, Hamilton), and are playing Quins and Sarries at the right time (although Glos are missing a lot of players to injury). Exeter too - a team high up the league with few call-ups.
 
Thinking about it, will Tigers lose Mulipola and Castro too?
That'd be four out of their 6 match day front rowers gone.
 
Haha, didn't even think about them. Bad times for the Tigs. Mulipola injured for up to 6 weeks anyway, according to BBC.

We could see something like this:

1. Stankovich
2. Chuter
3. Brookes
4. Kitchener
5. Deacon
6. ???
7. Thorpe
8. Crane
9. Youngs/Harrison
10. Ford
11. Goneva
12. Allen/Bowden(?)
13. Smith
14. Hamilton
15. Murphy

16. ???
17. ???
18. ???
19. Slater
20. ???
21. Harrison/Young
22. Bowden/???
23. Thompstone

if there was ever a time to play them...
 
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Kieran Brookes has gone to Rotherham (I think?) for the season as well, so will need to be whisked back pretty sharpish!
I think Goneva might have been called up for international duty as well - so Thompstone to start, Tait or Benjamin on the bench? (or are they both crocked?)
 
I know Benjamin has been out, not sure about Tait. Wouldn't be surprised if he was out. Both would be assets atm, Tigers need some pace in their backline.
 
Kieran Brookes was an England Saxons player in 2011.

He was Irish qualified and turned down an offer from Munster to join Leicester. No idea why he did that, as he could have been getting some decent game time with a top RaboPro12/HCup team in Munster (if Archer can get game time for them I'm sure Brookes could) but chose the option that sees him stuck behind two quality tightheads in Castro and Cole and now on loan to Doncaster as a result instead.

Cole and Castro will be there a while too, he will have to leave to get some game time unless he wants to stay third/fourth choice forever there.
 
It's an odd decision. Not even just not going to Munster - there are plenty of clubs, England or otherwise, that could do with a tighthead or two. To put yourself behind Cole and Castro is either bold or silly.
 
It's an odd decision. Not even just not going to Munster - there are plenty of clubs, England or otherwise, that could do with a tighthead or two. To put yourself behind Cole and Castro is either bold or silly.

This. This was the real decision that needs explanation.
 
It's an odd decision. Not even just not going to Munster - there are plenty of clubs, England or otherwise, that could do with a tighthead or two. To put yourself behind Cole and Castro is either bold or silly.

Plus Julian White was at the club at the time he signed, and Logovi'i Mulipola also covered tighthead last season, so he was fifth choice tighthead last season. Surely he should have realised that would be the case if he joined Leicester?

He was an England Saxon and now has been completely forgotten as even anywhere near an England Saxon.
 
Year or two at Leicester learning from the best before moving on?
Though the lack of first team game time would surely hurt his job prospects going forwards.
I think the season he signed was when everyone expected Castro to leave Tigers, but then he re-signed - perhaps he expected Castro to not be around, and he'd be 2nd choice?
 
Brookes played all three front-row positions the season before he joined Leicester, I think the answer to his move might be found there. Might. I don't know. But it makes some sort of sense.
 
That's one way of looking at it. For many people however the national team will always take priority; 11 or so tests a year doesn't seem too much to ask. Of course, I can see how only playing in the 6 Nations year in and year out is bound to remain exciting, with a Rugby World Cup squeezed in every four years or so...

International rugby has already reached saturation point. You can't fit any more tests in, i personally think we should do away with at least 1 or 2.
Why the hell should teams be able to add tests outside of the IRB window like Wales and England have? There should be a clear international window. The Wales-Australia test last year for example ruined the Scarlets chances of going through to the HC quarters, it completely undermines them. On the 30th of November (outside of the international window) the Ospreys and Blues are facing each other, they will be without all of their internationals.
IT IS A JOKE.

The domestic game is being treated as a distant second, when it is the key to growing the game commercially and world wide.
 
International rugby has already reached saturation point. You can't fit any more tests in, i personally think we should do away with at least 1 or 2.
Why the hell should teams be able to add tests outside of the IRB window like Wales and England have? There should be a clear international window. The Wales-Australia test last year for example ruined the Scarlets chances of going through to the HC quarters, it completely undermines them. On the 30th of November (outside of the international window) the Ospreys and Blues are facing each other, they will be without all of their internationals.
IT IS A JOKE.The domestic game is being treated as a distant second, when it is the key to growing the game commercially and world wide.



I agree with your sentiments and comments entirely.............oher than the bit about the Welsh clubs as not really my bag!
 
International rugby has already reached saturation point. You can't fit any more tests in, i personally think we should do away with at least 1 or 2.
Why the hell should teams be able to add tests outside of the IRB window like Wales and England have? There should be a clear international window. The Wales-Australia test last year for example ruined the Scarlets chances of going through to the HC quarters, it completely undermines them. On the 30th of November (outside of the international window) the Ospreys and Blues are facing each other, they will be without all of their internationals.
IT IS A JOKE.

The domestic game is being treated as a distant second, when it is the key to growing the game commercially and world wide.

Fairly certain all international matches are going to get larger international television exposure as well as money (thus the reason Teh Mite calls it cash spinning). That money however goes to the RFU, WRU etc, at least in terms of attendance. With that money - more money is put into developing the grass roots etc. Considering Welsh teams rely soley on the WRU - who generate more money from international tests than Scarlets games (indeed the 15,000 seat stadiums, which if packed still fall 60,000 short of Millennium Stadium) have little to really complain about. That is unless you think the Scarlet's (and other Welsh clubs) could surive without WRU hand outs.

I agree there should be a clear international window. What matches aren't within the window? In terms of growing the game globally - I feel that's a massive cop out claiming that's the role of clubs. For starters, the November international window is one of the few chances tier 2 nations get the chance to tour and play tier 1 opposition. How would England NOT playing Fiji be good for the growth of the game? Or France v Samoa? Or Scotland v Tonga. In fact, this terrible injustice to clubs is one of the few times teir 2 teams are at all able to field their best teams. But I suppose the expansion of the game is best limited to the select few countries which can afford a professional league.
 
Fairly certain all international matches are going to get larger international television exposure as well as money (thus the reason Teh Mite calls it cash spinning). That money however goes to the RFU, WRU etc, at least in terms of attendance. With that money - more money is put into developing the grass roots etc. Considering Welsh teams rely soley on the WRU - who generate more money from international tests than Scarlets games (indeed the 15,000 seat stadiums, which if packed still fall 60,000 short of Millennium Stadium) have little to really complain about. That is unless you think the Scarlet's (and other Welsh clubs) could surive without WRU hand outs.

I agree there should be a clear international window. What matches aren't within the window? In terms of growing the game globally - I feel that's a massive cop out claiming that's the role of clubs. For starters, the November international window is one of the few chances tier 2 nations get the chance to tour and play tier 1 opposition. How would England NOT playing Fiji be good for the growth of the game? Or France v Samoa? Or Scotland v Tonga. In fact, this terrible injustice to clubs is one of the few times teir 2 teams are at all able to field their best teams. But I suppose the expansion of the game is best limited to the select few countries which can afford a professional league.

What i meant was the domestic rugby season has the greatest room for growth. International rugby at the top level as i said has reached saturation point.

Welsh regions are privately owned, the WRU helps out. I don't think the regions could survive without their handouts, but at the same time i don't think they should be completely undermined by team Wales and the WRU all the time. That's one of the main reasons why no one supports them. The future of Welsh rugby needs a strong club/regional scene which is respected by the WRU.

The test window is from Nov 3rd to the 25th. England v New Zealand and Wales v Australia are on the 1st of December, both on the same day as the World Cup seeding draw!
Have a look at this article to see what's going on behind the scenes.
http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/index.php/featured-post/all-blacks-get-1-5m-fee-to-face-england/

I didn't claim that growing the game globally was the role of the clubs.
What i meant was that it is where the globalisation of rugby will naturally come from. That is where the players will come from and that is how the game will gain exposure.
Not the same international tours and tournaments every year, not the closed shop old boys club for the top nations.
More pro leagues and more players from emerging nations playing in other pro leagues is exactly what the game needs to grow, so that they don't get blocked from playing internationally.

Look at the tier 2 nations now.
It is extremely difficult for a foreign player to get a contract at a European club, nigh on imposible in super rugby. For EU member citizens, Islanders and Saffas (not tier 2 i know) it is easier but still difficult. If they do it's usually under terms that they don't play many tests a year, and understandably so to be honest putting myself in the shoes of the clubs/regions. With France and England now tightening restrictions on foreign players, you will probably see even less in the future. These nations will have less players playing a good standard of rugby.
 
Fairly certain all international matches are going to get larger international television exposure as well as money (thus the reason Teh Mite calls it cash spinning). That money however goes to the RFU, WRU etc, at least in terms of attendance. With that money - more money is put into developing the grass roots etc. Considering Welsh teams rely soley on the WRU - who generate more money from international tests than Scarlets games (indeed the 15,000 seat stadiums, which if packed still fall 60,000 short of Millennium Stadium) have little to really complain about. That is unless you think the Scarlet's (and other Welsh clubs) could surive without WRU hand outs.
As true as that may be, the biggest assets to the WRU are the players themselves. The WRU isn't nobly dishing out money because they're the great Samaritans that will save Welsh rugby. It's because they're financially investing in the regions so that the WRU's continued success at the top level goes on. It's an entirely symbiotic relationship.
 

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