F1 Racing

[pagliaccio_euforico]

If you remove yuki it would have no affect on the constructor's championship. An average driver or even an above average rookie would have taken alpha tauri to the promised land this season.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The way I've seen it put is imagine 2 hypothetical scenarios, you have a grid full of Hamilton clones and another full of Verstappen clones. Which one do you think will have the most crashes and racing incidents?

I think it would be hard to claim that the grid of Hamilton clones will be the ones causing crashes.

 

[Reiser99]

Found this interesting on BBC analysis. Obviously it's not a direct quote from the stewards, but it makes sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59542219

Did he think Verstappen had driven dangerously?

The answer to that from the stewards in Jeddah is, effectively, yes he is. Verstappen was the one on the inside, with Hamilton alongside on the outside. Verstappen went in too deep and ran wide, whether deliberately or because he lost control, so it's his fault, they ruled.

So how is this any different from Brazil? Pretty much everyone neutral has hinted or implied that Max should have got a penalty for that. It does matter too as it would have dropped him down to third and Hamilton would be leading now. That would mean Max can't be his usual dangerous self as he would know a DNF would cost him the championship.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Found this interesting on BBC analysis. Obviously it's not a direct quote from the stewards, but it makes sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59542219

Did he think Verstappen had driven dangerously?

The answer to that from the stewards in Jeddah is, effectively, yes he is. Verstappen was the one on the inside, with Hamilton alongside on the outside. Verstappen went in too deep and ran wide, whether deliberately or because he lost control, so it's his fault, they ruled.

So how is this any different from Brazil? Pretty much everyone neutral has hinted or implied that Max should have got a penalty for that. It does matter too as it would have dropped him down to third and Hamilton would be leading now. That would mean Max can't be his usual dangerous self as he would know a DNF would cost him the championship.

It's ridiculous reading what Verstappen thinks about Brazil "both cars went off the track", yeah no **** Sherlock, because YOU forced that. Had Verstappen not dived up the inside like he did, Hamilton would have made the corner. Hamilton only went off the track because Verstappen forced him off, not because he was already going off himself. If he is genuinely clueless that he is at fault, that's almost more worrying than a driver making a calculated choice to be dirty, it means he literally has no idea what anyone else on the track is doing and is only thinking about himself.

 

[ncurd]

Seams like there is going to be some reminding about what happened last time a driver took another out in the last race of the season.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hopefully Checo can do it for him!

 

[ncurd]

Hopefully Checo can do it for him!

Have to feel if that were the case the entire team would get thrown out (and more if they got the Alpha Tauri's involved in a larger conspiracy), the closest we've got is 2008 Singapore which I'm sure Massa is still rightly bitter about (problem being you can't void an entire race, Renault should of absolutely had their results voided though and chucked out the entire season).

Not saying Hamilton/Verstappen should be treated with impunity but every other driver should be sensible stay the hell out of it especially Bottas/Perez.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I was joking to be fair.

I don't think you could DQ Max or Lewis for something they didn't do unless Checo or Bottas did something ridiculous. If one is defending hard after a pitstop and they collide I don't think there's much that can be done, defending track position and slowing the opposition down is an obvious and legitimate tactic to employ. The fallout would be outrageous though, a lot of asterisks getting thrown about by fans (although that's going to happen already let's be honest).

My ideal race would be Max sticking it on pole and coasting off, you'd get 50 odd laps of listening to Hamilton whinge and criticise his team, beautiful. Possible with the engine advantage but I don't think this weekend will go swimmingly for anyone.

 

[ncurd]

I was joking to be fair.

I don't think you could DQ Max or Lewis for something they didn't do unless Checo or Bottas did something ridiculous. If one is defending hard after a pitstop and they collide I don't think there's much that can be done, defending track position and slowing the opposition down is an obvious and legitimate tactic to employ. The fallout would be outrageous though, a lot of asterisks getting thrown about by fans (although that's going to happen already let's be honest).

My ideal race would be Max sticking it on pole and coasting off, you'd get 50 odd laps of listening to Hamilton whinge and criticise his team, beautiful. Possible with the engine advantage but I don't think this weekend will go swimmingly for anyone.

My ideal race would be the same but for either driver (I'd prefer Hamilton to win but its not worth getting bent over). I just want a clean race weekend.

Yeah I think those two (or another affilated driver) it would have to be a clear and obvious attempt to take the driver out. (Or a Piquet Jr. style expose in the aftermath basically an admission that's what they did). You'd essentially have to prove there was a conspiracy to commit the act even if Lewis/Max weren't aware.

For Lewis/Max it should be a lot more 'don't you dare take the other driver out through aggressive maunvere's' although its less likely to happen with Lewis because you're just as likely to DNF yourself and he needs 0.5 points. Which is why in the past its always been the guy who didn't have to finish.

I just hope it doesn't happen because of an incident like Siverstone or Monza where a penalty itself would be harsh.

The good thing is Abu Dhabi has had 4 safety cars in total (2018, 2012 x2, 2010) with massive run offs. There should only be a coming together if the other doesn't back off and last weekend made it clear they will ask them to swap places. So there is no good reason there should be a collision unless the guy behind is being a massive tool or the guy in front does something dangerous (like suddenly slam on the breaks with the other guy behind him).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

My ideal race would be the same but for either driver (I'd prefer Hamilton to win but its not worth getting bent over). I just want a clean race weekend.

Yeah I think those two (or another affilated driver) it would have to be a clear and obvious attempt to take the driver out. (Or a Piquet Jr. style expose in the aftermath basically an admission that's what they did). You'd essentially have to prove there was a conspiracy to commit the act even if Lewis/Max weren't aware.

For Lewis/Max it should be a lot more 'don't you dare take the other driver out through aggressive maunvere's' although its less likely to happen with Lewis because you're just as likely to DNF yourself and he needs 0.5 points. Which is why in the past its always been the guy who didn't have to finish.

I just hope it doesn't happen because of an incident like Siverstone or Monza where a penalty itself would be harsh.

The good thing is Abu Dhabi has had 4 safety cars in total (2018, 2012 x2, 2010) with massive run offs. There should only be a coming together if the other doesn't back off and last weekend made it clear they will ask them to swap places. So there is no good reason there should be a collision unless the guy behind is being a massive tool or the guy in front does something dangerous (like suddenly slam on the breaks with the other guy behind him).

Agree with all that, except for me it's a case of disliking Hamilton more. Abu Dhabi has never really had the most entertaining finales, Hamilton backing Rosberg up and Alonso not being able to get past Petrov was about as tense as it ever got so it should be clean.

These two hate each other though, it'll likely be as tense a finale as I can remember if the cars are competitive. Schumacher and Hakkinen/Alonso, Vettel and Alonso, and even Hamilton and Rosberg respected each other far more. We know neither driver or team will be afraid to play dirty if they are desperate.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He's always been like this, he's a lunatic. Only difference is now his car is fast enough to properly compete.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

God this forum is tedious when it comes to Verstappen.

"Only difference is his car is fast enough to compete". At least acknowledge that he's the quickest driver on the grid, and has been for at least two seasons now, probably three. In the past three seasons he has 6 penalty points, half of what Hamilton has. In the same time period he has taken out one driver (Ham Monza) to Hamilton's three (Albon x2, Ver x1).

Even this year he only started driving like he currently is after he was collided with by Merc twice resulting in a DNF, a 9th place due to damage and a 20 place grid penalty in races he'd have come p2 in at worst. Is it correct, no, but acting like Verstappen is the same driver he was as a rookie and that Hamilton is some Saint is ridiculous. Since RB have had a car that could occasionally compete with Merc, Hamilton has been adjudged to have caused more collisions and racked up more penalty points. And again three of Hamilton's points* were for causing collisions v two for Verstappen.

This championship race isn't a dirty racer v a clean one like Schumacher v Hakkinen. It's two dirty drivers against each other, one is just more calculated and the other more aggressive.

*6 points for three incidents.

 

[ncurd]

Fastest in the grid is one of the biggest nonsense things people talk about in F1. Unless drivers are given the same chance in the same vehicle its impossible to tell. Especially when said cars have advantages on different tracks with different profiles. All we really know is which driver are pretty damn good Alonso, Hamilton & Verstappen. Which are past it Vettle and Raikkonen. Decent Journeymen . Young but talented. There cause they have sugar daddy (or actual daddy).

Suggesting the definitive fastest driver is just completely bone headed.

 

[ncurd]

Just for the record I do think Verstappen has matured the past two seasons but hes honestly lost the plot in the latter part of this season.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

God this forum is tedious when it comes to Verstappen.

"Only difference is his car is fast enough to compete". At least acknowledge that he's the quickest driver on the grid, and has been for at least two seasons now, probably three. In the past three seasons he has 6 penalty points, half of what Hamilton has. In the same time period he has taken out one driver (Ham Monza) to Hamilton's three (Albon x2, Ver x1).

Even this year he only started driving like he currently is after he was collided with by Merc twice resulting in a DNF, a 9th place due to damage and a 20 place grid penalty in races he'd have come p2 in at worst. Is it correct, no, but acting like Verstappen is the same driver he was as a rookie and that Hamilton is some Saint is ridiculous. Since RB have had a car that could occasionally compete with Merc, Hamilton has been adjudged to have caused more collisions and racked up more penalty points. And again three of Hamilton's points* were for causing collisions v two for Verstappen.

This championship race isn't a dirty racer v a clean one like Schumacher v Hakkinen. It's two dirty drivers against each other, one is just more calculated and the other more aggressive.

*6 points for three incidents.

Never claimed Hamilton is a saint, just that Verstappen is more dirty than many drivers for quite a while. As for the number of crashes, that only tells half a story. Verstappen and Albon were not innocent in their cases and Verstappen would have crashed Hamilton more had it not been for a combination of luck / Hamilton avoiding. Last race it was a brake check and a kamikaze move, Brazil it was a kamikaze move, earlier in the year he pulled these moves and even did it at Silverstone before the crash.

I've never said Verstappen wasn't skilled either, that's the worst part. He doesn't need to drive dirty but he does, constantly. I've asked this multiple times, can you point to even a single instance of Verstappen backing down when competing with a car into a corner? He just doesn't do it. There are numerous examples of Hamilton backing out. That is the difference between the 2. Hamilton can by sly and push the limits a lot but Verstappen is hyper-aggressive. He's not the same driver as when he was a rookie but he does still have the all-or-nothing attitude to pretty much every fight.

I've wanted to see Hamilton and Mercedes toppled from their perch, I don't want to see Verstappen or RB doing it. As far as I'm concerned they are toxic and a lot is getting overlooked by fans because of their desire to see Hamilton and/or Mercedes knocked off the top spot. Get Verstappen and RB to the top so they are the target and I'd imagine suddenly all this stuff people turned a blind eye to would almost overnight become an issue.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I.mean, yeah, we disagree. One's as bad as the other in my eyes. FWIW he had a couple of super clean battles with LeClerc back in 2019, definitely respect between those two. It's really only Hamilton that he's been aggressive with, and after Silverstone and Hungary.

I'd be very curious to see who the other drivers and teams want to win. Lando made a weird iracing comment that seemed to be him saying he wanted Max to get it. I think Merc and Hamilton are among the least popular on the grid. Merc also literally attempted to cheat this season, RB haven't, just a rotten team in my opinion.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/m...ssible-points-deduction-in-abu-dhabi/6866644/

Nothing unexpected, I reckon the internal messages are far more severe. Don't make a show of us again or we'll hit you where it hurts sort of thing.

 

[ncurd]

Yup nobody wants this sorted out the stewards room, the threats brining constructors in is clear shot across the bow at Mercedes who pretty much have sewn up.

Can't ask anything more of Masi really other than to better at his job during the actual race.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yup nobody wants this sorted out the stewards room, the threats brining constructors in is clear shot across the bow at Mercedes who pretty much have sewn up.

Can't ask anything more of Masi really other than to better at his job during the actual race.

And threats are only good if they are credible. A large chunk of the criticism has been the apparent arbitrariness of applying the rules.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also in other news: Chicken