[EOYT] Wales v Australia, 30/11/13

[Rich Taff]

I thought Wales were pretty average today, they made Aussie look good, much like the Irish did when Aussie played them.
Before you start talking Australia's hopes up too much I would direct you to the two games just a few months back, one in Brisbane and one in Saffer-ville where the Boks utterly destroyed Aussie.
I mean they knock 'em down, drag 'em out, throw 'em down destroyed Aussie like they were a schoolkid team.
Home and away.
I havent seen a demolition job like that done to Aussie since Adam was a boy. It was a pair of truly brutal beatings where Aussie were caught between having no chance and a slim chance, and Slim left town at the kick off.
Aussie didn't even get going today until they were forced into it by Wales scoring points and Qayde Cooper, who is a non event against the Boks and the AB's, because they play high tempo physical games, was given all the time in the world today to run the show and make Wales look amateur at times.
Wales spent quite a lot of that game failing to compete at the breakdown. Lydiate was a passenger lumbering about the park, he looked tired, Tipuric was needed from the start, and Warburton needs to step up because the Aussie loose forward trio gave Wales a really torrid time. Wales were woeful at the breakdown. Maybe that was the brand new midfield pairing but it was definitely something and it cost them a lot of momentum and possession.
Aussies ball retention was significantly better.
James Slipper impressed me today. That bloke got through a power of work carrying the ball in the loose and he really took some tackling and made the Welsh front row look slow. Kepu was better than average too but he really is average up against the quality that the Boks and AB's bring to the table. Thats an indication of how average Wales were today. For some periods of the game they looked a bit like Scotland, or Italy, a second tier nation with a kicker.
How many penalties of Wales failed to find touch?
Schoolboy errors that gifted away possession and field position. Waaaaay too many mistakes to beat a team like Australia. You keep gifting Aussie opportunities and they will show you their class.
Fardy is a real find as well at no.6, he had a huge game as he made Lydiate look like a ghost.
I know they were missing a bunch of players and will have much stronger line ups in the future but today Wales were flattered by the scoreline.

Is there a link to the game you were watching anywhere? I was busy watching the Wales V Australia game, so missed it.

 

[Ospreylian]

What a fantastic game, congratulations to Australia, they outplayed Wales in many areas today. Quade Cooper was playing like a man possessed, and Hooper had another stormer.

Thought Wales were unlucky in a few situations, but then they didn't deserve to win based on the game as a whole anyway. But in general I was proud of the team (bar Mike Phillips' stamp, which was pathetic tbh) and just gutted that another southern hemisphere opportunity has gone begging.

Wallabies should Wipe the floor with the welsh. They are scum of the earth
Aussie by 12

As for Largejanner, I remember you, unfortunately. Don't want to quote you because your words do not deserve space in a thread on this forum, but I thought you had p****d off a while back? If not, kindly do so in the very near future. Thank you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a shame Wales don't really have another 9 to turn to other than Philips.
Lloyd Williams has gone backwards since his bright start, and I'm unconvinced by Rhodri Williams (though he is, of course, about 11yrs old so has plenty of times to grow into it).
Tavis Knoyle has been playing well for Gloucester, and Peel is playing as well as I've ever seen him for Sale - possible alternatives for Gatland if he gets sick of Philips "big-i-am" attitude.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I know, it's pretty incredible. Wales have seriously seen fate dig a hole for them, and they're now stuck in a psychological warp where history keeps repeating itself. Not that the Aussies haven't played well and every match is its own story, but they've got to snap out of it and believe they're the best. Some matches in a row would be understandable and not reprehensible, but this is an absolute monument of text you've just imported in your post. And the Wallabies are most definitely within the range of Wales.

Last 4 games: 80 vs 89
XD that's just incredible.

We've got to dispense with this myth that it's all a mental block to be overcome, and just believing in yourself. It's not about 'choking' or letting the fear getting to you. It's about a quality gulf. Today absolutely confirmed for me that the south is just still far ahead of the north after all this time. If Australia had played England in their last autumn international rather than the very first, they would have flattened us.

 

[Ospreylian]

It's a shame Wales don't really have another 9 to turn to other than Philips.
Lloyd Williams has gone backwards since his bright start, and I'm unconvinced by Rhodri Williams (though he is, of course, about 11yrs old so has plenty of times to grow into it).
Tavis Knoyle has been playing well for Gloucester, and Peel is playing as well as I've ever seen him for Sale - possible alternatives for Gatland if he gets sick of Philips "big-i-am" attitude.

yeah, it's worrying times in this position. Can't see Gatland not picking Phillips until he retires now, but I still see Knoyle as being the long term replacement. He is probably the scrum half that has shown the most potential. I also really think they should give Gareth Davies a chance in the jersey. He had a great start to the season for Scarlets and I was surprised Rhodri Williams was picked ahead of him tbh. He's still young too, so plenty of room for development. He not only has a decent passing game, but he has great potential in open-play situations too:

 

[TRF_Cymro]

It's a shame Wales don't really have another 9 to turn to other than Philips.
Lloyd Williams has gone backwards since his bright start, and I'm unconvinced by Rhodri Williams (though he is, of course, about 11yrs old so has plenty of times to grow into it).
Tavis Knoyle has been playing well for Gloucester, and Peel is playing as well as I've ever seen him for Sale - possible alternatives for Gatland if he gets sick of Philips "big-i-am" attitude.

Peel has fallen out with Howley so as it stands won't be getting back into the international set up sadly.

We've got to dispense with this myth that it's all a mental block to be overcome, and just believing in yourself. It's not about 'choking' or letting the fear getting to you. It's about a quality gulf. Today absolutely confirmed for me that the south is just still far ahead of the north after all this time. If Australia had played England in their last autumn international rather than the very first, they would have flattened us.

Disagree entirely. Wales lacked composure. Kicking possession away twice in a short period of time when keep possession was key. Calling a 12 man lineout when Australia was down to 14 ... overlap already there! I'd personally gone for the kick at goal but that's another matter. It was a pure lack of composure and poor decisions towards the end that really cost Wales a possible chance of victory.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Peel has fallen out with Howley so as it stands won't be getting back into the international set up sadly.

Gatland should wait until the end of this/next season when Peel retires and hire him over Howley

 

[Rich Taff]

Peel has fallen out with Howley so as it stands won't be getting back into the international set up sadly.



Disagree entirely. Wales lacked composure. Kicking possession away twice in a short period of time when keep possession was key. Calling a 12 man lineout when Australia was down to 14 ... overlap already there! I'd personally gone for the kick at goal but that's another matter. It was a pure lack of composure and poor decisions towards the end that really cost Wales a possible chance of victory.

Once again our awful lineout throwing comes back to haunt us. The fact that McBride (who couldn't hit a cows ass with a banjo) is the forwards coach, must have something to do with it.

 

[j'nuh]

Knoyle has done pretty good at Gloucester... in the small amount of rugby he's played. He's played 3+2 games, whereas Cowan has 5+3 and Robson 5+6. Knoyle also hasn't been involved for nearly a month. It's pretty clear who ND sees as his first-choice 9s. Still, I've liked what I have seen of Knoyle.

 

[Ospreylian]

Disagree entirely. Wales lacked composure. Kicking possession away twice in a short period of time when keep possession was key. Calling a 12 man lineout when Australia was down to 14 ... overlap already there! I'd personally gone for the kick at goal but that's another matter. It was a pure lack of composure and poor decisions towards the end that really cost Wales a possible chance of victory.

The 12 man line-out was a stupid call, agreed. Especially in the context of the game - those sort of desperate tactics should be reserved for situations like the New Zealand game that involved the 13 man lineout, where Wales were really struggling to score tries. Wales could have just got it to the midfield because North looked deadly down the centre, and who knows what the result could have been then. Or, as you say, taken the points and claimed the restart to work it back upfield again.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Peel has fallen out with Howley so as it stands won't be getting back into the international set up sadly.



Disagree entirely. Wales lacked composure. Kicking possession away twice in a short period of time when keep possession was key. Calling a 12 man lineout when Australia was down to 14 ... overlap already there! I'd personally gone for the kick at goal but that's another matter. It was a pure lack of composure and poor decisions towards the end that really cost Wales a possible chance of victory.

I'm obviously not saying Wales could never have won - clearly they could have. But what I see out on the pitch year on year is a difference in class which is reflected in the pattern of the results and the fact that wales occasionally threaten to do better doesn't change anything. The fact that you could have won when playing at home should go without saying.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When you consider it was a back in the bin as well - with a player as abrasive as Liam Williams or Cuthbert out on the wing, you have to feel they could've exploited the space/a last ditch half tackle.

Could've-should've-would've, though.

Does that blame lie solely at Warburton's door, or is it a passed on message from the staff?

 

[dullonien]

Australia deserved the victory in the end, thought they played really well and probably should have scored another couple of try's.

Whilst we could have won it at the death, we were outplayed in a couple of crucial areas, especially at the breakdown. This was hugely disappointing, as it's been a strength of ours over the past couple of years. I thought it was a mistake not to play Tipuric before the match, and I still do. Lydiate was mostly anonymous, so playing Warbs and Tipuric might have given us more chance of competing at the breakdown. Warbs was also quiet today, so it might have made no difference though. Ultimately though, the entire Aussie pack were competitive in the ruck, with Hooper the stand-out. This starved us of possession for most of the first 50min and it was only a combination of excellent cover defence and a couple of missed opportunities from Aus that meant we were 'only' 14 points down.

I think the try that I was most impressed with from Aus was Folau's. Against most other sides the two huge tackles from North and Hibbard would have stopped that movement in its tracks, but today the tackled players kept calm, presented the ball, the other forwards cleaned out well and they still managed to get quick possession to stretch the Welsh defence. Quality.

As for Wales, I was disappointed with our kicking game. Haven't we learned that kicking the ball down the throats of any of the SANZAR sides is a mistake, especially Aus! Biggar's tactical kicking is usually very good, but he was guilty of some poor in-field kicking today. Added to that, we also tried to play too much from inside of our own 22, which put us under huge pressure time after time. It's not something we usually do, so I was very perplexed to see us continue with that tactic.

One Welsh player who should hold his head high though is North. Huge game from him I thought, and if anything he was even better when he moved into the centre. Being critical, he maybe should have trusted his inside defence a little more and kept his width so Cooper couldn't send those reverse passes out wide. But it is extremely difficult to defend against magic like that.

Some ratings for the Welsh players:

01 Gethin Jenkins: 6. Forced off at half time, and didn't get a chance to assert pressure in the scrum. Worked hard in defence as he always does.
02 Richard Hibbard: 7. Another all out performance. A couple of big tackles, loads of carrying. Lineout struggled though.
03 Rhodri Jones: 5. Didn't see too much of him today.
04 Alun-Wyn Jones: 7. Worked tirelessly all match, but couldn't match the performances he put in during the summer.
05 Ian Evans: 6. Again, worked hard. Lost control of the ball in the 12 man lineout at the death though, meaning we couldn't form the rolling maul we had planned.
06 Dan Lydiate: 5. Thought he looked off the pace slightly. One or two decent carries, but none of his trademark tackles, and was part of a beaten backrow at the breakdown.
07 Sam Warburton: 5. Same as Lydiate really. He made one turnover at the breakdown, but otherwise he was rarely even there competing.
08 Toby Faletau: 7. Solid game from Faletau I thought. Superb cover tackle at one stage, and was always getting involved.

09 Mike Phillips: 4. Did some things ok, but his kicking game put us under huge pressure. I don't mind him getting involved in everything, but that stamp was out of order, as was the silly play acting.
10 Dan Biggar: 5. Was picked to control the game, but didn't manage it unfortunately. Poor kicking handed possession back to Australia time after time. Tried to counter a few times, but only played us into trouble in our own half. Yellow card really hurt us too.
11 George North: 8. Worked his socks off, scoring two try's.
12 Scott Williams: 6. One lovely pass out to Liam Williams, and plenty of effort, but we desperately missed Roberts in both his ability to get us over the gain-line and in defence.
13 Owen Williams: 5. Tough game for Williams so early in his professional career. Struggled a little with the physicality of the game I thought, and didn't get any real opportunities to show his talent in attack.
14 Alex Cuthbert: 5. Barely saw him with ball in hand, and he didn't come looking for the ball like he usually does either. Some solid work in defence though.
15 Leigh Halfpenny: 7. Some very good stuff from Halfpenny, making a couple of clean breaks and solid throughout under the high ball. Missed kick to touch and a few poor tactical kicks loses him a point.

16 Ryan Bevington: 7. Looked under pressure in the scrum, but his work in the loose was good. Some strong carries and a couple of big tackles helped Wales get back into the game.
17 Samson Lee: 6. Not much to say really. Thought he was unlucky not to gain Wales possession at the scrum at the end with a powerful shunt, only for Barnes to incorrectly (imo) award a penalty to Aus for wheeling.
18 Ken Owens: 7. Lineout improved drastically with him at hooker. Offered himself as a ball carrier too.
19 Ryan Jones: N/A.
20 Justin Tipuric: 7. Added something imo. Made a nuisance of himself at the breakdown, and added a little creativity ball in hand. Should have started.
21 Rhodri Williams: 6. Passed the ball from the breakdown. Did little else tbh, but this was probably too big a game for his 2nd cap for him to try anything fancy. Capable of a lot more.
22 Rhys Priestland: 5. Why kick is at the end? Why risk it?
23 Liam Williams: 6. Overall, solid cameo. Almost burst his way through for a try, although North was looping around on the outside. As with Priestland though, why kick the ball at the end?

 

[Draggs]

Peel was sluggish in his last few caps for Wales, and I can assume lacks the physicality Gatland wants. The inform Welsh scrum half is Richie Rees, without a doubt. Regrettably, he does not play for the right club it seems/got on Howley's list.

Rhodri Jones put in a decent shift in defence.
Lydiate showed his limitations, not ideal in a fast paced game. Would have brought Tipuric on at H/T.
North is too high, very confused in defence, contributed to some of the Aussie tries.
Scott Williams was decent in defence, high tackle stats and did well enough considering the Aussies seemed to target Owen.

Halfpenny can cause damage when he makes a break, he needs to try it more often.

 

[RoosTah]

The Wallabies seriously outclassed Wales for the majority of that match, and were pretty lucky to start ahead on the scoreboard - it looked like Folau was going to score first for a second.

Very impressive display from the whole team though really. I thought we'd miss Kurindrani's abrasiveness in defence, but AAC was immense. Also, Tomane and Cooper look like they're reading eachother's minds at the moment - they created so many opportunities it was incredible.

I was a little worried Wales would steal it at the end, but the boys held pretty strong an definitely deserved to win after dominating so much of the game. Just a shame we couldn't have played with that sort of width and purpose against England.

 

[dullonien]

Also want to wade in on a few of Wayne Barnes' decisions.

- Forward pass for Tomane's try? If it was, it was very marginal imo. Folau's hands appeared to go in a lateral motion with his forward momentum accounting for most of the distance the ball travelled forwards. Personally I thought Barnes' decision that there was nothing obvious was a good call, favouring the attacking side, even if it hurt at the time.
- Cooper's yellow card. Crazy decision. It was literally a split second between an early tackle, and a perfectly timed one. Penalty, yes. Yellow card, hell no.
- Alun-Wyn's knock on towards the end. For me, the ball clearly went through his hands and backwards. Tough decision due to where we were on the pitch and how much time was left on the clock, but a decision that I can accept.
- Wheeled scrum. Imo it wasn't a deliberate wheel, just a combination of Bevington's poor scrummaging on the loosehead side, and Samson Lee getting a huge shove-on. Again though, if it happened earlier on in the match I wouldn't have minded too much, so I'm not too upset by the decision. Always difficult for ref's to determine when it's a legitimate drive or a wheel anyway.

Barnes also gave a penalty to Wales when North obviously wasn't supporting his bodyweight in a ruck out wide. So all in all, I thought Barnes had a decent game, with the yellow given to Cooper being the worst call imo. That decision didn't affect the result though, so we can let him off.

 

[j'nuh]

- Cooper's yellow card. Crazy decision. It was literally a split second between an early tackle, and a perfectly timed one. Penalty, yes. Yellow card, hell no.

I think it's one of those issues where Barnes was tied by the letter of the law. Cooper was very hard done by, but if it wasn't a legitimate tackle and he was stopping a try scoring opportunity, as Barnes thought he was, then Cooper has to go. Very unfortunate, and perhaps the rules need changing to give the referee more discretion.

 

[dullonien]

I think it's one of those issues where Barnes was tied by the letter of the law. Cooper was very hard done by, but if it wasn't a legitimate tackle and he was stopping a try scoring opportunity, as Barnes thought he was, then Cooper has to go. Very unfortunate, and perhaps the rules need changing to give the referee more discretion.

Yeah, think you're right there.

 

[David Smith]

As for Largejanner, I remember you, unfortunately. Don't want to quote you because your words do not deserve space in a thread on this forum, but I thought you had p****d off a while back? If not, kindly do so in the very near future. Thank you.

I think I wad proven with the way Mike Phillips acted today.

 

[neiliog93]

I really like Sam Warburton, he conducts himself with class in interviews (think post 2011 World Cup semi-final) . I think today, though, questions have to be asked of his leadership abilities. Others have highlighted the 12-man line-out call when a man up, which was a crazy decision. More than that though, the quality difference between Wales and Australia is very, very small, as the last eight matches show. I think the team leaders, and especially the captain, have to take a lot of the responsibility if their team consistently loses by tight margins. Those tight games are where the great leaders are separated from the good leaders, both in what they do on the pitch themselves and the effect they have via their decision making. Warburton obviously failed in the latter regard today and has done in many of the recent Australia meetings with Wales, but more worryingly he also failed in the former regard. Wales were beaten at the breakdown and Michael Hooper's presence in the game was far greater than Warburton's. He's delivered 6 Nations championships but against Southern Hemisphere opposition his captaincy has been poor. It hasn't just reflected the team's performances, it's been worse.

Lydiate was also very poor today I felt, continuing his bad start to the season with Racing Metro. Wales' only backrow positive today was Toby Faletau, who was very visible in defence and carried very effectively.

Form Welsh backrow: (?)

6.Ryan Jones
7.Tipuric
8.Faletau