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englands backs
- Thread starter jordiev
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I was just about to mention him.
I've been really impressed most times I've seen Burns, he's probably the best running fly-half we have, offers good goal-kicking, good creativity... I really want to see what he can do in an England shirt. Massive potential.
Right, the way I see it...
9 - One of Youngs or Care. With proper coaching, I still think they're England's best scrum-halfs. Bring in Simpson too. Harsh on Dickson, but I want to build England around the knowledge that the scrum-halves can really do damage if they see a gap; however, get them to work on their service first and foremost.
10 - Flood for now; watch Farrell, Clegg and Burns carefully as I think Flood is dethronable. Ford is a little bit down the line to be worrying about.
11/14 - I'd be playing one of Ojo/Monye/Benjamin/Bana... ok, not Banahan on one wing, to offer the power option coming into the line, and one of Ashton/Sharples/Wade/Short/Joseph as the gas-stepping try merchant on the other. I'd expect both sides to be able to defend. With the amount of potential we've got, poor defence can only be overlooked for consistently superlative attack
12 - Barritt is my first choice, or maybe JTH. Allen seems off the boil. Twelvetrees has all the potential but needs to force his way through and start using it. Hope Jonny May continues getting starts here.
13 - Tuilagi has the jersey. Although I'm tempted to convert him to a 7... Trinder and Lowe given chances. Good eye kept on Daly and Waldouck on Wasps.
15 - Foden has the jersey, Armitage is breathing down his neck now, Mike Brown's been excellent, Alex Goode is consistently good for Sarries, Tom Homer's look good for LI... bags of options, our strongest position.
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I'm also a big fan of Burns
I was calling for him to be the Saxons flyhalf last season - turns out Rory Clegg was very good there, but was still gutted that it wasn't Burns!
I was calling for him to be the Saxons flyhalf last season - turns out Rory Clegg was very good there, but was still gutted that it wasn't Burns!
racingmetrofan
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9 - Youngs, Simpson, Care - plenty of choice there and they will all be around for a bit
10 - Flood, Farrell, Burns, Clegg, Ford - I'd put Burns in an England shirt asap, one of my favorite players and has a pretty well rounded game.
11 - Ashton, Sharples, Short, Wade, Benjamin, Ojo
12 - Barrit without a doubt, plenty of backup with Twelvetrees and Allen around.
13 - Tulagi has pretty much secured this spot. I rate Trinder as well and Waldouck is one to watch out for when he is fit and playing again.
14 - Ashton, Sharples, Short, Wade, Benjamin, Ojo
15 - Foden and Armitage cover this position well - loads of depth with Morgan, Homer and Goode as well.
The depressing thing is that England have the players, they just haven't been played.
My 2012 6nations backs XV would be:
9: Simpson
10: Burns
11: Sharples
12: Barrit
13: Tulagi
14: Short
15: Foden
10 - Flood, Farrell, Burns, Clegg, Ford - I'd put Burns in an England shirt asap, one of my favorite players and has a pretty well rounded game.
11 - Ashton, Sharples, Short, Wade, Benjamin, Ojo
12 - Barrit without a doubt, plenty of backup with Twelvetrees and Allen around.
13 - Tulagi has pretty much secured this spot. I rate Trinder as well and Waldouck is one to watch out for when he is fit and playing again.
14 - Ashton, Sharples, Short, Wade, Benjamin, Ojo
15 - Foden and Armitage cover this position well - loads of depth with Morgan, Homer and Goode as well.
The depressing thing is that England have the players, they just haven't been played.
My 2012 6nations backs XV would be:
9: Simpson
10: Burns
11: Sharples
12: Barrit
13: Tulagi
14: Short
15: Foden
Nathaniel Langham
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Yes England do have the players to compete with the top teams and your right they simply don't select the right people. Plus they don't play with the right structures nor do they have the right balance.
Rugby in England needs to follow the lead of their cricket counterparts and copy the best practices from the leading countries.
You've nailed it right there. Cricket team is awesome-like them however the RFU needs to have patience.
Something like this:
9: youngs- still our best and he is also still a relatively young
Simpson-good but needs to work on his distribution
10:Flood is genuinely good... When his forwards are dominating I think he should lead the way for the moment but Farrell should be used if he's not performing
11&14: lots of options Ashton- tried and tested performer who scores tries
Wade- he must be introduced soon (Saxons at least) if he is to reach his full potential for the 2015 WC potialy a real danger man
Bannahan- offers something different worth keeping in and can cover 13
Sharples and armitage- both high quality players
12: Allen is my first choice here, he is creative and is probably the best person to unleash Manu
Barrit- a quality player with good Defence and decent attack
13:Manu- awesome potentially the next Nonu
Tait- quick but doesn't have the sheer presence on a pitch that Manu has
15: Loads of good players but for me fodder at the moment but armitage is very close mike brown and others are also potentially class
9: youngs- still our best and he is also still a relatively young
Simpson-good but needs to work on his distribution
10:Flood is genuinely good... When his forwards are dominating I think he should lead the way for the moment but Farrell should be used if he's not performing
11&14: lots of options Ashton- tried and tested performer who scores tries
Wade- he must be introduced soon (Saxons at least) if he is to reach his full potential for the 2015 WC potialy a real danger man
Bannahan- offers something different worth keeping in and can cover 13
Sharples and armitage- both high quality players
12: Allen is my first choice here, he is creative and is probably the best person to unleash Manu
Barrit- a quality player with good Defence and decent attack
13:Manu- awesome potentially the next Nonu
Tait- quick but doesn't have the sheer presence on a pitch that Manu has
15: Loads of good players but for me fodder at the moment but armitage is very close mike brown and others are also potentially class
Banahan looks like he will be difficult to keep out of the squad for a while (yes I did just knwingly type that without the influence of alcohol!). He seems to have caught a sidestep and some agility on the plane back from NZ. He would actually be a very useful sub ATM.
The one word of cuation I would have with the management of englands backs ATM is that whilst there do seem plenty of very obvious choices now, as a result of the RWC and the blooding of young players, within 1-2 years they could easily be the old donkeys out shone by newer models who have got plenty of game time at the thick of it.
m0rris
The one word of cuation I would have with the management of englands backs ATM is that whilst there do seem plenty of very obvious choices now, as a result of the RWC and the blooding of young players, within 1-2 years they could easily be the old donkeys out shone by newer models who have got plenty of game time at the thick of it.
m0rris
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NO.
NO HE CAN'T.
He's never put in anything other than a shocking performance in the centres for England, and he's been average at best on the wing.
He performs in the prem, and rightly got a shot in an England shirt - 16 caps is enough to know he doesn't cut it at international rugby.
I really hope Mike Brown gets a shot in an England shirt, he played very well last season and this season - just a shame (for him) that Foden and Armitage are (or were, in Foden's case) playing very well
TBH, blooding Banahan at centre for England was never going to work. He is a better player than the Banahan of last season (and the summer) ATM. However he shouldn't be a starter more a bench option. Although as a Bath fan he is so useful I'd rather he'd stay at Bath during the six nations and cause havoc across the land.
The problem with Mike Brown is he's a bit of a cock and he isn't as good as Foden or Armitage. I would have put him behind Abendanon before this season but he's not doing well.
If England were to build on Flood and Farrell who would be the third FH in the wings?
m0rris
The problem with Mike Brown is he's a bit of a cock and he isn't as good as Foden or Armitage. I would have put him behind Abendanon before this season but he's not doing well.
If England were to build on Flood and Farrell who would be the third FH in the wings?
m0rris
Good call, on FB.
Banahan works hard enough at his game which would give him a fair shot and he will certainly make it at club level, he is now getting alot more game time there for Bath as that is now our default Banahan position rather than wing. International level is a bit TBD, there is a chance it could happen now he is getting game time there, there is also a chance someone better will pop up and take the shirt.
m0rris
Banahan works hard enough at his game which would give him a fair shot and he will certainly make it at club level, he is now getting alot more game time there for Bath as that is now our default Banahan position rather than wing. International level is a bit TBD, there is a chance it could happen now he is getting game time there, there is also a chance someone better will pop up and take the shirt.
m0rris
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Rory Clegg has been playing very well as well (and had a good Saxons tour/series/whatever it's called)
Good to hear, seems more likely as a centre than a wing to me, will be interesting to see how it develops. What about that other young centre you've got, can't remember his name... too lazy to look it up...
While true, Clegg has a small problem in becoming a full international, and his name is Nick Evans.
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Very true - However he got selected to be starting 10 for the Saxons, so he's obviously getting noticed
psychic duck
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The England backs I would select
reserves in brackets
15. Foden
14. Ashton
13. Tuilagi
12. Allen/Barritt
11. Ojo/Wade/Sharples
10. Flood/Farrell
9. Youngs
12 is up for grabs really, but I think selecting either of Banahan or Turner-Hall in the centres would be big mistake,
11 too is open, I would move on from Cueto now, and select somebody available for 2015
reserves in brackets
15. Foden
14. Ashton
13. Tuilagi
12. Allen/Barritt
11. Ojo/Wade/Sharples
10. Flood/Farrell
9. Youngs
12 is up for grabs really, but I think selecting either of Banahan or Turner-Hall in the centres would be big mistake,
11 too is open, I would move on from Cueto now, and select somebody available for 2015
samhall
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Young Guns
Ok here is how i see it.
To begin with to pick Englands backs in the future you have to look at the way they play or (how you want them to play) and how Johnson or the next England coach would want us to play. In essence looking at the current crop of players and the recent 4 years of forward dominated rugby and its failure England are likely to move towards a quick mobile team. e.g the Likes of Lawes Croft Wood Marler Hartley etc.in the forwards. To that extent it gives England the ability to run some nice running rugby.
So who are the best back at controlling a running rugby game whilst having the skill to execute it?
9- Wigglesworth doesnt fit the running rugby mould. Yes a very good player at controlling the game but he isnt your out and out running, buzzing kind of scrum half. This leaves us with the classic group of 3 (sorry Dickson there are too many good 9's out there) So Simpson, Youngs or Flood? Well if we are looking towards the 6 nations to create a team then Care will have come back from injury but to thrown him back into the fire of international rugby would be a misjudgement in my mind. Youngs had has chance at the world cup and just isnt where he was a year ago. Sides have worked out how to stop his two step pass technique by throwing up a guard to cancel a pass. Therefore, i think Simpson deserves a chance. Why? well he's rapid, tests defences and his distribution is great. He is quicker than Youngs and isnt afraid of the tap and go. With a mobile set of forwards i think he can really get us going. so my 9 would be Joe Simpson.
10- Now the Wilkinson days are over i wont discuss this anymore. So Flood/Farrell/ Clegg. Well in my eyes it has to be Flood.Farell for various reasons mainly becuase i want him at I.C and sorry Rory Clegg fans but he needs to play week in week out for Quins before he can make my England team. Flood has enviously good talent. He throws some great passing and kicking is improving. With the likes of Moody, Tindall and Easter stepping down in the next few years we need a fly half who can take the bull by the horns. We cant keep cutting and changing so its best to have him set now and say right for the next 4 years Toby is a senior player an fly half. HE HAS THE TALENT.
11- Sharples/Monye/Armitage Right Armtiage rightly deserves a shout. Genuinely classy at times and played some lovely rugby in RWC. Also offers a great high ball option in attack and defence. Yes desreves a place in England side but dont think wing is his position long term. Monye (the forgotten man) all be it injured at the moment played well early season in a strong quins side. Maybe a bench place for him but genuine talent and strength. He will also offer the experience of a Lion in future years. BUT Sharples deserves a place. so quick and if England are going to play soem running rugby then hes a finisher and a game breaker. Give him the ball and he WILL do something. Also very young and can help bedd into this team for the next 4 years. Special mention to Christian Wade who is a star of the future and will break into this side soon but not in my team goign forward.
12) Farrell/Allen/Barritt Here is my dilemma. They are all good players. They all offer physicallity. But who do you want to run a team? If flood has a poor day who stands up and plays well. My answer is Owen Farrell. He is physcial and played very well in Prem at 12 this year. His kicking is at times sublimes and can offer the Tindall esque boot at 12 when needed. He has played 12 at U20's level behing George Ford (future star) and is well placed to be the 12 that can control and distribute. Allen is a good player but he just doesnt distribute well enough and going forward all eyes on Farrell for me. And sorry Brad Barritt but i just dont like you. Hes physcial but that is it. Plus hes really South African and bar Manu i dont like foreigners in the team. So 12- Owen Farrell.
13) Manu Tuilagi- no arguments.
14) Chris Ashton- The joint leading try scorer in RWC. His place is nailed down. Defence soemtimes weak, attack sublime, swallow dive mad. Again will be one of the senior players alongside Flood and Foden. He will be sublime in years to come if not now. Agan sorry to Christain Wade but Ashton will be world class. He fits the running game i want Engalnd to play and is a brilliant finisher.
15) Ben Foden- again no questions asked. Delon Armitage sorry mate but Foden is class. Doesnt score many tries in an England shirt but is a clever customer. Reads the game well as an ex9 he is lightning quick and can clean up any problem. A senior player in the future i get the feeling he is well respected in England camp.
subs- may be a few candidates here. Fly half probably Clegg maybe even George Ford. Armitage as a utility player and maybe someone like Flutey as the old war horse pragmatist.
Ultimately England should want to and certainly have the talent to produce a fantastic mobile running rugby side to compete with the best. In my eyes this begins at the 6 nations this year with a team of
9) Joe Simpson
10) Toby Flood
11) Charlie Sharples
12) Owen Farrell
13) Manu Tuilagi
14) Chris Ashton
15) Ben Foden
Ok here is how i see it.
To begin with to pick Englands backs in the future you have to look at the way they play or (how you want them to play) and how Johnson or the next England coach would want us to play. In essence looking at the current crop of players and the recent 4 years of forward dominated rugby and its failure England are likely to move towards a quick mobile team. e.g the Likes of Lawes Croft Wood Marler Hartley etc.in the forwards. To that extent it gives England the ability to run some nice running rugby.
So who are the best back at controlling a running rugby game whilst having the skill to execute it?
9- Wigglesworth doesnt fit the running rugby mould. Yes a very good player at controlling the game but he isnt your out and out running, buzzing kind of scrum half. This leaves us with the classic group of 3 (sorry Dickson there are too many good 9's out there) So Simpson, Youngs or Flood? Well if we are looking towards the 6 nations to create a team then Care will have come back from injury but to thrown him back into the fire of international rugby would be a misjudgement in my mind. Youngs had has chance at the world cup and just isnt where he was a year ago. Sides have worked out how to stop his two step pass technique by throwing up a guard to cancel a pass. Therefore, i think Simpson deserves a chance. Why? well he's rapid, tests defences and his distribution is great. He is quicker than Youngs and isnt afraid of the tap and go. With a mobile set of forwards i think he can really get us going. so my 9 would be Joe Simpson.
10- Now the Wilkinson days are over i wont discuss this anymore. So Flood/Farrell/ Clegg. Well in my eyes it has to be Flood.Farell for various reasons mainly becuase i want him at I.C and sorry Rory Clegg fans but he needs to play week in week out for Quins before he can make my England team. Flood has enviously good talent. He throws some great passing and kicking is improving. With the likes of Moody, Tindall and Easter stepping down in the next few years we need a fly half who can take the bull by the horns. We cant keep cutting and changing so its best to have him set now and say right for the next 4 years Toby is a senior player an fly half. HE HAS THE TALENT.
11- Sharples/Monye/Armitage Right Armtiage rightly deserves a shout. Genuinely classy at times and played some lovely rugby in RWC. Also offers a great high ball option in attack and defence. Yes desreves a place in England side but dont think wing is his position long term. Monye (the forgotten man) all be it injured at the moment played well early season in a strong quins side. Maybe a bench place for him but genuine talent and strength. He will also offer the experience of a Lion in future years. BUT Sharples deserves a place. so quick and if England are going to play soem running rugby then hes a finisher and a game breaker. Give him the ball and he WILL do something. Also very young and can help bedd into this team for the next 4 years. Special mention to Christian Wade who is a star of the future and will break into this side soon but not in my team goign forward.
12) Farrell/Allen/Barritt Here is my dilemma. They are all good players. They all offer physicallity. But who do you want to run a team? If flood has a poor day who stands up and plays well. My answer is Owen Farrell. He is physcial and played very well in Prem at 12 this year. His kicking is at times sublimes and can offer the Tindall esque boot at 12 when needed. He has played 12 at U20's level behing George Ford (future star) and is well placed to be the 12 that can control and distribute. Allen is a good player but he just doesnt distribute well enough and going forward all eyes on Farrell for me. And sorry Brad Barritt but i just dont like you. Hes physcial but that is it. Plus hes really South African and bar Manu i dont like foreigners in the team. So 12- Owen Farrell.
13) Manu Tuilagi- no arguments.
14) Chris Ashton- The joint leading try scorer in RWC. His place is nailed down. Defence soemtimes weak, attack sublime, swallow dive mad. Again will be one of the senior players alongside Flood and Foden. He will be sublime in years to come if not now. Agan sorry to Christain Wade but Ashton will be world class. He fits the running game i want Engalnd to play and is a brilliant finisher.
15) Ben Foden- again no questions asked. Delon Armitage sorry mate but Foden is class. Doesnt score many tries in an England shirt but is a clever customer. Reads the game well as an ex9 he is lightning quick and can clean up any problem. A senior player in the future i get the feeling he is well respected in England camp.
subs- may be a few candidates here. Fly half probably Clegg maybe even George Ford. Armitage as a utility player and maybe someone like Flutey as the old war horse pragmatist.
Ultimately England should want to and certainly have the talent to produce a fantastic mobile running rugby side to compete with the best. In my eyes this begins at the 6 nations this year with a team of
9) Joe Simpson
10) Toby Flood
11) Charlie Sharples
12) Owen Farrell
13) Manu Tuilagi
14) Chris Ashton
15) Ben Foden
Banahan is one to have an eye on, definitely not a fiver, but right now just watch and wait and ee how he develops.
Ben Williams perchance? He's got a lot of potential but injuries are really getting in his way ATM. A good spell of game time and he'll come good I am sure of it. That said the competition at centre is going to be fairly fierce.
Perryo, OB1 should be up and running soon but it is going to be a while before we can see how good he is post break. He's is also quite old, pushing 30, not that that would put off the england management!
m0rris
