England vs Italy - 10/03/2013

[j'nuh]

Didn't notice but - why the hell is Tomkins in the squad when we still have no wingers?

I agree with Crapspray though, B. Vunipola should be given a go so the team gets used to a ball carrying 8. I think Ben Morgan is needed for the Wales game. Our backrow has a much better balance with him on the field, and Billy is the most natural replacement for Morgan.

Although no one should ever talk about Twelvetrees as a replacement 10, especially at international level. He can have nightmares there. Burns on the bench. His vision in his first game back last week was superb, but his goal kicking let him down. (Rustiness) It might not matter if we've already pulled away by the time Burns takes the field. Otherwise, Twelvetrees is a goal kicker too.

 

[psychic duck]

Arrogant ******* though I may be, I donn't see this being close. Italy sometimes go to pieces away from home, especially if the first few tries come early-on. I just think back to the 2011 match when a fairly average/fairly good England side had no trouble taking them apart.

I predict Mako will be given the start, much deserved in my opinion (just because you're a good impact player, doesn't mean you can't be more than that). Youngs back at Hooker, Billy Vunipola( or croft) onto the bench, and Care and Flood to be given the green light at half-back.

This. All Italy can achieve here is damage limitation.

Away from home their record is dismal. No win for 6 years, and they haven't come within 13 points of winning for 5 years away from home.

They have hardly even challenged Scotland much away since 2007, with the Scots winning comfortably each time. And England with Harry Ellis and Andy Goode at half backs still beat them easily by 25 points in 2009. And as you say, they can ship quite a few if they concede early on, such as Ireland away last year and England the year before that.

The Italian clubs records also match their poor away form. Treviso give nearly every team in Europe a test in Italy, but away from home all of Leicester, Ospreys and Toulouse got a routine try bonus win. They have also only won one match away from Italy all season, making their draw at Ulster even more surprising.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ it's strange, isn't it ?...I mean of course hca is super important, especially in rugby, especially the int'l game...but wtf Italy ?! How could the very same team play like they did to open the tournament and then the very next week get BLOWN THE FK OUT in Scotland ?!....and then suck again (but that was at home though ! ) the next match.

How could a team be sooooooo very different on the road ?!...

 

[Ospreylian]

I agree with Crapspray though, B. Vunipola should be given a go so the team gets used to a ball carrying 8. I think Ben Morgan is needed for the Wales game. Our backrow has a much better balance with him on the field, and Billy is the most natural replacement for Morgan.

Wouldn't Waldrom be the better option at this stage? Go for the tried and tested at this stage perhaps? He is practically the same style player as Morgan, so England could base their game plan around similar tactics. A team on course for a grand slam shouldn't take anything for granted, so it is sometimes risky to use these kind of matches to blood new players. But I suppose Waldrom could come off the bench.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You could argue that Billy would be a safer option, seeing as though he's the form 8 in the premiership this season.
And it's a small thing, but mentally, playing against his Wasps team-mate Masi might help to break the whole international mystique for him.
As well as the fact his brother is playing, having said that, most guys coming straight from Eng age groups are ok confidence wise.

Also, it looks like Burns will be on the bench, assuming he can pass a fitness test...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21664595

 

[martinspoonboy1]

^ it's strange, isn't it ?...I mean of course hca is super important, especially in rugby, especially the int'l game...but wtf Italy ?! How could the very same team play like they did to open the tournament and then the very next week get BLOWN THE FK OUT in Scotland ?!....and then suck again (but that was at home though ! ) the next match.

How could a team be sooooooo very different on the road ?!...

I guess it shows they lack confidence away and that wales are a better side than france atm

 

[Crapspray]

Twelvetrees and Goode would only be there for the Armageddon scenario where Flood gets injured. By no means is it, in any way, desirable. The only reason for this is so we can see how the back three perform with two wingers, which we can only do if the bench doesn't include a fly-half and a centre. I don't think one game against Italy is worth bringing Burns in, as well; I really can't see Lancaster replacing Flood on the bench for Wales. I think he'll get his chance during the Argentina tour. Hopefully with a more attacking back-line, so we can really see what he can do.

 

[Peat]

Know what? I just want to see Burns in an England shirt. That kid looks like being the realest of real deals.

 

[Teh Mite]

Also, it looks like Burns will be on the bench, assuming he can pass a fitness test...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21664595

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I could see Burns replacing Flood - I get the impression Lancaster doesn't rate Flood.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Crapspray]

He does seem to begrudge playing him, I just think he'd rather play it safe for a potentially Grand-Slam winning match. I wouldn't mind Burns replacing him at all.

 

[Teh Mite]

As a safe-ish bet, it may well be a good game to give Burns a start (assuming he's fit). If he's struggling, there's at least enough quality elsewhere to compensate and then get Flood into the pivot after halftime.

Burns IMO is the future 1st choice 10, he needs game time to build the options too. He's the closes England have to Nick Evans quality.

 

[Peat]

I could see Burns replacing Flood - I get the impression Lancaster doesn't rate Flood.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

Might be - but remember Flood's got injured a lot. I've seen one journo at least intimate this was the real problem. I see Burns replacing Flood fairly soon, but reckon not this 6N.

Farrell, Flood and Burns might be short a proven top class test fly-half, but there's plenty of depth and hard choices there.

 

[j'nuh]

The only reason that I think that Flood will start and not Burns, is that although Burns has been normally fantastic with kicking in-game and from tee this season, he struggled with both on his return from injury. It seemed as if he was rushed back into kicking for England's sake tbh, and may not have had much practice that week. He attacked as if it was second nature to him though. If on the bench, I think he'll come on if and when England are comfortable.

(Although if he isn't kicking well, there's an option to start him and give Twelvetrees the kicking duties.)

Wouldn't Waldrom be the better option at this stage? Go for the tried and tested at this stage perhaps? He is practically the same style player as Morgan, so England could base their game plan around similar tactics. A team on course for a grand slam shouldn't take anything for granted, so it is sometimes risky to use these kind of matches to blood new players. But I suppose Waldrom could come off the bench.

I would be okay with either to be honest. Both are natural replacements for Morgan. Went with Vunipola because he's the future (as a second-choice to Morgan ). On the other hand, it would be his first game back from an injury I believe?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I would be okay with either to be honest. Both are natural replacements for Morgan. Went with Vunipola because he's the future (as a second-choice to Morgan

). On the other hand, it would be his first game back from an injury I believe?

A minor injury though, assuming his power translates to the international game, he will be very successful...

I get the impression Lancaster doesn't rate Flood.

He's not really got any reason to...

 

[Saint Matt]

Robshaw and Wood are the key reasons for this years turn around IMO. We are a real pain at the breakdown, and we are a tough opposition to grind down. They should be 6 and 7 for me, and although I like Croft as a player, he is certainly behind those two in the pecking order for me. The only way he should be in the side is if Robshaw or Wood hit a speed bump, or, if Lancaster is bald enough, ahead of Parling in the second row but I wouldn't be too pleased if that happened.

Having said that, Wood at 8 could work with Croft and Robshaw on the flank, but Morgan's ball carrying is a huge part of our game. If we are going to continually select Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Launchbury, Care/B.Youngs, Tuilagi and Twelvetrees, coupled with Foden and Wade for instance, we have enough genuine game breakers. It's when we play with the likes of Marler, Brown (on the wing) an out of form Ashton and Goode at 15 - then we don't have enough running threats and Morgan is worth his weight in gold.

In terms of the game itself, Italy aren't great on their travels, and if England turn up with a professional attitude, I expect us to win, and win comfortably. Obviously you can't underestimate them, but I would be shocked if England didn't go away with a win.

 

[ratsapprentice]

if Lancaster is bald enough

None more bald.

 

[Ospreylian]

j'nuh, who is my housemate, just showed me the highlights of the recent Bath v Gloucester game, and some of the stuff Burns did in that game was pure class really. He has such great vision, far better than Farrell or Flood in that sense, and creates opportunities out of nothing - something all the greatest players in the world can do (Shane Williams, Jason Robinson, Brian O'Driscoll, etc.).

I've been so angry with the England set-up for not starting Burns over the past season or so. He is the England player I see with the most potential. The next after him with that much potential is probably Morgan, and even Morgan seems to have his doubters in the England coaching set-up occasionally. I've said it time and time again, but I see so much of a Dan Carter-esque style of play in Burns. Yes, there may be certain things he needs to work on, but the only way he will work on those is if he gets given the opportunity to start for his country. Put some faith in a player who has been setting the pitch on fire all season. Just because he is young and inexperienced at international level doesn't mean he will screw up the moment he gets the ball.

And while you're at it Lancaster, why can't you put Twelvetrees back in there?? Burns at first receiver, Twelvetrees at second. That's a combo that has been playing some great rugby, week-in, week-out fr Gloucester. Get rid of Ashton, put May in there. Get rid of Brown, put Sharples or JSD in there. Get rid of Goode, put anyone in there!

Hmmm... I'm noticing a Gloucester trend here.... no surprise really, when you consider they are one of the closest teams to Wales

 

[ratsapprentice]

To be fair, Burns did come on for 20 mins against the AB's and is in the EPS. He injured himself before the first match of the six nations, it seems fairly likely that he is going to be in the 23 against Italy.
I think Lancaster has been very reasonable so far in bringing him in, as he has been with other players. You may not always agree with who he brings in, but he does it efficiently.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Parisse won the appeal, so will be available to play against England.
He's been training with the Italian squad, in case the appeal succeeded.