England Training Squad

TRF_Olyy · May 21, 2015

Trust is earnt.

MrTea_32 · May 22, 2015

I would have preferred to see wade instead of Strettle.
I don't get how Sl picks a big squad of 50 and then leaves Ewers out. He's performed all season and deserves a spot, why couldn't sl just add burgess as an extra for his fast track learning he's already talking about adding ewers and wade after the barbarians game so why not reward ewers with a place from the start and see how he goes in the training camp. Id take ewers and itoje over wood

chippieolamus · May 23, 2015

Raggs said:
If I'm correct, Strettle has managed to continually score all of 7 tries in the AP... Ashton has a high rate at 13, but 5 of those were against Welsh. Ashton has been recalled repeatedly on the back of good premiership form, and then has been repeatedly dropped for poor defence (both positionally and tackling), poor hands, and a near complete inability to beat a defender (doubly so at international). I just don't know what they expect to see from these two. Is Strettle doing anything better than he was when he went to Arg? Is Ashton doing better than he was in the Autumn of 13 when he was on fire?

Other England wingers' records:
Jonny May: 8 tries
Anthony Watson: 4 tries (admittedly mostly at 15)
Jack Nowell: 6 tries (also not all at wing)
Yarde: 8 tries
Roko: 10 tries

So Strettle is pretty much average in terms of try scoring, plus he isn't really Sarries 'main' try scoring option whereas a lot of the others are. I'd also say that his defence is better than May, Watson and Yarde and roughly equal to Nowell, and his kick chase is better than all bar May.

Peat · May 23, 2015

chippieolamus said:
Other England wingers' records:
Jonny May: 8 tries
Anthony Watson: 4 tries (admittedly mostly at 15)
Jack Nowell: 6 tries (also not all at wing)
Yarde: 8 tries
Roko: 10 tries

So Strettle is pretty much average in terms of try scoring, plus he isn't really Sarries 'main' try scoring option whereas a lot of the others are. I'd also say that his defence is better than May, Watson and Yarde and roughly equal to Nowell, and his kick chase is better than all bar May.

Watson's only played 12 games for Bath. So, 4 in 12, completely comparable with May's 8 in 23, Yarde's 9 in 25 or Nowell's 6 in 16. Strettle's 7 in 26 falls slightly but notably below the average. Also, Watson and Rokoduguni can't both be Bath's 'main' try scoring option, May's been outscored by Sharples, Monye and Walker both have 1 in 3 try scoring rates (but have featured sporadically) and only Nowell is definitely his team's main tryscoring back 3 option... but then, Slade and Waldrom have both outscored him.

chippieolamus · May 23, 2015

Peat said:
Watson's only played 12 games for Bath. So, 4 in 12, completely comparable with May's 8 in 23, Yarde's 9 in 25 or Nowell's 6 in 16. Strettle's 7 in 26 falls slightly but notably below the average. Also, Watson and Rokoduguni can't both be Bath's 'main' try scoring option, May's been outscored by Sharples, Monye and Walker both have 1 in 3 try scoring rates (but have featured sporadically) and only Nowell is definitely his team's main tryscoring back 3 option... but then, Slade and Waldrom have both outscored him.

Fair points, but that's still not a huge drop off between Strettle and the others (and he also scored one today, so 8 in 27). I still see the other facets of Strets' game (defence, kick chase etc) as better than most of the other competitors which makes him worthy of a place. However, I would still take Nowell, Watson and Roko over him. What I'm saying is that he deserves his place in the 50 man squad, even if he perhaps doesn't deserve to start.

Peat · May 23, 2015

chippieolamus said:
Fair points, but that's still not a huge drop off between Strettle and the others (and he also scored one today, so 8 in 27). I still see the other facets of Strets' game (defence, kick chase etc) as better than most of the other competitors which makes him worthy of a place. However, I would still take Nowell, Watson and Roko over him. What I'm saying is that he deserves his place in the 50 man squad, even if he perhaps doesn't deserve to start.

Not sure I'd agree with that but there we go - I don't think he's going to the WC so happy to disagree, just wanted to present the hard stats on the tryscoring. Not that they're hard enough for my liking but alas, the club sites only offer so much.

I do think Rokoduguni has been very hard done by though as a side issue. Monstrous try scoring record and probably our only wing who's an out and out physical option at test level. I can only speculate that he does something Lancaster really doesn't like.

j'nuh · May 23, 2015

Peat said:
Watson's only played 12 games for Bath. So, 4 in 12, completely comparable with May's 8 in 23, Yarde's 9 in 25 or Nowell's 6 in 16. Strettle's 7 in 26 falls slightly but notably below the average. Also, Watson and Rokoduguni can't both be Bath's 'main' try scoring option, May's been outscored by Sharples, Monye and Walker both have 1 in 3 try scoring rates (but have featured sporadically) and only Nowell is definitely his team's main tryscoring back 3 option... but then, Slade and Waldrom have both outscored him.

There are other factors to consider. e.g.:
Strettle falls below the average probably because Ashton eats up a lot of chances that he may have otherwise finished, and he is squeezed on his try scoring total by a team that likes to score through their forwards.
May and Yarde's totals are perhaps underreported because they play for teams that don't score as many tries as the others.
Sharples may have more touch downs than May, but I am not convinced at all that that makes him a better try scorer in general. If you break down their tries, Sharples has a tendency to score against weaker opposition. Of his 10 tries, 3 came in a hat-trick against a weakened Brive, 2 came from separate games against L. Welsh, one against Zebre. May's tries come in more difficult, closer games.

In general I don't trust try scoring stats. There just isn't a controlled way of saying who is a more prolific scorer. (See how Waldrom has scored more tries in the Premiership in one season for the Chiefs than in four for the Tigers. He hasn't become an outstanding try scorer after one season under a new team; he always had it in him, he just needed to be played in a different manner to the way he was played at Tigers.)

TRF_Olyy · May 26, 2015

Hartley cited for headbutting in the Saracens game.

Step up Jamie George! (Or, more likely, Webber

)

chippieolamus · May 26, 2015

TRF_Olyy said:
Hartley cited for headbutting in the Saracens game.

Step up Jamie George! (Or, more likely, Webber )

He's already in the squad.

Peat · May 26, 2015

It's probably the wrong reaction to be really, really happy about this, right?

Olyy, I'm surprised you're not pushing Tommy Taylor.

ratsapprentice · May 26, 2015

It's just unbelieveable that he still does such uneccesary things.

If LCD can keep throwing well...

Every Time Ref · May 26, 2015

TRF_Olyy said:
Hartley cited for headbutting in the Saracens game.

Step up Jamie George! (Or, more likely, Webber )

When? I totally missed the incident it seems

Peat said:
It's probably the wrong reaction to be really, really happy about this, right?

Nope! Not good enough on form for England, and a total thug who deserves all the punishment he gets, there are neither self-interested nor empathetic reasons to be upset at him getting a long ban as far as I'm concerned.

ratsapprentice · May 26, 2015

It wasn't so much a headbutt, but he very obviously (unarguably) braced, leant forward and walked into George... for someone with no prior record it would practically be a non-event, for Hartley....

[video]http://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CF8N0yXWMAAQ6Me.mp4[/video]

TRF_Olyy · May 26, 2015

Peat said:
Olyy, I'm surprised you're not pushing Tommy Taylor.

He's better than LCD, and his work at the breakdown would come in VERY handy in this England side, however I think George should be our starting hooker (with Youngs bringing impact from the bench).

ratsapprentice · May 26, 2015

TRF_Olyy said:
He's better than LCD

TRF_Olyy · May 26, 2015

I think he is, if you watch him - LCD is a very good player, but very injury prone and overhyped due to being part of a successful u20s side and being in possession of the worst rugby lid this side of Andy Goode.
Jack Yeandle is better than him, at Chiefs, too.

Every Time Ref · May 26, 2015

ratsapprentice said:
It wasn't so much a headbutt, but he very obviously (unarguably) braced, leant forward and walked into George... for someone with no prior record it would practically be a non-event, for Hartley....

[video]http://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CF8N0yXWMAAQ6Me.mp4[/video]

Yeah that's actually nothing, it's cheek to cheek at worst.

Still. Ban the f**ker. Ban him so hard he can't walk for a week.

ratsapprentice · May 26, 2015

I agree, it's nothing, but Dylan's had countless "second chances" to not be a *** and he still does things that could cost England a game.

Peat · May 26, 2015

Apparently it looks worse at other angles, if you go to 1 hour 15 on the full replay at the Prem site

Every Time Ref · May 26, 2015

Peat said:
Apparently it looks worse at other angles, if you go to 1 hour 15 on the full replay at the Prem site

Can't say anything to change my mind, to be honest. As far as I can see there's no contact between heads more than a tiny glancing blow, possibly.

England Training Squad

English Arrogance

Academy Player

Bench Player

International

Bench Player

International

First XV

English Arrogance

Bench Player

International

Hall of Fame

First XV

Hall of Fame

English Arrogance

Hall of Fame

English Arrogance

First XV

Hall of Fame

International

First XV

Similar threads