England Squad for the Autumn

[gingergenius]

discuss.

Mine, 2 for each position:

Props:

* Andrew Sheridan
* Tim Payne
* David Wilson
* Phil Vickery

Hookers:

* Dylan Hartley
* Lee Mears

Second Rows:

* Simon Shaw
* Courtney Lawes
* Steve Borthwick
* Nick Kennedy

Back Rows:

* Tom Croft
* Chris Robshaw
* Will Skinner
* Steffon Armitage
* Jordan Crane
* Joe Worsley

Scrum Halves:

* Danny Care
* Harry Ellis

Fly Halves:

* Jonny Wilkinson
* Shane Geraghty

Centres:

* Anthony Allen
* Dominic Waldouck
* Dan Hipkiss
* Matthew Tait

Wings:

* Ugo Monye
* Mark Cueto
* David Strettle
* Matt Banahan
* Paul Sackey/ Noah Cato

Fullbacks:

* Ben Foden

---------

I'd like to point out that Tom Rees, Toby Flood, Riki Flutey, Jordan Turner-Hall and Delon Armitage are all unavailable but would have made my squad.

I've picked just one fullback because we only have one player of proven international competence in both defence and attack - Armitage - and he is injured. Abendanon is a huge liability, Morgan and Brown are great GP players but not up to international level. Foden is also very flaky option, which is why I've picked 5 wingers (a position we are very strong in), of whom Cueto and Monye have both shown comptence playing at fullback.

Johnson will undoubtedly pick Moody and Tindall.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

Props:

* Andrew Sheridan
* David Flatman
* David Wilson
* Phil Vickery

Hookers:

* Dylan Hartley
* Lee Mears

Second Rows:

* Simon Shaw
* Courtney Lawes
* Steve Borthwick
* Nick Kennedy

Back Rows:

* Tom Croft
* Chris Robshaw
* Steffon Armitage
* Nick Easter
* Joe Worsley

Scrum Halves:

* Danny Care
* Paul Hodgson

Fly Halves:

* Jonny Wilkinson
* Shane Geraghty

Centres:

* Jon Clarke
* Mike Tindall
* Dan Hipkiss
* Matthew Tait

Wings:

* Ugo Monye
* Mark Cueto
* David Strettle
* Matt Banahan
* Paul Sackey

Fullbacks:

* Ben Foden

22 vs. Australia and NZ

1. Sheridan
2. Hartley
3. Vickery
4. Shaw
5. Borthwick
6. Croft
7. Armitage
8. Easter

9. Hodgson
10. Wilkinson
11. Banahan
12. Hipkiss
13. Tait
14. Cueto
15. Monye

16. Wilson
17. Mears
18. Kennedy
19. Worsley
20. Care
21. Geraghty
22. Clarke

@gingergenius - how can you leave out Hodgson? He has been awesome

Lawes shouldn't play any game except Argentina - it's a big enough ask of him to go straight into the England squad without any Saxons experience, pitting him against Australia and New Zealand could prove disasterous, and we don't want another Cipriani situation.

22 against Argentina (weakened squad - after all the AIs are partially to help blood new players):

1. Flatman
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Lawes
5. Borthwick
6. Robshaw
7. Armitage
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Geraghty
11. Banahan
12. Hipkiss
13. Clarke
14. Strettle
15. Foden

16. Vickery
17. Mears
18. Shaw
19. Worsley
20. Hodgson
21. Wilkinson
22. Cueto

 

[Melhor Time]

Tom May should play 12. He is not my favorite but played there in June for England and is doing okay at Toulon, mind you mainly on the wing. Geraghty is a player I think is outstanding but he has been an idiot in his limited times playing for England. I will be surprized to see his name on an England teamlist as Johnno seems to have no patience for him. But his form is good so he should make the bench.

Wilkinson for 10 is a certainty.

Hodgson is the man of the moment at scrumhalf for London Irish.

Monye to play 15 and Strettle wing looks good to me.

Matt Tait is the best 13 but will he be picked?

That aside, much the same.

14 Strettle, 15 Monye, 11 Cueto
13 Tait, 12 May
10 Wilkinson, 9 Hodgson

7 Worsely, 8 Easter, 6 Haskell
5 Croft 4 Borthwick
3 Vickery 2 Mears 1 Sheridan

 

[gingergenius]

Not sure I can handle Paul Hodgson at 9 to be honest. He may be having a blue patch of form but he's played for England before, with little effect. Ellis may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he is a reliable alternative. In terms of young, flairy scrum halves Joe Simpson loses out to Care and in the dependable category I'd have Ellis over Hodgson.

Also, not sure we should be selecting a weakened side against Argentina. We lost a game to them in the Summer (with a weakened side), they beat us at HQ a few years ago and they are a very good side.

The way the fixtures work, we've got Australia first which is great since we should beat them. If we do, then kicking players out of the side will lose us momentum. If we lose then there's no way anyone is taking the next match, Argentina, lightly.

 

[Melhor Time]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not sure I can handle Paul Hodgson at 9 to be honest. He may be having a blue patch of form but he's played for England before, with little effect. Ellis may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he is a reliable alternative. In terms of young, flairy scrum halves Joe Simpson loses out to Care and in the dependable category I'd have Ellis over Hodgson.

Also, not sure we should be selecting a weakened side against Argentina. We lost a game to them in the Summer (with a weakened side), they beat us at HQ a few years ago and they are a very good side.

The way the fixtures work, we've got Australia first which is great since we should beat them. If we do, then kicking players out of the side will lose us momentum. If we lose then there's no way anyone is taking the next match, Argentina, lightly.[/b]

I think Danny Care is the best 9 but has not been playing enough nor is Ellis. All are great players.

In terms of the Argentina match, I agree with you. It is likely to be more difficult than the Australian test for a few reasons:

1 It is Argentina's first test, but not Englands.

2 Australia will be playing England after having played New Zealand in Tokyo, Japan 7 days earlier. Australia also play Gloucester in a mid week matgch before playing England.

3 England have an edge of Australia in the pack, but they dont against Argentina. England vs Argentina in the forwards is pretty even.

4 The form of some of Argentina's players is worrying if you are English. Hernandez, Tiesi, Fernandez Lobbe, Albacete, Ledesma, Roncero, Ayerza, Amorisino, Camacho, Bosch and Agulla are all playing well in leading pro tournaments. Plenty of others are getting lots of game time too. Australian players, on the other hand have not had any kind of comparative rugby since the Tri Nations.

5 Argentina's players almost all speak perfect English and French and of course Spanish. It is something often not acknowledged, but is crucial, it is an edge for them. French fans were vocal about this folloowign the World Cup pool match when Argentina won.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Oct 11 2009, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure I can handle Paul Hodgson at 9 to be honest. He may be having a blue patch of form but he's played for England before, with little effect. Ellis may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he is a reliable alternative. In terms of young, flairy scrum halves Joe Simpson loses out to Care and in the dependable category I'd have Ellis over Hodgson.

Also, not sure we should be selecting a weakened side against Argentina. We lost a game to them in the Summer (with a weakened side), they beat us at HQ a few years ago and they are a very good side.

The way the fixtures work, we've got Australia first which is great since we should beat them. If we do, then kicking players out of the side will lose us momentum. If we lose then there's no way anyone is taking the next match, Argentina, lightly.[/b]

I think Danny Care is the best 9 but has not been playing enough nor is Ellis. All are great players.

In terms of the Argentina match, I agree with you. It is likely to be more difficult than the Australian test for a few reasons:

1 It is Argentina's first test, but not Englands.

2 Australia will be playing England after having played New Zealand in Tokyo, Japan 7 days earlier. Australia also play Gloucester in a mid week matgch before playing England.

3 England have an edge of Australia in the pack, but they dont against Argentina. England vs Argentina in the forwards is pretty even.

4 The form of some of Argentina's players is worrying if you are English. Hernandez, Tiesi, Fernandez Lobbe, Albacete, Ledesma, Roncero, Ayerza, Amorisino, Camacho, Bosch and Agulla are all playing well in leading pro tournaments. Plenty of others are getting lots of game time too. Australian players, on the other hand have not had any kind of comparative rugby since the Tri Nations.

5 Argentina's players almost all speak perfect English and French and of course Spanish. It is something often not acknowledged, but is crucial, it is an edge for them. French fans were vocal about this folloowign the World Cup pool match when Argentina won.
[/b][/quote]

I don't know, i thought we did well against them over the summer with a pretty weakened team and some new players in the fold. The team i selected is still a strong side and the fact that England will have already played a game will help them if anything. In my opinion, blooding new players and getting new combinations settled is the main point of the AIs, so introducing players like Flatman, Hartley and Wilson in the front row seems a good idea (especially since Flatman and Wilson know eachother from Bath). Lawes should be implemented very, very gently and so maybe i would revise my selection and start with Shaw and Lawes off the bench for the last 15. Robshaw and Easter know eachother from club level too and Robshaw definately deserves a chance to play for England and these are the only 3 games i can see that happening this year. Care and Geraghty both need to prove themselves over a huge number of other contenders (Ellis, Hodgson especially for Care; Wilkinson, Flood and Cipriani for Geraghty. Banahan has already played against Argentina and performed admirably (2 games, 2 tries) and Clarke deserves an opportunity.

 

[gingergenius]

EDIT necessary :angry:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

discuss.

Mine, 2 for each position:

Props:

* <strike>Andrew Sheridan</strike> Dave Flatman
* Tim Payne
* David Wilson
* Phil Vickery

Hookers:

* Dylan Hartley
* Lee Mears

Second Rows:

* Simon Shaw
* Courtney Lawes
* Steve Borthwick
* Nick Kennedy

Back Rows:

* Tom Croft
* Chris Robshaw
* Will Skinner
* Steffon Armitage
* Jordan Crane
* Joe Worsley

Scrum Halves:

* Danny Care
* Harry Ellis

Fly Halves:

* Jonny Wilkinson
* Shane Geraghty

Centres:

* Anthony Allen
* Dominic Waldouck
* Dan Hipkiss
* Matthew Tait

Wings:

* Ugo Monye
* Mark Cueto
* David Strettle
* Matt Banahan
* Paul Sackey/ Noah Cato

Fullbacks:

* Ben Foden

---------

I'd like to point out that Andrew Sheridan, Tom Rees, Toby Flood, Riki Flutey, Jordan Turner-Hall and Delon Armitage are all unavailable but would have made my squad.

I've picked just one fullback because we only have one player of proven international competence in both defence and attack - Armitage - and he is injured. Abendanon is a huge liability, Morgan and Brown are great GP players but not up to international level. Foden is also very flaky option, which is why I've picked 5 wingers (a position we are very strong in), of whom Cueto and Monye have both shown comptence playing at fullback.

Johnson will undoubtedly pick Moody and Tindall.[/b]

 

[gingergenius]

ANOTHER edit necessary :angry:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

discuss.

Mine, 2 for each position:

Props:

* <strike>Andrew Sheridan</strike> Dave Flatman
* Tim Payne
* David Wilson
* Phil Vickery

Hookers:

* Dylan Hartley
* <strike>Lee Mears</strike> George Chuter

Second Rows:

* Simon Shaw
* Courtney Lawes
* Steve Borthwick
* Nick Kennedy

Back Rows:

* Tom Croft
* Chris Robshaw
* Will Skinner
* Steffon Armitage
* Jordan Crane
* Joe Worsley

Scrum Halves:

* Danny Care
* Harry Ellis

Fly Halves:

* Jonny Wilkinson
* Shane Geraghty

Centres:

* Anthony Allen
* Dominic Waldouck
* Dan Hipkiss
* Matthew Tait

Wings:

* Ugo Monye
* Mark Cueto
* David Strettle
* Matt Banahan
* Paul Sackey/ Noah Cato

Fullbacks:

* Ben Foden

---------

I'd like to point out that Andrew Sheridan, Lee Mears, Tom Rees, Toby Flood, Riki Flutey, Jordan Turner-Hall and Delon Armitage are all unavailable but would have made my squad.

I've picked just one fullback because we only have one player of proven international competence in both defence and attack - Armitage - and he is injured. Abendanon is a huge liability, Morgan and Brown are great GP players but not up to international level. Foden is also very flaky option, which is why I've picked 5 wingers (a position we are very strong in), of whom Cueto and Monye have both shown comptence playing at fullback.

Johnson will undoubtedly pick Moody and Tindall.[/b]

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Oct 11 2009, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure I can handle Paul Hodgson at 9 to be honest. He may be having a blue patch of form but he's played for England before, with little effect. Ellis may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he is a reliable alternative. In terms of young, flairy scrum halves Joe Simpson loses out to Care and in the dependable category I'd have Ellis over Hodgson.

Also, not sure we should be selecting a weakened side against Argentina. We lost a game to them in the Summer (with a weakened side), they beat us at HQ a few years ago and they are a very good side.

The way the fixtures work, we've got Australia first which is great since we should beat them. If we do, then kicking players out of the side will lose us momentum. If we lose then there's no way anyone is taking the next match, Argentina, lightly.[/b]

I think Danny Care is the best 9 but has not been playing enough nor is Ellis. All are great players.

In terms of the Argentina match, I agree with you. It is likely to be more difficult than the Australian test for a few reasons:

1 It is Argentina's first test, but not Englands.

2 Australia will be playing England after having played New Zealand in Tokyo, Japan 7 days earlier. Australia also play Gloucester in a mid week matgch before playing England.

3 England have an edge of Australia in the pack, but they dont against Argentina. England vs Argentina in the forwards is pretty even.

4 The form of some of Argentina's players is worrying if you are English. Hernandez, Tiesi, Fernandez Lobbe, Albacete, Ledesma, Roncero, Ayerza, Amorisino, Camacho, Bosch and Agulla are all playing well in leading pro tournaments. Plenty of others are getting lots of game time too. Australian players, on the other hand have not had any kind of comparative rugby since the Tri Nations.

5 Argentina's players almost all speak perfect English and French and of course Spanish. It is something often not acknowledged, but is crucial, it is an edge for them. French fans were vocal about this folloowign the World Cup pool match when Argentina won.
[/b][/quote]

Don't presume that England have an edge on Australia in the pack. Last year Australia were more industrious in the loose and while (yet again) they didn't have any grunt in the scrum they employed cunning and intelligence to turn England's power advantage against them and turn the scrum into a mire. Don't be so sure that they've got the edge.


My view on Argentina vs England is that Argentinian power will come into play, if Henandez and whoever is replacing Contepomi (who is still out I presume, correct me here if he is back) keep England pinned back, retain possession and pound England with their big guys then magic will happen. Alternatively if England manage to control the game and keep going forwards then things will happen for them also.

Its going to be trench warfare between the two teams because both sets of players are used to fighting that kind of rugby battle. Especially Lobbe!

 

[An Tarbh]

add Vickery to your list now, he's also out for 3 months cause he needs to have neck surgery.

 

[gingergenius]

ANOTHER ANOTHER edit necessary :angry:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

discuss.

Mine, 2 for each position:

Props:

* <strike>Andrew Sheridan</strike> Dave Flatman
* Tim Payne
* David Wilson
* <strike>Phil Vickery</strike> Perry Freshwater

Hookers:

* Dylan Hartley
* <strike>Lee Mears</strike> George Chuter

Second Rows:

* Simon Shaw
* Courtney Lawes
* Steve Borthwick
* Nick Kennedy

Back Rows:

* Tom Croft
* Chris Robshaw
* Will Skinner
* <strike>Tom Rees</strike> Steffon Armitage
* Jordan Crane
* Joe Worsley

Scrum Halves:

* Danny Care
* Harry Ellis

Fly Halves:

* Jonny Wilkinson
* <strike>Toby Flood</strike> Shane Geraghty

Centres:

* <strike>Riki Flutey</strike> Anthony Allen
* <strike>Jordan Turner-Hall</strike> Dominic Waldouck
* Dan Hipkiss
* Matthew Tait

Back 3:

* Ugo Monye
* Mark Cueto
* David Strettle
* Matt Banahan
* <strike>Delon Armitage</strike> Noah Cato
* Ben Foden[/b]

 

[Olyy]

We're really getting through forwards =/

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah..we're kind of running out here we may have to bring Perry Freshwater back...



...*shivers*

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Oct 21 2009, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah..we're kind of running out here we may have to bring Perry Freshwater back...



...*shivers*[/b]

I also read today that Simon Shaw probably won't be available for the Australian match...

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Oct 21 2009, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah..we're kind of running out here we may have to bring Perry Freshwater back...



...*shivers*[/b]

Did he play on the same team as Johnno? Tick

Is he past his prime? Tick


It's looking more and more likely...

 

[gingergenius]

Well apart from Corbisiero (who's not getting any gametime atm, might be injured), I can't think of any English props who would do a better job than Freshwater. Duncan Bell might get the nod.

f*** I forgot Jason Hobson. Still, Freshwater's a better player than him too.

 

[MunsterMan]

Finally some good injury news for England......




















Harry Ellis will miss the AI's

 

[An Tarbh]

that's some good news in fairness as it wouldn't have been a surprise to see him picked.

 

[Olyy]

Wad reading rugby world yesterday and they consider Ellis to be one of the best SHs in the world =/
Not sure how making every throw excruciatingly slowly makes him great
At least this means more game time for the other scrumhalves, instead of sharing it with someone who's only really there because he's a Tiger

 

[gingergenius]

ANOTHER ANOTHER ANOTHER edit necessary :angry:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 11 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

discuss.

Mine, 2 for each position:

Props:

* <strike>Andrew Sheridan</strike> Dave Flatman
* Tim Payne
* David Wilson
* <strike>Phil Vickery</strike> Perry Freshwater

Hookers:

* Dylan Hartley
* <strike>Lee Mears</strike> George Chuter

Second Rows:

* Simon Shaw
* Courtney Lawes
* Steve Borthwick
* Nick Kennedy

Back Rows:

* Tom Croft
* Chris Robshaw
* Will Skinner
* <strike>Tom Rees</strike> Steffon Armitage
* Jordan Crane
* Joe Worsley

Scrum Halves:

* Danny Care
* <strike>Harry Ellis</strike> Paul Hodgson

Fly Halves:

* Jonny Wilkinson
* <strike>Toby Flood</strike> Shane Geraghty

Centres:

* <strike>Riki Flutey</strike> Anthony Allen
* <strike>Jordan Turner-Hall</strike> Dominic Waldouck
* Dan Hipkiss
* Matthew Tait

Back 3:

* Ugo Monye
* Mark Cueto
* David Strettle
* Matt Banahan
* <strike>Delon Armitage</strike> Noah Cato
* Ben Foden[/b]

Let's grab some players to put on standby as well... Julian White for prop, David Paice at hooker, Joe Simpson at scrum half and Charlie Hodgson (eek) at fly half.