England Six Nations Squad 2025

[TRF_Olyy]

Hopefully he's blocked

 

[higgik]

Is he? Surely not.. although Savea is a 7 not an 8

Plays 8 depending on opposition, a great thing about many ABs they can adapt.

 

[Scotty]

We need to dump SB and find a new attacking coach. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Wales beat us

Is this 1 suggestion or 2? As SB isn't the attack coach? As I'd agree a new attack coach but SB will be there for a while, id get Blacket or Vesty in and Wiggs out or demoted to box kicking coach(sure that's a thing )

 

[Which Tyler]

Hopefully he's blocked

Hopefully he's not blocked, but we're looking to invest in Atkinson/Ojomoh/Dingwall/Hartley instead

 

[BPM]

Without going into the anti-Marcus sentiments, which TBH, I haven't really seen (I suspect it's on twatter, facebook, insta etc - where it's nicely hidden from my view)...
I can answer this one for you. It's based on how each of them play for their club, how Marcus plays for England, and what we've seen of of how Finn plays for England.

Obviously, it's way too early to hail Finn as the new messiah (not that that's ever stopped anyone before, for any player); but it's absolutely fair and valid to see what Marcus does at Quins, and what Finn does at Saints, and prefer the latter.
It's also fair and valid to prefer the former.


ETA: and to prove the lie to my first sentence above...
This is NOT Ford v Farrell, where one was potentially world class in all aspects, and one only in attitude, but lacking in skills and vision.
Marcus v Finn is 2 potentially world class talents, both currently let down by one aspect that should improve with international game time.
IMO Marcus has shown progress towards addressing his weakness - but he's also got 44 caps and well over 2400 international minutes (not to mention 170+ and >12,000 at club), he really should have by now.

FTR: I also appreciate that Marcus fans who are exposed to whatever bullshit is being thrown about on antisocial media have found themselves going the opposite direction, and become a bit blind to his faults - we've all been there "defending" our man from unwarranted attack - we just lose objectivity.

The thing is, my post was less about Marcus Smith and more about the definitive nature of the statements being made about Fin. I like him but I find it weird how readily it seems to have been already decided that he is the better option after two games. Even more so when England's backs did next to nothing against Scotland.

I personally prefer Marcus and think he did more than enough over the past 12mths to have kept the 10 shirt. However, ultimately I want what is best for the team. If that's Fin so be it. I just take issue with how quickly he's been accepted as the right man on very little evidence.

 

[NickBD]

Hopefully he's not blocked, but we're looking to invest in Atkinson/Ojomoh/Dingwall/Hartley instead

You think so? kind of feels like if he became available he'd get selected quickly. Tim from Eggchasers was saying he had a chance to go to France but went to Bristol to have a chance and the RFU might have helped with that.

Speaking of Tim from Eggchasers did a video saying world rugby might be changing the rules and might be partly down to him playing the South Africa U20s. That answers my question.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The thing is, my post was less about Marcus Smith and more about the definitive nature of the statements being made about Fin. I like him but I find it weird how readily it seems to have been already decided that he is the better option after two games. Even more so when England's backs did next to nothing against Scotland.

I personally prefer Marcus and think he did more than enough over the past 12mths to have kept the 10 shirt. However, ultimately I want what is best for the team. If that's Fin so be it. I just take issue with how quickly he's been accepted as the right man on very little evidence.

It's a very English media thing to want either fin or Marcus to be rubbish while the other one is the next best thing.

The reality is they are both brilliant players but both still learning. Any other country would love to be in our position. Both fantastic players.

 

[BrokenWing]

You think so? kind of feels like if he became available he'd get selected quickly. Tim from Eggchasers was saying he had a chance to go to France but went to Bristol to have a chance and the RFU might have helped with that.

Speaking of Tim from Eggchasers did a video saying world rugby might be changing the rules and might be partly down to him playing the South Africa U20s. That answers my question.

He'll be eligible summer next year.

From what I understand, it's because the South Africa under 20s was at the time the SA second team. However, as he played against Argentina under 20s and that isn't their second team, it shouldn't count as a capture game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You think so? kind of feels like if he became available he'd get selected quickly. Tim from Eggchasers was saying he had a chance to go to France but went to Bristol to have a chance and the RFU might have helped with that.

Speaking of Tim from Eggchasers did a video saying world rugby might be changing the rules and might be partly down to him playing the South Africa U20s. That answers my question.

Revolting

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He'll be eligible summer next year.

From what I understand, it's because the South Africa under 20s was at the time the SA second team. However, as he played against Argentina under 20s and that isn't their second team, it shouldn't count as a capture game.

I think the problem is that when he played - a grand total of 21 minutes - the status of the opposition was irrelevant. Simply playing for the U20s - the Boks designated capture team - was enough.

The rules changed a couple of times around that time. A couple of years earlier the U20s were still the Boks capture team, but that also had to be the case for the opposition too. That's how Van der Merwe and Schoeman played for the U20s but were still able to become Jock Boks.

 

[BPM]

I like the fact that we don't currently have any blatantly imported talent in our squad.

IFW is currently the only real exception (I think there is at least some credit to the time he has spent in English schools/clubs though) and I definitely don't want us to go down the route of capping more South Africans etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like the fact that we don't currently have any blatantly imported talent in our squad.

IFW is currently the only real exception (I think there is at least some credit to the time he has spent in English schools/clubs though) and I definitely don't want us to go down the route of capping more South Africans etc.

I choose to believe IFW is in a grey zone because he was technically in Wasps academy (and Chiefs, too?) before signing his first senior deal

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Apparently Seb Atkinson recently ran a 4:08 bronco. That's a genuinely insane time, especially in a test generally dominated by lightweight 9s/10s.

 

[Rinkadink]

Well, I hope BJVR is able to play for England as I'm sure he'll be a revelation... so far as one can actually occur under Borthwick anyway.

More details here;

https://archive.ph/6MOBj

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Yeah yeah we want Boks rejects asap

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I like the fact that we don't currently have any blatantly imported talent in our squad.

IFW is currently the only real exception (I think there is at least some credit to the time he has spent in English schools/clubs though) and I definitely don't want us to go down the route of capping more South Africans etc.

Agreed, although couldn't we just make the teeniest exception for centres…..

….and locks….

….and scrum halves?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I really hope BJVR doesn't play

It just mental to me you have fans with the view set that they are excited for him to play for us. It's like treating the national team like a club at that point

 

[BPM]

Same. I think he's a brilliant player and might even be the best uncapped 12 in the world game right now. However, he is not English and therefore we should not be courting him.

Let's focus our time and energy on the likes of Atkinson, Ojomoh, Hartley, Woodward and Waghorn please.

 

[Flankers' paradise]

On Marcus Smith, I think there is a comparison with Finn Russell to be made. Obviously both 'mercurial' but Russell was around for several years internationally before probably a combination of maturity and the right coaching set up led to the player of today. There's no reason MS is any different. must be hard when he's being coached into oblivion by Excel and Ready Salted crisps

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm a little more sanguine on Van Rensburg.

Obviously I'd prefer the England team to all be born within the sound of the Bow bells and be called Tarquin Double-Barrelled. But….

It's still a big if that he might even be eligible so it could be a total moot point. But the railing should be against the rules, not the player or England coaches.

And IF he does become eligible, SB should take a long hard look at him (a) would he improve the team - really quite likely (b) would he upset group dynamics - might be a risk, but probably unlikely after the first 10 minutes and (c) how will Twickenham and the shires react - if he is the missing piece of the jigsaw that helps us become more successful and attractive to watch the vast majority probably won't really care beyond a wistful "well of course I'd prefer it he'd been born over here, but….".

I guess the other thing for me is that right now it wouldn't be a marginal call between him and all the other potentials for that shirt. Different matter for say Vermeulen who, if he could make a difference, it would be marginal at best.