England Six Nations Squad 2025

[Ragey Erasmus]

Regardless of whether they would be relatively average or not, can we at least experiment with the radical idea of a 12 at 12 and building a consistent centre partnership? Can it really be that much worse than constantly chopping and changing, every time having a player that isn't 12 at 12.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Regardless of whether they would be relatively average or not, can we at least experiment with the radical idea of a 12 at 12 and building a consistent centre partnership? Can it really be that much worse than constantly chopping and changing, every time having a player that isn't 12 at 12.

Absolutely, hence why I said that I hope to see one or both of Dingwall/Atkinson given a decent chance at the shirt. I'd love for them to prove me wrong and show that they're up to the standard; I'm just currently unconvinced that either of them are.

 

[AlRums]

Problem with the turn style at 12. Ankles made of concrete

Do you mean Brian Habana would notice and turn inside him?

 

[Which Tyler]

Ojomoh is a possible, but is not playing regularly for his club.

Is he not? Other than when injured at the start of this season, I mean.
54 matches (46 starts) in the previous 3 seasons doesn't scream "not playing regularly" to me; then this season, he's played 8 out of 8 matches since regaining fitness this season.

Do we know what style England want to play? are Lawrence and Slade the same style of IC?

Nothing against Northmore or Beard by the way (though you'll have to remind me how many times either has played IC, I think of them as OCs), it was more a comment on Joseph Jr and Waghorn (both of whom, I also think of, as OCs).
Though I will note that Northmore (27, with 50 starts) and Beard (23 with 42 starts) don't stand out to me as being either superior, or more experienced than Ojomoh (24 with 59 starts) or Atkinson (22 with 53 starts)

ETA: Out of interest, the same logic rules Will Stuart out of contention for England at THP

Personally don't really think Ojomoh belongs in the conversation until he's either moved club or pushed ahead of Redpath. I know we're a bit desperate but he's made 4 starts at 12 this season; that just isn't enough to be pushing for international honours yet.

Wow - "player was injured at the start of this season, therefore shouldn't get a chance with England in the summer"
6 starts this season - but compared to others being mentions, Waghorn has 8 ever, or Joseph's... 6

Dingwall and Atkinson kinda fall into the same category as each other for me in that I don't think either of them would be actively **** at international level but neither would be particularly impressive either. Certainly can't really see either of them making the shirt their own. Both have done enough at club level to deserve a chance to prove otherwise though and I hope to see them get that chance in Argentina and during the autumn.

Fair enough - I actually agree on Dingwall, but not Atkinson. The point is though, we're looking for someone to be given a chance at IC, and when I made my post, people were suggesting OCs who have done less to earn a chance (and at that point, exclusively from Quins).

Northmore I think is perhaps slightly more talented than the two above but also slightly older and way more injury prone. Unfortunately I think his injury record is enough to disqualify him from the conversation as he just won't be able to put a run of games together to really prove himself more worthy than the younger guys. I do really like the way he plays the game though and would be very happy to see him get a chance should his injury woes sort themselves out.

For me, Northmore HAS been overtaken by the younger guys; he's both a few years older than the three I brought up, whilst also less experiences (and in my mind, another OC - though I appreciate that he's a bilateral centre, rather than a specialist)

I've been saying it for a while but Hartley is the guy who I have highest hopes for. It's probably fair to say that he's currently the least experienced/established of the bunch but he's also the one who I think has the raw attributes to actually make a real impression at international level. He's got the size, athleticism and skill level; now he just needs to start putting it all into practice. Stylistically I think he could be our answer to Jordie. He's still a good couple of years off though (at least).

Yep, high hopes for Hartley - I was just forgetting him when naming "my" 3. IMO he should absolutely be up there in the conversation with Atkinson, Ojomoh and Dingwall.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think there are a lot of centres that could partner Lawrence and look good. My issue would be if Lawrence got injured who comes in to bring the stardust.

I'd like 3 centres in our squad, a 12 a 13 and someone who plays both so we keep combinations going (like Aki, ringworm and Henchshaw). I know Lawrence is one of those but I'm not sure Slade is consistent enough to warrant a constant place in the squad.

But in the same breath I'm not sure we have any proven options so he might have to stay there until we bring someone through.

I also can't see a reason not to bring Max O through, club partner and great rounded player. But let's bring him through against Italy or someone like that or maybe Wales.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't think there's a burning platform to get rid of Slade.

He is about to turn 32 though, so there should be a clear succession plan.

Lots of names thrown around but some really don't have enough club experience yet. Dingwall looked a bit out of his depth when given a shot, but he might look very different playing alongside F Smith. Alternatively Ojomoh alongside Lawrence might be an option.

Without dissing M Smith, Freeman basically saying that club combos are a good thing. Openly saying that for his try he instinctively knew what was coming as he picked up the early cues from F Smith's body language in a way he wouldn't from someone else. That fraction of a second not having think before acting may have been the difference between a try and not….it was a one score game, as so many of England's have been.

Murley said exactly the same about M Smith before the Ire game. And it makes perfect sense.

 

[Scotty]

I think there are a lot of centres that could partner Lawrence and look good. My issue would be if Lawrence got injured who comes in to bring the stardust.

I'd like 3 centres in our squad, a 12 a 13 and someone who plays both so we keep combinations going (like Aki, ringworm and Henchshaw). I know Lawrence is one of those but I'm not sure Slade is consistent enough to warrant a constant place in the squad.

But in the same breath I'm not sure we have any proven options so he might have to stay there until we bring someone through.

I also can't see a reason not to bring Max O through, club partner and great rounded player. But let's bring him through against Italy or someone like that or maybe Wales.

Ojomoh is club partner to Lawrence which helps, probably the best choice and worth being given a shot it the summer. Also with Lawrence and Ojomoh don't they change position in games like Slade and Lawrence do meaning Ojomoh Slade could also work if Lawrence were injured.

Slades a much different player but doesn't mean is isn't a v good outside centre, we just need to nail down a 12.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Does noone rate Beard at all then?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Does noone rate Beard at all then?

Have no views. Not really noticed him that much, for good or for bad, in the few Quins games I've seen.

But our 12 doesn't have to shoot the lights out. Just being physically up to the international game and reliably doing the right thing allowing those around to weave the magic will be fine - the mythological glue player.

 

[BPM]

Is he not? Other than when injured at the start of this season, I mean.
54 matches (46 starts) in the previous 3 seasons doesn't scream "not playing regularly" to me; then this season, he's played 8 out of 8 matches since regaining fitness this season.

Do we know what style England want to play? are Lawrence and Slade the same style of IC?

Nothing against Northmore or Beard by the way (though you'll have to remind me how many times either has played IC, I think of them as OCs), it was more a comment on Joseph Jr and Waghorn (both of whom, I also think of, as OCs).
Though I will note that Northmore (27, with 50 starts) and Beard (23 with 42 starts) don't stand out to me as being either superior, or more experienced than Ojomoh (24 with 59 starts) or Atkinson (22 with 53 starts)

ETA: Out of interest, the same logic rules Will Stuart out of contention for England at THP

Wow - "player was injured at the start of this season, therefore shouldn't get a chance with England in the summer"
6 starts this season - but compared to others being mentions, Waghorn has 8 ever, or Joseph's... 6


Fair enough - I actually agree on Dingwall, but not Atkinson. The point is though, we're looking for someone to be given a chance at IC, and when I made my post, people were suggesting OCs who have done less to earn a chance (and at that point, exclusively from Quins).


For me, Northmore HAS been overtaken by the younger guys; he's both a few years older than the three I brought up, whilst also less experiences (and in my mind, another OC - though I appreciate that he's a bilateral centre, rather than a specialist)


Yep, high hopes for Hartley - I was just forgetting him when naming "my" 3. IMO he should absolutely be up there in the conversation with Atkinson, Ojomoh and Dingwall.

Thanks @Which Tyler. Saved me a lot of effort there by wonderfully articulating my own thoughts.

The only thing I slightly disagree on is Dingwall. I feel he's been a little hard done by. He didn't stand out when he got his chance but he also didn't do a lot wrong and the whole team was pretty poor in those games.

Northmore has simply been overtaken due to his inability to stay fit. You can't keep the shirt if you're rarely fit enough to wear it.

Does noone rate Beard at all then?

I didn't rate him particularly, but he's kicked on massively in the last 12 months. Particularly in defence. Unless Marchant comes back (please Joe!), he'd be my pick to take over from Slade.

A little harsh on Dingwall but Beard has more stand out qualities.

Joseph is a funny one. I was very excited when he signed for Quins and he immediately looked good, only to get injured and then struggle to get back ahead of Northmore and Beard. If Gloucester continue with their current brand of rugby, a pairing Of Atkinson and Joseph could be one to watch.

 

[Geordie]

Does noone rate Beard at all then?

Yes many of us do.

 

[Wasps92]

George's had slipped a bit in the last couple of years though. I'd definitely be giving LCD the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

George also had Chessum to throw to, a luxury LCD wasn't afforded.

 

[Which Tyler]

Does noone rate Beard at all then?

As an inside centre?
I'd need to see him there first.

As an outside centre?
Yes, absolutely, but that's not currently the problem position

The only thing I slightly disagree on is Dingwall. I feel he's been a little hard done by. He didn't stand out when he got his chance but he also didn't do a lot wrong and the whole team was pretty poor in those games.

For me, Dingwall (now he's got more gametime at IC) has his place alongside Atkinson, Ojomoh and Hartley in the "has earned a shot for EngA and in the summer"
Those 4, I'd currently rate Seb Atkinson > Ojomoh > Dingwall > Hartley. There's not that much in it between any of them.
SA, I just really like his skillset. Dingwall has earned a chance, and I wouldn't complain about his selection; I'm just not convinced that he has what it takes to step up - it's an instinct thing, nothing I could put my finger on to explain why. OH is just a bit behind the other 3 in terms of development.

The other centres mentioned have mostly (all?) been of the outside variety, and they'd be challenging Lawrence, not Slade.

 

[Geordie]

As an inside centre?
I'd need to see him there first.

As an outside centre?
Yes, absolutely, but that's not currently the problem position

Hes not a 12. Hes a 13.

As i see it
12's
Atkinson
Ojomoh
Hartley

13's
Northmore who can play12
Beard
Lawrence whos currently playing mostly 12 for England
Slade
Joseph
Dingwall who can play 12

Would you agree?

 

[Which Tyler]

Lawrence whos currently playing mostly 12

Errr... what now?

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Four tests this autumn which doesn't always happen in a Lions year.

 

[Geordie]

Errr... what now?

I tweaked it....FOR ENGLAND

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Four tests this autumn which doesn't always happen in a Lions year.

Makes total sense from a welfare and rest perspective. Presumably full strength Aus and ABs and I don't think we'll be much below Arg and Fij either.

 

[Geordie]

England for Coaches for England A v Ireland A for game 23rd Feb

Lee Blackett - Head Coach & Attack Coach
Haydon Thomas - Defence Coach
Louis Deacon - Forwards Coach
Matt Ferguson - Scrum Coach