England Six Nations Squad 2025

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Agree CCS looks more like an 8.

Did you literally mean Baxter and Heyes looked good on the bench? Or from it?

Obviously Martin is heavier than Chessum but only by 6 kilos or so. It's not like Martin's 135kg.

Yeah but Martin is also smaller. You just need to see their builds to see the style difference.
On the props I meant from the bench.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And just on Saturday's match, let's not forget that this isn't really peak Ireland. Aging in many positions and

No Furlong. And O'Toole who might have been on the bench in his absence wasn't available.

Sheehan prob Lions starter only on bench.

No McCarthy who's been a first choice lock. Replaced by a (admittedly very good) hybrid.

10 still to be resolved in post Sexton era.

Massively experienced bench but I don't think anyone would argue against Healy, Murray and probably Henderson's best days being in the rear view mirror. POM who had been a staple wasn't involved.

And their head coach wasn't around either.

Just some context when evaluating our performance.

BTW If you think things are negative on here, try reading today's Times…..and that's without a contribution from S Jones.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Really we have looked our best pack wise with a Lawes or Chessum at 6

 

[Geordie]

But that is a an England system problem you look at the carries in general only 2 forwards broke more than 1 tackle and they are Dan and Earl with no line breaks.

Absolutely.. I like Martin but I just don't think we're necessarily getting out of him what he can actually bring. And as you say that must be the system and set up.

I need to have a look at the full stats...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Really we have looked our best pack wise with a Lawes or Chessum at 6

I think that's testament to Lawes being both a brilliant rugby player and athlete (plus a shedload of experience). He's one who really evolved his game over time.

Chessum's the nearest, and probably only remotely viable, proxy. Not quite in that league yet, but I rate him and he may come close over time.

Chessum, a Curry and probably Willis has some balance. At least on paper.

BTW I have been a bit critical of T Curry having been picked on reputation in the past. I stand by that but I'll also give credit where due and I thought he looked much more like himself on Saturday.

 

[Geordie]

Yeah.

When Martin came on the scene, in most games there'd be a couple of shuddering moments from him. Knocking the wind out of opposing carriers or rampaging over defenders and making yards when he did have the ball. At the time I wrote on here that he was one of our most important players as he was instrumental in setting the tempo and mood. He's worth his place, but we've seen much less of those big impactful moments from him. Same reason why I'm such a fan of Underhill. It's one thing being industrious, quite another making a difference.

Is it a coincidence that the likes of him and Earl etc who are some of our big carriers are not delivering. As above is this the system hurting our players strengths?

 

[Saintjay]

And just on Saturday's match, let's not forget that this isn't really peak Ireland. Aging in many positions and

No Furlong. And O'Toole who might have been on the bench in his absence wasn't available.

Sheehan prob Lions starter only on bench.

No McCarthy who's been a first choice lock. Replaced by a (admittedly very good) hybrid.

10 still to be resolved in post Sexton era.

Massively experienced bench but I don't think anyone would argue against Healy, Murray and probably Henderson's best days being in the rear view mirror. POM who had been a staple wasn't involved.

And their head coach wasn't around either.

Just some context when evaluating our performance.

BTW If you think things are negative on here, try reading today's Times…..and that's without a contribution from S Jones.

One of the best points I heard was there's no shame in England losing to Ireland in Dublin. Currently they win 2 from 10 in Ireland.

Ireland would probably select about 3 England players given a choice.

 

[BPM]

I don't understand this at all. They're simply a better team than us right now and have been for the last while.

More to the point, what test side has a good record in Dublin?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

One of the best points I heard was there's no shame in England losing to Ireland in Dublin. Currently they win 2 from 10 in Ireland.

Ireland would probably select about 3 England players given a choice.

Agreed. But having started so well, against the odds, what then happened was so frustrating.

But don't forget that Ire hadn't troubled the scoreboard until JGP's try in the 35th minute. Sorry to point the finger at Mitchell but in hindsight his missed tackle there has all the feelings of a massive momentum shift. Going in 10-0 up would've been huge. Ire may still have turned it around, but that would have been a big confidence boost, and scoring first in the second half would have made things really interesting. Instead Ire took the lift by being closer on the scoreboard and knowing that we have frailties. Quite apart to what that did to Mitchell's personal mindset.

 

[Geordie]

I thought Ireland hadn't lost there in 20 games not 10?

 

[Saintjay]

Agreed. But having started so well what then happened was so frustrating.

Don't forget that Ire hadn't troubled the scoreboard until JGP's try in the 35th minute. Sorry to point the finger at Mitchell but his missed tackle there has all the feelings of a massive momentum shift. Going in 10-0 up would've been huge.

We seem to have a trend in losing games from a lead. Not sure how many now but it's been a few.

We start well, gain a lead then switch to a conservative approach. No sure if it's tactics but we don't seem to be able keep our foot on the throat of teams. Subs etc seem very planned vs reactive to what's going on in game

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Coaching staff need to let the lads play a bit more I reckon, barely fired a shot after that first try until the last two but by that time it was to late.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I thought Ireland hadn't lost there in 20 games not 10?

It was 19 before NZ 1 loss in 24 now.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

It was 19 before NZ 1 loss in 24 now.

Fortress

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Genuine question.

Has Freeman played much FB for Saints? I think he's played some, but not sure. As a back 3 player that might appear a more natural home for him than centre which has often been mooted.

Steward has strengths but also flaws that have been done to death. Whatever the answers 15 is, it's not M Smith. Obviously at Saints opportunities would be limited when Furbank's around.

Tall, but not too big. Quick but not out and out gas man. Decent hands, rangy runner that might suit the spaces you can get at FB. No idea what he'd be like under the high ball and a mistake on Saturday notwithstanding I think his defence is usually OK.

Not today or tomorrow, but wondering if he might be our 15 in the long term.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think he came out of the academy as mainly a 15, and got a lot of game time there early on (17 senior starts) - last start there was 2022 though (and only two starts there that season)
I can't see it tbh, too much competition at club level to play there much and we've got a few 15s floating around that I'd rather look at before shifting him there

If I were moving him it would be to 13 - but I don't see the need to

 

[Saintjay]

I thinks he's outside centre starts are getting nearly as many as his full back starts.

You have Freeman, Hendy, Furbank and Sleightholme all looking for back three spots. Hendy and Furbs definitely my prefered 15 options at the mo for Saints.