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England Six Nations Squad 2025

Vieux Talonneur said:
Take your point, but it's just a bit silly when you look at our recent track record and the calibre of some of the opposition.

He can acknowledge the areas where we need to improve without making daft statements like that. Or say that we aspire to be in the mix.

Yesterday's fish and chip paper soon enough, but I just find that sort of stuff irritating. Fight your corner, but in an honest and rational way.
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What part of it wasn't honest and rational, England did beat the eventual winners last year, did look good in parts against Scotland and once again got torn open, did put on a half descent showing against France, if England do play their game for the full 80 they do have a realistic chance of doing well, the AI have put a big dampener on things and I'm not expecting much from the tournament, I just don't see that him saying that if England play their game they can beat any team is a problematic or bad statement to make.
 
Jimbo said:
What part of it wasn't honest and rational, England did beat the eventual winners last year, did look good in parts against Scotland and once again got torn open, did put on a half descent showing against France, if England do play their game for the full 80 they do have a realistic chance of doing well, the AI have put a big dampener on things and I'm not expecting much from the tournament, I just don't see that him saying that if England play their game they can beat any team is a problematic or bad statement to make.
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OK, I really should know better, but I'll bite…..

If the tone had been more, we've not been far off and are hell bent on turning narrow losses into wins then fine. But saying if we get our act together we can beat anyone and implying a possible GS (or at least giving journos the ammunition to do so) will be perceived by many as outright arrogant or deluded. We haven't remotely been near a ***le let alone a GS in ages and only a tiny minority of the squad have the remotest idea what it takes from 2016. If you're going to make bold statements at least do some from a position of strength - for the most part we're a team that's figured out a way to lose, not win, against decent opposition. And that's before you think about where we stand in the rankings vs Ire and Fra or Sco's recent record against us.

Taking about Ireland specifically he then goes on to say that's the kind of match that gets the best out of him and the team. What, away 6N fixtures against decent opposition? During Itoje's career we've won 6N games once in Fra (2016) and once in Ire (2019, a very good performance). Record a bit better in Sco although we've lost the last 2 since winning in 2020….since when all 3 of those countries have stormed the HQ barricades at least once, twice in the case of Sco and in record style by Fra. I hope it turns round but at the moment the win v Ire is very much the exception to the rule, not solid roots.

All this is of precisely no consequence, but that's why it grated. And getting disproportionately annoyed by stuff like this also explains why I generally avoid interviews like the plague!!
 
I said it before. If England were playing well and just losing against the top 4 also playing well then maybe. But we either just win or lose against the top 4 who weren't playing great.

How about England put in a good 80 minute performance before we talk about winning anything?
 
Tbh, my issue is less with Itoje and more fans hyping England up. Yeah he has to say it, but fans shouldn't be so delusional.
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
OK, I really should know better, but I'll bite…..

If the tone had been more, we've not been far off and are hell bent on turning narrow losses into wins then fine. But saying if we get our act together we can beat anyone and implying a possible GS (or at least giving journos the ammunition to do so) will be perceived by many as outright arrogant or deluded. We haven't remotely been near a ***le let alone a GS in ages and only a tiny minority of the squad have the remotest idea what it takes from 2016. If you're going to make bold statements at least do some from a position of strength - for the most part we're a team that's figured out a way to lose, not win, against decent opposition. And that's before you think about where we stand in the rankings vs Ire and Fra or Sco's recent record against us.

Taking about Ireland specifically he then goes on to say that's the kind of match that gets the best out of him and the team. What, away 6N fixtures against decent opposition? During Itoje's career we've won 6N games once in Fra (2016) and once in Ire (2019, a very good performance). Record a bit better in Sco although we've lost the last 2 since winning in 2020….since when all 3 of those countries have stormed the HQ barricades at least once, twice in the case of Sco and in record style by Fra. I hope it turns round but at the moment the win v Ire is very much the exception to the rule, not solid roots.

All this is of precisely no consequence, but that's why it grated. And getting disproportionately annoyed by stuff like this also explains why I generally avoid interviews like the plague!!
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That's exactly why I've not gone into a Six Nations with any real confidence for years because when we play good teams away from home it's very much a case of hoping we turn up rather than expecting us to. England away from home in the 6N have been outright depressing to watch for longer than I care to remember. That Irish game in 2019 was probably the one truly great away performance I can remember from us in the last 6/7 years. Even in our last ***le in 2020 we beat Scotland in atrocious weather conditions that were basically a lottery - and we were absolutely abysmal in France and deservedly lost.

I have no problem with Itoje saying "we can beat everyone" in camp, but when stuff like that is put out in public it just adds extra pressure on to a team that has struggled to win big games in the last few years. I get you have to have belief but that line will be easy fodder for journalists if it starts going wrong.

This team needs to get to a stage where we can have confidence in them turning up in every big game away from home. At Twickenham against the big boys I know that we'll turn in a performance but just performing in home games and going missing as soon as it gets difficult away from home is exactly the type of thing Scotland used to do. I reckon if we're going to reverse that away trend this year is our chance. Wales are currently a shambles so losing to them would be embarrassing and Ireland looked a bit off the pace in the Autumn and they've not got Andy Farrell. 3 home games and one our aways being Wales is as favourable a draw as we could get at the moment. If we don't challenge this year then we we'll be stuck in mid-table for the next 4/5 years.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
What's he supposed to say? "Yeah, we're really **** aren't we?"

A brand new captain saying "If we play as well as we believe we can play then we could win the whole thing" is such an inoffensive statement
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Doesn't have to be an extreme either / or though does it?

Results have not been where we want (true, no secret), but we have been competitive (true) and have an exciting crop of players coming through following a massive overhaul after the RWC (true) and am excited about what this team might achieve over the coming period (positive without over promising).

You're right, it's inoffensive, it's not Jones "greatest team in history" level but it will be replayed back by the media if we fall well short.
 
Well it'd be rude not to wade in on the Itoje comment wouldn't it? Don't see the issue with the comment. He's a new captain of a tear 1 team. He has to say something like that, and it wouldn't do the players any good to play things down. He's got to inspire belief. So that's that.

Now, onto reality. Lots of chat about past performance, which we all know isn't great, but I'm not sure the AIs, and the NZ tour were all that bad given we are still not fully rebuilt as a squad and with all the coaching nonsense behind the scenes. None of those games were huge loses, and could have gone either way, which frankly is great improvement. I think there's a huge amount of talent I. The England team. Watching some of these lads in the prem you can see what they can do. I think Itoje is right. If that talent manages to click on the field, and is combined with the sort of passion we see in other teams, England could be pretty formidable. Are the chances of this "clicking" coming together I the next 7 days high? No. Is it impossible? Also no. So I'm going to chose to live in hope. Some exciting young talent coming through and i look forward to see what they can do in an England shirt.

And I know it's been said earlier, but at least we aren't Welsh!
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
What a load of old Pollocks.

"….England A game capped me, so unfortunately for the next 3 years I will be trying to push for that England squad".

Just further evidence that players are generally best kept away from the press 😀
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I saw that interview - it was with Jim Hamilton and Andy Goode - the Saint and Greavesie of Rugby.

When they inevitably brought up his Scottishness (I think it was Goode, to provoke Hamilton) I started pre cringing at what Pollock was inevitably going to say.

His choices were either to refuse to discuss it (and tbf few 19 year olds have the strength of will to do that), say he is 100% English and annoy and motivate the Scots, or put his foot in it.

He went for option 3 ...
 
LardFingers said:
I saw that interview - it was with Jim Hamilton and Andy Goode - the Saint and Greavesie of Rugby.

When they inevitably brought up his Scottishness (I think it was Goode, to provoke Hamilton) I started pre cringing at what Pollock was inevitably going to say.

His choices were either to refuse to discuss it (and tbf few 19 year olds have the strength of will to do that), say he is 100% English and annoy and motivate the Scots, or put his foot in it.

He went for option 3 ...
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In all fairness he's a kid. His sweary tv interview would have told people he doesn't always engage brain before mouth.

I'm assuming it's the same interview The Rugby Pod where he jokes about the mistake of smashing Courtney and choking out Freeman wrestling. It was all very light hearted and definitely not to be taken seriously.
 
Saintjay said:
In all fairness he's a kid. His sweary tv interview would have told people he doesn't always engage brain before mouth.

I'm assuming it's the same interview The Rugby Pod where he jokes about the mistake of smashing Courtney and choking out Freeman wrestling. It was all very light hearted and definitely not to be taken seriously.
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Yes it was that interview - it was quite light hearted and fun.
 
So the team for Ire. I'll guess at:

1. Genge mainly through lack of competition

2. LCD - going well

3. Stuart - improving

4. Itoje - established, but will captaincy inspire or drag on performance?

5. Martin. Don't think we've seen the best of him for a while.

6, 7, 8. Genuinely no idea. Will guess at CCS, T Curry and Earl. Could just as easily be Chessum, B Curry and Willis.

9. Mitchell if fit

10. M Smith. Pls not at 15

11. Freeman

Centres I guess he'll start Lawrence and Slade but they've never hugely gelled so suspect others will be tried during the course of the Championship.

14. Murley - in form and Sleightholme has injury question marks.

15. Steward. Ire won't be daft enough to play to his strengths and will look to exploit his weaknesses. Realistically though, who else?

Baxter, Dan, Heyes, Chessum, Willis, JvP, F Smith, Roebuck.
 

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