England Six Nations Squad 2025

[McTallshort]

I would question the theory that England lost those games because they lacked leadership in the last quarter. I would submit that the reason England lost a lot of those games, particularly the autumn internationals, was because they weren't very good for the whole 80 minutes. Take the November game against Newzealand. I think England were lucky to be in that game coming into the last quarter. They scored a fortunate try to get themselves back in the game.
Against Australia their defence was leaky the whole game not just in the last 20 minutes.

They weren't very good in certain areas in particular the scrum. If your scrums going backwards then you are going to ship points. I remember all the talk about Ford coming on against NZ but know one in the press or YouTube world seemed to pick up England shipping I believe 3 scrum pens in the last 20 minutes?

Englands problem is the front row. If that gets sorted and with the age of this current team then there could be bright years ahead but if they don't then it doesn't matter who's the coach, who's playing fly half, who in the RFU is getting bonuses or how many players can't be selected because they are playing in France it will continue to be disappointing in terms of results (although I have enjoyed watching the close games even if the results haven't been great)

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

Will the burden of captaincy impact Maro's personal game? We've seen players who have had to grow into being captain and a first game away in Dublin is a stiff test.
The point has been made upthread about Maro regularly playing the full 80. That also means that he has been on the pitch for the final quarter collapses also mentioned upthread. I don't doubt his ability to lead by example, but can he inspire confidence when the French/Irish/SA/Scots are hammering your line, or you're 2 points behind with 3 minutes to go? Is the recent Sarries visit to Thomond an example of a team that would have closed out the game a few years ago? Is he the leader that England needs?

 

[Saintjay]

Will the burden of captaincy impact Maro's personal game? We've seen players who have had to grow into being captain and a first game away in Dublin is a stiff test.
The point has been made upthread about Maro regularly playing the full 80. That also means that he has been on the pitch for the final quarter collapses also mentioned upthread. I don't doubt his ability to lead by example, but can he inspire confidence when the French/Irish/SA/Scots are hammering your line, or you're 2 points behind with 3 minutes to go? Is the recent Sarries visit to Thomond an example of a team that would have closed out the game a few years ago? Is he the leader that England needs?

The thing is who else is there. Borthwick has said the preference is a player who plays the full 80. So who else is a guaranteed starter whos is going the 80. With that criteria it's not many.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Will the burden of captaincy impact Maro's personal game? We've seen players who have had to grow into being captain and a first game away in Dublin is a stiff test.
The point has been made upthread about Maro regularly playing the full 80. That also means that he has been on the pitch for the final quarter collapses also mentioned upthread. I don't doubt his ability to lead by example, but can he inspire confidence when the French/Irish/SA/Scots are hammering your line, or you're 2 points behind with 3 minutes to go? Is the recent Sarries visit to Thomond an example of a team that would have closed out the game a few years ago? Is he the leader that England needs?

Who knows?

But the captaincy didn't do Farrell any favours and while George was better liaising with refs and the media I don't think it did much for his personal form either, although age may have been a factor there.

On field is one thing but off it Itoje will now have all kinds of extra stuff on his plate that will distract him from preparing for his personal game - media, sponsors, squad dynamics, spreadsheet analysis…..

But it's nuts when you think about it. George didn't captain his club and nor has Itoje until he's got into his 30s. Some people have more of an aptitude for captaincy than others but like any skill it needs polishing through experience. I can definitely see why Jones rated Hartley so highly.

 

[LardFingers]

Talking about Hartley - did he usually do the whole 80 minutes?

 

[Jimbo]

Who knows?

But the captaincy didn't do Farrell any favours and while George was better liaising with refs and the media I don't think it did much for his personal form either, although age may have been a factor there.

On field is one thing but off it Itoje will now have all kinds of extra stuff on his plate that will distract him from preparing for his personal game - media, sponsors, squad dynamics, spreadsheet analysis…..

But it's nuts when you think about it. George didn't captain his club and nor has Itoje until he's got into his 30s. Some people have more of an aptitude for captaincy than others but like any skill it needs polishing through experience. I can definitely see why Jones rated Hartley so highly.

Obviously different but Itoje did captain England at age group, that counts for something.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Talking about Hartley - did he usually do the whole 80 minutes?

In the 2016 GS year he made it to around the 70 min mark each time.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Obviously different but Itoje did captain England at age group, that counts for something.

Not really. Choosing your best player as captain is kind of what happens at junior levels.

That's also a decade ago…..McCall's pretty ruthless - I'm sure if he'd had thought he was outstanding captaincy material he'd have long since made it happen.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I really don't know about Dan, feel like SB could bring someone else into that 3rd hooker spot.


Edit: completely forgot he got given a central contract, how on earth has that happened

Probably one of those given because moving to France was something that was keen to be avoided.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

They weren't very good in certain areas in particular the scrum. If your scrums going backwards then you are going to ship points. I remember all the talk about Ford coming on against NZ but know one in the press or YouTube world seemed to pick up England shipping I believe 3 scrum pens in the last 20 minutes?

Englands problem is the front row. If that gets sorted and with the age of this current team then there could be bright years ahead but if they don't then it doesn't matter who's the coach, who's playing fly half, who in the RFU is getting bonuses or how many players can't be selected because they are playing in France it will continue to be disappointing in terms of results (although I have enjoyed watching the close games even if the results haven't been great)

No scrum no win

 

[McTallshort]

But can he inspire confidence when the French/Irish/SA/Scots are hammering your line, or you're 2 points behind with 3 minutes to go? Is the recent Sarries visit to Thomond an example of a team that would have closed out the game a few years ago? Is he the leader that England needs?

Well what have you seen that would suggest he couldn't?