England Six Nations Squad 2012

[eot345]

well it's difficult to argue using hard scientific evidence about rugby. we even had an argument about that (statistics) in a recent thread. So of course people will generalise and their opinions will be clouded by bias. the benefits you get on this forum, rather than most other places for rugby chat, is that here people actually watch rugby so know a little more about what they're talking about than those who, for example, read Joe Marler's name in the newspaper and decide he's the bee's knees of propping.

I hope thats not aimed at me looking back over the last 16 pages of this thread i seem to have defended him a atleast 3 times, I think Trinder is an exciting option for 13 in the future he offers creativity and pace that Barrit and Turnerhall lack he just seems a little rough round the edges at the moment but given another season in the premiership and i think he'll be right for a place in the england starting 22

 

[Aedaphon]

I hope thats not aimed at me looking back over the last 16 pages of this thread i seem to have defended him a atleast 3 times, I think Trinder is an exciting option for 13 in the future he offers creativity and pace that Barrit and Turnerhall lack he just seems a little rough round the edges at the moment but given another season in the premiership and i think he'll be right for a place in the england starting 22

Trinder is certainly a great prospect but he lacks the destruction/fear of god which Tuilagi brings at 13. I definitely think he needs development though, as we can see at the moment England really lacks a depth in specialists at 13

 

[j'nuh]

If I were the England coach, I'd love in the future to see a Tuilagi-Trinder center partnership. Use Tuilagi to crash over the gainline with Trinder on his shoulder as a decoy/offload recipient. Tuilagi would need more experience at 12 though, and I'm not sure it's worth it given we've got a few 12s and not many 13s, but the versatility in Tuilagi would be helpful.

 

[Peat]

If I were the England coach, I'd love in the future to see a Tuilagi-Trinder center partnership. Use Tuilagi to crash over the gainline with Trinder on his shoulder as a decoy/offload recipient. Tuilagi would need more experience at 12 though, and I'm not sure it's worth it given we've got a few 12s and not many 13s, but the versatility in Tuilagi would be helpful.

Yes to both the idea, and the caveats.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I have a sneaking susspission that Farrell is in the squad to cover 13 as well. It makes sence if you want he in the game but not starting at 10? I watched all the videos on the RFU site and Lancaster keeps talking about a ball playing 12? What does that mean? Is that Farrell who passes or Barritt who smashes? I've not heard that expression before.

On the subject of hodgson starting i'd be ok with it because we are likely to have a new 12,13 & maybe 9 so a young burns/ farrell would implode in that situation. Sticking hodgson in steadys the ship until flood is back. Then once he is back put burns on the bench.


I'd love Farrell to do well at 13, so we would actually have a player who can properly cover 13, 12 & 10. England have needed that for a while. It gives us more options and helps with continuity in slection.

 

[Peat]

When people say ball playing 12 they basically mean a guy who can play fly-half, in that at least he's got the skills to do so. Most ball-playing 12s are fly-halves who didn't develop the decision making skills needed for the position quickly enough.

If we must go down that route, I suppose Farrell is the best option. But, unless he is going to have Barritt display the skills he has but rarely uses in a massive change of role, the best two ballplaying 12s in the Premiership don't play regularly in that position. The best 12s in the Premiership currently are runners. Why pick a style we're not built to use... although considering that Tuilagi is written in at 13, its bloody difficult.

I'd be very surprised if Farrell does well at 13. I think I might have to do some geeking up on him at 13 to form a stronger opinion on this.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I wonder why Lancaster said he wants ball playing 12s and then in his squad picked JTH and Barritt? Neither are ball playing 12 then??? Why not Barkley or 12trees hmmm strange.

 

[Peat]

I wonder why Lancaster said he wants ball playing 12s and then in his squad picked JTH and Barritt? Neither are ball playing 12 then??? Why not Barkley or 12trees hmmm strange.

Your guess is as good as mine (although Barritt has played fly-half and surely has the skills... probably... possibly)

Barkley's injured, Twelvetrees is mad flaky.

I'm honestly beginning to think he should try Alex Goode there...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Has Alex Goode every played 12...ever?

If he's said he wants a ball playing 12 the I imagine he's eyeing up Farrell, with Barritt at 13 until Tuilagi is fit.

 

[Peat]

Has Alex Goode every played 12...ever?

If he's said he wants a ball playing 12 the I imagine he's eyeing up Farrell, with Barritt at 13 until Tuilagi is fit.

Nope!

Yes, I think I'd rather pick a rather lightweight full-back/fly-half at 12 over Farrell/Twelvetrees as a ball playing 12...

edit: I never said it was a good idea although the more I think, the more I see logic...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I dunno, I'm a big fan of Twelvetrees at 12, he's suprisingly quick for his size, and can do crashball and distribution well. Also got a good boot on him.
Farrell is a decent enough 12, probably his best position and I'd rather him there over Goode.

It's a shame that Barritt and Tuilagi are fairly similar as BB is probably the best 12 in the squad, and Tuilagi is the best 13.
Ideally I'd like to see Twelvetrees/Tuilagi or Barritt/...? Trinder?

 

[Peat]

I dunno, I'm a big fan of Twelvetrees at 12, he's suprisingly quick for his size, and can do crashball and distribution well. Also got a good boot on him.
Farrell is a decent enough 12, probably his best position and I'd rather him there over Goode.

It's a shame that Barritt and Tuilagi are fairly similar as BB is probably the best 12 in the squad, and Tuilagi is the best 13.
Ideally I'd like to see Twelvetrees/Tuilagi or Barritt/...? Trinder?

Twelvetrees has everything except for consistency and reliability. If he had those, he'd walk into Leicester and England's starting lineups tomorrow. Instead...

Farrell - I just don't see him committing multiple defenders carrying the ball up. Opposition defenders will be free to just keep drifting on, which rather renders his distribution moot, as it'll be lovely ball into crowded channels. A ball playing 12 needs to be able to draw attention.

I'd pick Barritt/Tuilagi. Not that balanced, but neither's Roberts/Davies, you can get away with it, particularly if you have a really creative wing who comes into the line Williams style, just like JSD... who we didn't pick... besides, Barritt can distribute. I think.

As I said in my edit - I don't think its a good idea, but it genuinely seems better than Farrell or Twelvetrees.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Barritt/Tuilagi will certainly keep defences interested as well, so if they can get the final pass out to Sharples/Strettle then they're away...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I do remeber last season Sarries really played some amazing style rugby (after christmas i think), can any sarries fans remeber who was the 10, 12, 13 axis? You know i did wonder why Alex Goode was called up as a replacement to the EPS? Very strange, i guess they see him as a 10 still?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Presumably because he's a better option for the bench than Brown (I think they'll play Foden v Scotland and Brown v Italy)
Then again he's temporary cover for Flood, who is a flyhalf and unlikely to be on the bench, so who knows, maybe he is seen as a third flyhalf. I hope not, though.

 

[gingergenius]

I do remeber last season Sarries really played some amazing style rugby (after christmas i think), can any sarries fans remeber who was the 10, 12, 13 axis? You know i did wonder why Alex Goode was called up as a replacement to the EPS? Very strange, i guess they see him as a 10 still?

Yup, it was Farrell-Barritt-Wyles.

Goode hasn't played 10 since the beginning of last season. His reading of the game is arguably the best in the premiership, and this makes him very effective from fullback. Personally I don't think he's quick enough to be an international quality fullback, although I could see him as an option at 13, but he'd need gametime there for Sarries first. At 10 and 12 I think his talents are a little wasted because there's too much traffic around.

 

[Peat]

Goode was responsible for a lot of the good in Saracens play coming into the line at first receiver, but didn't really work out at 10. Shame, we're shame of 10s...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Feel it makes me feel a bit better knowing that Farrrell and Barritt were in the mindset of playing expansive rugby at some point. I still don't know if Lancaster will actually have england play an expansive style? Who knows.

Oh just to note on the RFU web site there elite squad shows no ben morgan but Jordon Crane is in there? lol someone better tell Crane that all his time injured has finally got him into the squad...just like it did for Moody!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No Callum Clark on there either.
Considering they're a pretty big organisation you would have thought they'd keep their website (or even just the squad lists) in order.

 

[stus768]

Rob Andrew is involved in the Selection process for the new coach again. Great.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16595520.stm