England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't trust Makos scrummaging enough to see him start

 

[Scotty]

I don't trust Makos scrummaging enough to see him start

Would you have moon? Or genge? And is genge a strong scrummager and is he experience enough to start against the likes of ireland?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Would you have moon? Or genge? And is genge a strong scrummager and is he experience enough to start against the likes of ireland?

Moon took his chance really well, but Genge and Mako are a class above. Agree with Olyy about Mako's scrummaging, always felt he's best from the bench so Genge to start. Not sure how Genge would fare against Furlong, but I think he'd give it a bloody good crack and it's worth finding out. The extra mongrel he'd bring is much needed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Moon took his chance really well, but Genge and Mako are a class above. Agree with Olyy about Mako's scrummaging, always felt he's best from the bench so Genge to start. Not sure how Genge would fare against Furlong, but I think he'd give it a bloody good crack and it's worth finding out. The extra mongrel he'd bring is much needed.

Put far more eloquently than I could.

 

[Clavis Ruo]

There's talk that Eddie Jones' preferred option might involved Te'o and Tuilagi in the centres and Fiji Joe on the wing. Sounds crazy. Would probably mean a lack of subtlety in terms of players such as Ford, Slade and maybe even Daly.
Sounds like Australia 2003 all over again when the more skillful but less powerful guys (Roff, Walker, Gerrard etc) were left out in favour of the more powerful types.

 

[MarkyH]

I genuinely believe a mix is key for this England team. We don't have a serious 12. We have a lot of pace out wide that we need to utilise. We also need someone to carry in the backs, or at least threaten to carry so they can draw the defence.

10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi
14. Daly
15. Watson

I know Farrell is great at 10, I'm not debating that, but he's also our best option at 12. Ford is a proven international 10 despite the hatred from some quarters, he's a great passer and the amount of scores he's had direct involvement in is huge.

Bringing Tuilagi into the line will give Ford more space to operate as he won't be targeted as much as defences will worry more about Farrell being first receiver, or Tuilagi getting a run on. Hopefully Watson is fit to play 15 (if not it has to be Brown). Daly can go on the wing, looks better there than full back.

 

[Scotty]

I genuinely believe a mix is key for this England team. We don't have a serious 12. We have a lot of pace out wide that we need to utilise. We also need someone to carry in the backs, or at least threaten to carry so they can draw the defence.

10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi
14. Daly
15. Watson

I know Farrell is great at 10, I'm not debating that, but he's also our best option at 12. Ford is a proven international 10 despite the hatred from some quarters, he's a great passer and the amount of scores he's had direct involvement in is huge.

Bringing Tuilagi into the line will give Ford more space to operate as he won't be targeted as much as defences will worry more about Farrell being first receiver, or Tuilagi getting a run on. Hopefully Watson is fit to play 15 (if not it has to be Brown). Daly can go on the wing, looks better there than full back.

If Big joe is fit for 6N(not sure if he will be or not) would you have daly FB and joe on the wing or briwn FB and daly on the wing?

I like the idea of tuilagi 13, big joe 14 make yards and can break tackles, and players cant bite in on manu because of the threat of Joe and vice versa

 

[TRF_Olyy]

May, Joe, Brown

Daly on the bench. His performances, for club and country, this season don't warrant a starting shirt.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Tuilagi won't be fit so there's no point in basing a back line on him. Farrell is the best 10 we have so we need to focus on finding a 12 that works. I really hope Jones brings more than just T'eo to the squad so we can try and get a centre partnership sorted.

I'd rather have the sarries 10-13 than nothing because at least they know each other and work together. Whatever partnership we produce won't have had any time together again and probably will get changed around.

9. Robson
10. Farrell
12. Loz
13. Daly
11. May
14. Coz
15. Watson

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like how you say Manu won't be fit and then include Watson

 

[Scotty]

If your using watson where does JJ stand? Pushing slade off the bench?

 

[TheSaffycen]

9.Robson 10.Cipriani
12.Farrell 13.Tuilagi
11.May 14.Cok 15.Brown
21.Spencer 22.Loz 23.Daly

Wouldn't happen and probably very flawed but I would like to see it, maybe Nowell should be in there somewhere.

 

[MarkyH]

Manu more fit than Te'o

Has played regularly since the end of last season. Seems to be fit and his body is used to playing now...

 

[MarkyH]

If Big joe is fit for 6N(not sure if he will be or not) would you have daly FB and joe on the wing or briwn FB and daly on the wing?

I like the idea of tuilagi 13, big joe 14 make yards and can break tackles, and players cant bite in on manu because of the threat of Joe and vice versa

I'd not play Daly at FB.

My team is a more if all fit and and playing ok back line. I'd definitely have big Joe round the team and coming in for Daly if his poor form continues. If Watson comes back ok he would be my first choice FB but even he wasn't that convincing there last year. Brown is dependable, so no problem having him at 15.

I think the important thing is Ford - Farrell - Tuilagi. That opens up so much space and pace hopefully and is probably our most balanced midfield

 

[MarkyH]

If your using watson where does JJ stand? Pushing slade off the bench?

I'd have JJ replace Slade, form dependent really. But a firing JJ is great to have, either in the team or bench. Ford - Farrell - Joseph have performed really well before, but I think Tuilagi at 13 gives us a better balance.

 

[curtbob7]

Would you have moon? Or genge? And is genge a strong scrummager and is he experience enough to start against the likes of ireland?

Is Genge a strong scrummager? Sorry, what?

Sidenote: Has WillGriff John decided who he'd like to play for?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think he got captured by Wales u20s
Regardless, and as much as I love him, he's not international standard.
Massive work rate and great in the tight but his scrummaging is good enough for the prem but not really any higher.

 

[curtbob7]

Think he got captured by Wales u20s
Regardless, and as much as I love him, he's not international standard.
Massive work rate and great in the tight but his scrummaging is good enough for the prem but not really any higher.

Ahh nice. Capped by Welsh, raised and taught in England???...surprised he hasn't been called up to the Scottish squad..

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Well yes, it's not a selection for brick walls granted, but.....

Wilson's pretty much bang on for a normal no8. He's 1.91 and 112. Reed's 1.93 and 111. Parisse's a little taller but also 112.

Both Currys are listed at 102. Not heavy, but for comparison Cane's 103 and Savea's only 100. So we're prob really only losing a little on the blind side and while Shields was OKish in the autumn he was nothing special and his Pests form looks pretty anonymous. Would trade a bit of pace and skill for a few kilos if he's the alternative.

The Irish back row we faced in the 6N last year was Leavy, O'Mahony and Stander - 107, 107 & 114. So that would only be a combined 14kg heavier. It's a difference, but not massive.

Unless Binny proves he's really firing in the next couple of weeks I think he'd be most effective for a half hour blast against tired legs.

I'd have rolled over more easily if you'd have argued on experience grounds.

I don't think the combined back row height/weight is the key thing. For me, it's about having enough players who can effectively carry into set defenses and return quick ball. Usually the best way to do that is to break the gain line. Similarly in defense, it is to prevent the opposition from getting quick ball when you have a set defense.

Defensively, I think it is much less dependent on size and more dependent on technique, mentality and speed; Curry, Curry & Underhill are some of the best going when it comes to making hits behind the gain line and preventing quick ball.

In attack, size - particularly weight/BMI - do seem to come into play somewhat more. BMI is actually the better measure for me as it rules out some particularly tall, heavy players who are actually quite ineffectual carriers due to their high center of gravity and it accounts for some shorter, bowling-ball type carriers like Steffon Armitage, who aren't massively heavy but are a nightmare to try and stop.

I know this is only crucially important for phases where the defense has had a chance to set, or in games where conditions are not conducive to quick rucks and expansive play. However, to be a truly successful international or club side, I think you need a minimum number of players, ~4 across a XV, who can effectively generate quick ball from slow ball, and those players tend to have a BMI of 31+.

Note: The BMI metric only really works if applied alongside an eye test of physique (or maybe body fat %), otherwise it overly favours Props who, as we all know, rarely do anything other than push...(exc. Sinkler, Genge, Mako & Dan Cole).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Cole best tighthead in the world by miles!!!!

Don't @ me.