England England England. What have you made of their performances?

[bentruman]

England vs Australia article:

http://sportingfixture.co/2015/10/04/rwc-2015-australia-show-their-class/

 

[Five Meters Out]

English performances?
Great loved them. Especially Sammy Burgess, that specialist 2nd Five. It's such an easy position to play. You can pick it up in five minutes, especially if you have no genuine pace and experience coming from the front row in League.
Fullback Brown and his TV interviews. 10 out of 10. I was begging for them to wheel him out again following the Aus game, so the interviewer could ask him about his one on one tackle v Foley. That would have raised surliness to new levels.

 

[Maverick1987]

English performances?
Great loved them. Especially Sammy Burgess, that specialist 2nd Five. It's such an easy position to play. You can pick it up in five minutes, especially if you have no genuine pace and experience coming from the front row in League.
Fullback Brown and his TV interviews. 10 out of 10. I was begging for them to wheel him out again following the Aus game, so the interviewer could ask him about his one on one tackle v Foley. That would have raised surliness to new levels.

That tackle vs Foley wasn't his fault . It was great play by Australia and defrauded mistakes from Launchbury and Youngs . What's wrong with having a bit of passion these days ???? The usual pre planned interviews are so boring . I wish more people interviewed like brown. Certainly got you guys talking . It's the only interview everyone is talking about ....

 

[valley commando]

Nothing more than I expected if we go back to the 6 nations game after Wales got beaten by England, I was ridiculed on this forum for stating Gats was more concerned with the WC and was using the 6 nations as a build up to the WC.
I think we can see the difference between a 1st class coach in my opinion the best current International coach in Gats and a very average coach in Lancaster, further more the rest of the coaching staff in the Welsh setup have proved superior to their counterparts in England.
Both coaches have had 4 years to build up to this, England with a much bigger player base and budget, I think it proves that with the right people in place you can do great things. In conclusion England have to look abroad for a coach, Eddie Jones would be perfect for you, although the RFU suits will probably look for a yes man again, they also need to pick their best players regardless of who they play for, along with Lancaster they need to ditch Catt, Farrell and Andrew along with several of the squad, Haskell and Robshaw being foremost and start planning now for the Japan not 6 months before the comp starts.

 

[Maverick1987]

Nothing more than I expected if we go back to the 6 nations game after Wales got beaten by England, I was ridiculed on this forum for stating Gats was more concerned with the WC and was using the 6 nations as a build up to the WC.
I think we can see the difference between a 1st class coach in my opinion the best current International coach in Gats and a very average coach in Lancaster, further more the rest of the coaching staff in the Welsh setup have proved superior to their counterparts in England.
Both coaches have had 4 years to build up to this, England with a much bigger player base and budget, I think it proves that with the right people in place you can do great things. In conclusion England have to look abroad for a coach, Eddie Jones would be perfect for you, although the RFU suits will probably look for a yes man again, they also need to pick their best players regardless of who they play for, along with Lancaster they need to ditch Catt, Farrell and Andrew along with several of the squad, Haskell and Robshaw being foremost and start planning now for the Japan not 6 months before the comp starts.

I like everything you said except I think Robshaw could stay if the new coach wanted him to but MUST play 6 or nothing . We don't agree over the non picking of France based players we will have to agree to disagree . I think if you look back to Wales in 2007 they were knocked out in the group stages picked themselves up hired a world class coach and haven't looked back since . England need to do exactly the same but remove Rob Andrew at the same time ....

 

[j'nuh]

Nothing more than I expected if we go back to the 6 nations game after Wales got beaten by England, I was ridiculed on this forum for stating Gats was more concerned with the WC and was using the 6 nations as a build up to the WC.
I think we can see the difference between a 1st class coach in my opinion the best current International coach in Gats and a very average coach in Lancaster, further more the rest of the coaching staff in the Welsh setup have proved superior to their counterparts in England.
Both coaches have had 4 years to build up to this, England with a much bigger player base and budget, I think it proves that with the right people in place you can do great things. In conclusion England have to look abroad for a coach, Eddie Jones would be perfect for you, although the RFU suits will probably look for a yes man again, they also need to pick their best players regardless of who they play for, along with Lancaster they need to ditch Catt, Farrell and Andrew along with several of the squad, Haskell and Robshaw being foremost and start planning now for the Japan not 6 months before the comp starts.

I think Wales have been arguably the most consistent of the NH sides of the last 8 years, and for that Gatland deserves some praise.

However, in 8 years, Gatland has failed to make Wales properly competitive against the SH sides. Wales have been consistently clearly below the top tier. I don't see how anyone can call him a top coach without being able to take that next step and creating a top team. Unless you argue that he doesn't have the players at his disposal to create a top team, which I completely disagree with.

Also, England, Ireland and France have had their own problems over the last 8 years. After installing Schmidt, you can make the case that Ireland have gone ahead of Wales. If England and France have similar transformations, then unless Gatland has another level that he's hiding, then Wales can find themselves slipping down the rankings quite fast.

 

[rob39]

Nothing more than I expected if we go back to the 6 nations game after Wales got beaten by England, I was ridiculed on this forum for stating Gats was more concerned with the WC and was using the 6 nations as a build up to the WC.
I think we can see the difference between a 1st class coach in my opinion the best current International coach in Gats and a very average coach in Lancaster, further more the rest of the coaching staff in the Welsh setup have proved superior to their counterparts in England.
Both coaches have had 4 years to build up to this, England with a much bigger player base and budget, I think it proves that with the right people in place you can do great things. In conclusion England have to look abroad for a coach, Eddie Jones would be perfect for you, although the RFU suits will probably look for a yes man again, they also need to pick their best players regardless of who they play for, along with Lancaster they need to ditch Catt, Farrell and Andrew along with several of the squad, Haskell and Robshaw being foremost and start planning now for the Japan not 6 months before the comp starts.

Agree totally, we are a young squad caps wise and will learn from this. Wales, France, Ireland have all been in similar situations in the past and sorted themselves out, its now Englands turn.

 

[Colombia]

I think Wales have been arguably the most consistent of the NH sides of the last 8 years, and for that Gatland deserves some praise.

However, in 8 years, Gatland has failed to make Wales properly competitive against the SH sides. Wales have been consistently clearly below the top tier. I don't see how anyone can call him a top coach without being able to take that next step and creating a top team. Unless you argue that he doesn't have the players at his disposal to create a top team, which I completely disagree with.

It's just Australia to be fair. They've been competitive with South Africa for a while and New Zealand have been above everyone in that time period.

Also, England, Ireland and France have had their own problems over the last 8 years. After installing Schmidt, you can make the case that Ireland have gone ahead of Wales. If England and France have similar transformations, then unless Gatland has another level that he's hiding, then Wales can find themselves slipping down the rankings quite fast.

Ireland have a better national set-up than Wales in terms of their central contracts and provincial control. Wales are perennially battling an injury crisis.

 

[Manti]

England will come good, very unlucky and I'm sure they will add to the Lions as they always do...

 

[Tafftog]

England will come good, very unlucky and I'm sure they will add to the Lions as they always do...

As water boys maybe?

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

England were simply phenomenal. A masterclass.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Sam Burgess is the future for England.
Brad Barritt must go.
Andy Farrell must go.
Rowntree and Catt must go.
Rob Andrew just go.
Lancaster should already be gone.

I forbid England to get a Kiwi coach.

 

[Mumbles119]

Sam Burgess is the future for England.
Brad Barritt must go.
Andy Farrell must go.
Rowntree and Catt must go.
Rob Andrew just go.
Lancaster should already be gone.

I forbid England to get a Kiwi coach.

Dave Rennie would be lovely, thank you

 

[Ospreylian]

It's just Australia to be fair. They've been competitive with South Africa for a while and New Zealand have been above everyone in that time period.
.

It's not even that they haven't been competitive with Australia, every time they have played them in recent years the margins have been very slim, say 2-5 points apart. Sometimes luck has played a part, sometimes Australia have been more clinical in the final 10 minutes. The only thing that separates the two sides at the moment in my eyes is Australia's ability to close tight games out even if they are under huge pressure. But again, it's not as if Wales struggle to be competitive with them. It's just New Zealand that Wales really struggle to get a foothold against, but same for every other nation isn't it.

Also, I will defend Gatland on his southern hemisphere record. As I pointed out above, a lot of the games have ended with very close results over Gatland's coaching career, something Wales have not achieved consistently for a long time under other coaches. Let's take a look at the last 8 games between each of the 3 SH teams.

vs South Africa:

Win 12-6
Loss 31-30
Loss 38-16
Loss 15-24
Loss 17-16
Loss 25-29
Loss 31-34
Loss 15-20

vs Australia:

Loss 15-6
Loss 28-33
Loss 26-30
Loss 12-14
Loss 20-19
Loss 25-23
Loss 27-19
Loss 18-24

vs New Zealand:

Loss 16-34
Loss 10-33
Loss 25-37
Loss 29-10
Loss 42-9
Loss 12-19
Loss 9-29


So against Australia, Wales have come within 5 points of them 5 times over the last 8 matches. Against South Africa, it is also 5 times out of 8. It's best not to look at New Zealand, the closest Wales have come in recent times is within 7 points. But still, it shows that Wales have improved vastly under Gatland from say, 2004 when we were smashed 53-18 by South Africa, or 2007 when we were beaten 31-0 by Australia on tour. I just don't buy into this whole "Gatland can't compete with the southern hemisphere" stuff. Wales are getting there and showing far more consistency in the process than they have under previous coaches.

 

[valley commando]

Never mind Boris, you'd probably still get in England's team

Boris Johnson tackled by a 10 yr old Japanese lad

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Watched the video he broke the gain line brilliantly.

Tackler to high head wrong side.. Needs practice.

This along with the tackle he did on that German and he is like a better Brad Barritt.

 

[valley commando]

Watched the video he broke the gain line brilliantly.

Tackler to high head wrong side.. Needs practice.

This along with the tackle he did on that German and he is like a better Brad Barritt.

Would he last the 80 though ?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would he last the 80 though ?

Maybe a power sub player like Burgess with his frame could play forwards and in the backs.

 

[mdaclarke]

It's not even that they haven't been competitive with Australia, every time they have played them in recent years the margins have been very slim, say 2-5 points apart. Sometimes luck has played a part, sometimes Australia have been more clinical in the final 10 minutes. The only thing that separates the two sides at the moment in my eyes is Australia's ability to close tight games out even if they are under huge pressure. But again, it's not as if Wales struggle to be competitive with them. It's just New Zealand that Wales really struggle to get a foothold against, but same for every other nation isn't it.

Also, I will defend Gatland on his southern hemisphere record. As I pointed out above, a lot of the games have ended with very close results over Gatland's coaching career, something Wales have not achieved consistently for a long time under other coaches. Let's take a look at the last 8 games between each of the 3 SH teams.

vs South Africa:

Win 12-6
Loss 31-30
Loss 38-16
Loss 15-24
Loss 17-16
Loss 25-29
Loss 31-34
Loss 15-20

vs Australia:

Loss 15-6
Loss 28-33
Loss 26-30
Loss 12-14
Loss 20-19
Loss 25-23
Loss 27-19
Loss 18-24

vs New Zealand:

Loss 16-34
Loss 10-33
Loss 25-37
Loss 29-10
Loss 42-9
Loss 12-19
Loss 9-29


So against Australia, Wales have come within 5 points of them 5 times over the last 8 matches. Against South Africa, it is also 5 times out of 8. It's best not to look at New Zealand, the closest Wales have come in recent times is within 7 points. But still, it shows that Wales have improved vastly under Gatland from say, 2004 when we were smashed 53-18 by South Africa, or 2007 when we were beaten 31-0 by Australia on tour. I just don't buy into this whole "Gatland can't compete with the southern hemisphere" stuff. Wales are getting there and showing far more consistency in the process than they have under previous coaches.

Not a lot of wins there. Hopefully this weekend will end with a Wales win

 

[The Jones Boy]

Look, England are a good side, they just needed a more experienced coaching team and more leaders on the field who would have opted for the kick and then regardless of the loss to Aussie they would have been playing the Bokke this weekend.
The bulk of the England squad makes a fine team, plenty of athletes in there, they are just a bit young, nothing to worry about and plenty to build on but they need a sniffer and they need to play Burgess a LOT but not sat next to Brad Barritt.