England and league - noob questions

[Big Ewis]

hey fellas,
I'm sorry for asking for you to do all the work, but if at least one of you could explain some of the following:
I know Australia for example have always been great at league, it's in their culture, they love any sport where there's grass and running etc..

But a nation like England, it's a bit strange to me because I work with clichés right now, like, England wouldn't be interested in such a sport where there's free running, and the athleticism is so demanding, and Rugby Union fits England so much more I'd have imagined English kids and athletes would only worry about Union.
Obviously I'm very wrong, I just had a look at the rankings, England is 3rd and way ahead of the 4th best (also a big surprise, France, I thought they were meh at league).
So here's my question: as old as the sport is, has England always been really good at it ? Is it respected a lot in England, or is it sort of looked down upon by the vast majority Union guys ? It must be developed a lot...any anecdotes, facts, wtvr about League in your everyday lives you think would be relevant here ? Anything at all if you'd be nice enough to share.
Many thanks.

 

[ratsapprentice]

League is an English sport, man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_league_in_England

 

[Saints1]

England have won World Cups in the past, but Australia and New Zealand continue to produce far better athletes and have more funding. Until the disparity changes, there's going to be no change to that. People think England can beat New Zealand next week and Australia in the final.

I don't. They are simply better than England.

 

[Big Ewis]

England have won World Cups in the past, but Australia and New Zealand continue to produce far better athletes and have more funding. Until the disparity changes, there's going to be no change to that. People think England can beat New Zealand next week and Australia in the final.

I don't. They are simply better than England.

League is an English sport, man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_league_in_England

yeah yeah, I know...and like I said, I know it's very old too. In my mind though, the sport was probably very unspectacular back in the day, until very late. The kind of League I watch highlights of nowadays, Australia, NZ, England too are quite a spectacle athleticism wise.

I was wondering just how popular it was in England, how ppl respond to it, how many ppl know about it, what profile, that sort of thing...

I just meant in the general impression I get of English sports, I wouldn't have imagined England to be a great side nowadays, whether they invented it or not a century ago, seeing how the sport seems to be all super athletes - in the image of their Rugby Union style. Aus and NZ still are highly running-styled Union nations, England isn't.

I'd have imagined the likes of NZ, AUS, Sam, FIJ and possibly African sides, those highly athletic peoples/nations would have invaded the sport and left none for Europeans, England included.

 

[Saints1]

It's not at the forefront of the English sporting public unfortunately. A small fish in a big pond patrolled by football.

 

[Big Ewis]

Basically it's considered a minor sport in the UK and is always last in any sports news or media coverage.

yeh thanks. I would imagine...but it's still a lot more prevalent than I'd have expected at first. Just the other day here in Qatar I went to a very English house party and some dude was from a very League-oriented place in England. I believe his town started with the letter 'W', and he said it was very very League over there...
so I mean, it's still fairly well known. I thought it was really rare.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I wouldn't listen to ebt, although he is a good example of one of those idiots that feels he has to hate the other code.
He is an anti-league troll.

No, League isn't as popular as Union, but it's not a minor sport in the same way that something like... I, dunno... squash is.
It's still the most popular team sport after Football, Cricket and Union.

Look at the "popularity" section about halfway down, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[ratsapprentice]

And ahead of boxing and golf.

 

[j'nuh]

If ever there was a good example of a sport as a regional game, rugby league would be it.

Here's a map of where all of the Super League (the top English division) teams are located, minus the Catalan team:

(http://www.loverugbyleague.com/blog...ouldn--t-start-and-end-with-super-league.html)

If you add the second division, the Championship, you have 25 English teams (12 from Super League, 13 from Championship): one of which is based in London, and the other 24 north of Nottingham. Even the Welsh team is based in the North of Wales.

By contrast, rugby union also has hotbeds, but is much more spread out (this map is a little outdated though):

 

[LittleGuy]

To add to j'nuh's post the London Club is in pretty dire straights at the moment as well. I like Super League but there is no doubting that is a regional game with only a niche TV audience outside of it's core region.

 

[Big Ewis]

Your "W" was probably Warrington or Widnes, both league strongholds. Depending in where you reside, league can be rare, especially in the South where there is one team, and they are pretty awful.

You may judge for yourself, with it being halfway down the "popularity" list, even below snooker.

Warrington, that's the one ! And below snooker lol ?...ok.

Thanks j'nuh for your post.
Thanks guys in general, interesting to get info from actual ppl rather than just cold old documents online.
Except you LittleGuy, I'm very disappointed in that post of yours !!!

 

[LittleGuy]

Warrington, that's the one ! And below snooker lol ?...ok.

Thanks j'nuh for your post.
Thanks guys in general, interesting to get info from actual ppl rather than just cold old documents online.
Except you LittleGuy, I'm very disappointed in that post of yours !!!

Loads of WOE!!!

 

[London_Italian]

Is League genuinely growing...not just in England, but around the world? I mean there is barely any mention of it outside of the north of England and in Oz/Nz. However, when you put in something like "French rugby growth" into the internet it's all about League. Would be very interested to see a comparison between League and Union playing numbers in each country

 

[Saints1]

Rugby League is definitely growing in the South of France. This isn't been reflected in the quality of the national side yet but there are signs league in France is well set for the significant future.

 

[RoosTah]

Rugby League is definitely growing in the South of France. This isn't been reflected in the quality of the national side yet but there are signs league in France is well set for the significant future.

I hope so. The French bring something pretty distinct to Union, and it would be good to see them capable of mixing it with the big 3. I personally would also love to see League better developed in the UK in general. If the English had genuine gruelling grudge matches agains the Irish, Welsh and Scots then they'd be a lot better for it as a team and would be more competitive with Australia. It would also make a Rugby League Lions series a genuinely interesting proposition.

Sadly, before that happens English Rugby League needs to extend its reach beyond the north in England and make a fist of becoming more genuinely national (I know in Australia sport is pretty regional, but it's a big bloody place, so you can kind of understand how different sports germinated across its landscape).

As to the question initially posted by Big Ewis, I kind of get in the impression you're taking the ****...

Surely you must know that there's only really 3 top tier Rugby League nations, so being ranked 3rd isn't particularly impressive...

 

[Saints1]

Sadly, before that happens English Rugby League needs to extend its reach beyond the north in England and make a fist of becoming more genuinely national (I know in Australia sport is pretty regional, but it's a big bloody place, so you can kind of understand how different sports germinated across its landscape).

I get what you're saying but I think the opposite.

The sport is on its backside in the places where it is usually thriving. Too much emphasis has been placed on failed expansions such as London (who have failed dismally) and Crusaders (who no longer exist) and the traditional teams have been forgotten. Bradford Bulls, 4 time Super League winners and 3 times world club champions are on the verge of going bust. Salford nearly did last year until they won the lottery and got bought by a rich fool. Wakefield had to sell some of their players just a few months ago.

Too many dissatisfied fans, and I include myself in that. Taking away promotion and relegation was the worst thing they could have done. It is at the core of English sport and rugby league has suffered for it.

 

[Big Ewis]

well at least England is IN the Top 3. France and Wales and co. aren't even Top 3...
at this point, what is it ?
Why is England much better than the rest in Europe ? Coaching, tactics, or under-developed players for France and co. ?

 

[ratsapprentice]

We are the only country with a significant league and fan-base.

 

[Big Ewis]

right.
It's still a little strange to me...I know England invented the sport and all but...I would imagine these days it wouldn't be big there. I guess England really is very divided and regions/areas really are very different.

In France there aren't as many differences I'd imagine (sports wise). Southwest is Rugby, and its whereabouts, no doubt. But then the common denominator is just football throughout.

They say there are about 4x more licensed football players than Rugby Union for instance...

I remember also reading (slightly off topic !) that the difference between 'regular' and 'high level' was huge in Rugby and that a lot of kids who play just drop the sport eventually and move on in life because the sport is so demanding these days and authorities want bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic guys and more entertaining and spectacular sequences of play, so it's almost inaccessible compared to football. "At Rugby, everybody cannot play everybody, contrary to football", some coach was saying.

So yeah I'm pretty sure, more globally, England has more fans of Union than France as a whole. I still think of England as the "land of Rugby" nowadays, and the fact they're even good at League, U20, women's and everything Rugby related it seems testifies of that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We are the only country with a significant league and fan-base.

Got it in one.




As TRF_Saints says, though, it's growing very quickly in France, specifically the south east. They have their own domestic league(s), and a decent Super League side. Most of the Elite One sides are in the south east (or just south in general), and then Elite Two they're spread out a bit more.
I'd say league is as popular, if not getting more so, than Union in the South East. Whenever I go to my parents house down there, if you're in Perpignan itself they're all about USAP, but as soon as you get outside of the city, and into the towns/villages in the region, you only ever see Catalans Dragons.