England A vs Australia A - 17/11/24

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Dingwall was playing for anyone else he wouldn't be getting the hype. His mains praise was he isn't as attack minded as the rest of the saints backs on the whole.

Even in terms of centres at saints I would have Hutchinson and Burger ahead of him really.

Imo Slade is a genuine lynchpin for Exeter, but tbh I agree that Marchant is and was our best 13 option anyway.


Dingwall isn't a 12 and imo Atkinson and Ojomoh have more promise

When we have all our centres fit it's Dingwall at 12 and Burger at 13. Dingwall is a brilliant rugby player, leads the defence and is a good distributor and good at taking the ball up, has a good step and in general is a good all round player.

If he played for another county he'd be in the squads all the time as a back up player. For some unknown reason England only want someone who has an X factor in some vain and yet also seem to not pick players who could get the job done.

Agree Atkinson has more promise, but right now Dingwall is a better player. Dingwall should be starting for England at 12 and not in the A team. Atkinson should be there for the A game 100%.

 

[BPM]

I'm agree Dingwall isn't a 12. He is a solid, all round 13. I see him a bit like Chris Harris - albeit with a bit more bias towards attack rather than defence and Harris was a Lions tourist.

I'd also like to have looked at Seb Atkinson. The fact that he can't even make the A squad baffles me. Ojomoh's biggest problem is getting in to the Bath side. He's got a bit of everything but at present he isn't good enough to consign Redpath (AKA the one that got away) to the bench on a regular basis and Butt's form has only added to that challenge. I'm hoping Olly Hartley comes back in good nick as I see him as a better bet than Ojomoh with a much better chance of regular starts.

I did notice that Charlie Griffin (also now at Bath) got invited to train with the A squad. He's not going to be ready for a few years yet, but he's a natural 12 who looks like he has all the goods. Same log jam challenge at Bath but he's only 18 so has got plenty of time on his side.

Here he is:

 

[jordiev]

I dont see the Ojomoh hype tbh, cannot get a game and whenever I see him I see why, he is just a level below, maybe he needs a move to actually get a run and develop but he is 24 now and cant help but feel his name is always brought up because early promise and name value, kind of like why quirke is endlessly brought up in 9 discussions in the media.

Atkinson looks interesting, I do agree that olly Hartley looks best and most realistic in shorter term, but then not sure how he fits with Lawrence. Domestic clubs struggling to provide an answer and even England A dont seems interesting in finding the next up and comer to develop sticking with Dingwall who is solid but not much more. Maybe we should just go with Dingwall but him vs slade is very chalky for me.

Lennox would have been my pick, but looks like he is gone to France now.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We got 12's coming up just fine I feel.


Even Woodward seems ready to step up as Kelly replacement if he does to Ireland.
Lawrence at 12 for me was better than Dingwall at least.

 

[Rinkadink]

I like both Langdon and Oghre, but I really worry they dont have the size to scrum at international level.

Langdon is 6' and 107kg
Oghre is 5'9 and 103kg

For comparison
George is 5'10 and 110kg
Dan is 5'11 and 105kg

Bonus
Marchand is 5'11 and 108kg

I'd say they will be fine in that respect and only look lighter when compared to the likes of the heavier fellas like Marx or Mauvaka. Some legends like Brits were quite a bit shorter or lighter.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

14:00, 17/11/24
On Premier Sports for some reason



England A side to face Australia A
15. Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)
14. Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
13. Oscar Beard (Harlequins)
12. Fraser Dingwall (c) (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
11. Gabriel Ibitoye (Bristol Bears)
10. Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby)
9. Will Porter (Harlequins)
1. Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)
2. Gabriel Oghre (Bristol Bears)
3. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 7 caps)
4. Hugh Tizard (Saracens)
5. Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)
6. Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
7. Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)
8. Tom Willis (Saracens, 1 cap)

Replacements
16. Curtis Langdon (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
17. Emmanuel Iyogun (Northampton Saints)
18. Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby)
19. Rusi Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)
20. Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)
21. Archie McParland (Northampton Saints)
22. Jamie Shillcock (Leicester Tigers)
23. Will Muir (Bath Rugby)


Like the side, in general - don't like Asher at 1 but whatever, it's inevitable now
Shame we've not taken the opportunity to have a look at a 12, but again: inevitable as soon as the captaincy got doled out
Personally would've started Langdon, but i've warmed to Oghre a lot this year, he's improved immeasurably

Don't understand why Finn Smith hasn't dropped down into the side

Thats a very good side. I think it could give the England first 15 a good game.

 

[jordiev]

Langdon is 6' and 107kg
Oghre is 5'9 and 103kg

For comparison
George is 5'10 and 110kg
Dan is 5'11 and 105kg

Bonus
Marchand is 5'11 and 108kg

I'd say they will be fine in that respect and only look lighter when compared to the likes of the heavier fellas like Marx or Mauvaka.

I think the last point is the main one I am getting at, hooker should be in my opinion about line out and scrum first, especially since our props are hardly lights out.

Does this mean I dont want to see them? No, especially Langdon, considering George and dan are hardly killing it and we dont have a hooker who is a scrum animal. But it is kind of an issue to be aware of for me. Australia's scrum struggles with their hooker being light when facing up against NZ and SA for example.

 

[Rinkadink]

If you want a set piece orientated game then perhaps you want giants but I believe we've mostly been banging on about how England should play more expansive rugby to suit the players so we'd probably want more elusive, dynamic and linking hookers?

 

[jordiev]

If you want a set piece orientated game then perhaps you want giants but I believe we've mostly been banging on about how England should play more expansive rugby to suit the players so we'd probably want more elusive, dynamic and linking hookers?

I agree, need to play to suit your best players, and like I said, I want to see them since we dont have any giants in the pool, but you can only play expansive from a solid base and its a losing battle if your scrum is getting folded every week. Tbh, Langdon for sure wouldnt be a drop in the scrum from dan.

Just a point of interest considering Australia and others with lighter hookers get folded, you can get away with lighter less scrum solid hookers if your props are great, ours are not.

Probably not worth thinking about since our scrum is pants regardless of the hooker, but just a point that it doesnt help.