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England 2025/26

BPM said:
I'm kind of bored defending Dingwall when I'd personally have him as 3rd choice behind Atkinson and Ojomoh (possibly slipping back further if Ma'asi-White or Woodward kick on).

However, I think he's been either fine or good in most of his appearances. He was poor at the weekend, but if he hadn't thrown the intercept vs. Australia, I don't think anyone would have picked that game out as a notably poor performance.

Describing the situation with the midfield as 'a mess' is harsh IMO. I think Atkinson would have started had he been fit, but Dingwall's performances in the 6N rightly had him in the box seat to come back into the side ahead of Ojomoh who has been in form but is untested at this level. The alternative is either a third untried combination (Lawrence + Freeman or Slade + Freeman) or return to the Lawrence/Slade combo that has never really worked.

Personally, I think the mistake was accommodating Freeman's desire to play 13. I do think it's a worthwhile experiment but given Lawrence's form, I would have resisted the temptation to do it and played Dingwall and Lawrence for both games to build familiarity.

Now I think it's a case of backing Dingwall for the rest of the Autumn and hoping he steps-up or bring in back Slade. I see a bigger upside in the former, but vs. NZ I can understand why Slade's experience might be preferred.
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I think Dingwall’s been fairly decent for most of the time this series, but he does seem to have one real howler in each game
 
Re Chessum and Freeman, id say Chessum is a bigger loss.

Roebuck is a pretty damn good replacement for Freeman, you dont lose much. But we're struggling with with lock depth as it is.

However apparently Coles went very well v Fiji, so its a good chance to see how he really stands up against the very best. I suspect this will mean CCS on the bench though and Earl at 8..
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Gross, no thanks
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Out of interest - why not? IMO he'd be good for Sarries; and we've "known" he was looking at coming to England, but the Glos deal fell through.

I don't want him for England - but I've not seen anything suggesting that England are interested in him (that may change once he's here - and that would be the time to object). Clubs sign foreign players all the time; I've no more problem with them signing a foreigner with an English mum than one without.

If he comes over and plays well enough, then I'd rather someone like Sotutu with an English parent, than someone like BJVR with no link to the country,, but whom the RFU are actively chasing.
Of course, if the RFU are chasing Sotutu, then the above does not apply, and Ewwww gross
 
Which Tyler said:
Out of interest - why not?
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Nation switching shouldn't be allowed, imo
I would hate to see England doing it (though it's probably inevitable at some point)

It's an England thread, i'm just talking about England - don't care if he signs for Saracens (though I would be annoyed as there were rumours we were looking at him as a replacement for DDP)
 
My apologies - I had completely forgotten that he'd actually been capped.
Completey understand, in that case.

Personally, I have less of an issue with switching than most - though IMO grandparents is too far, 3 years too short, and there should also be a residency requirement (accepting that giving WR jurisdiction on that would set a worrying precedent) - But I'm okay with it, given that that's the price rugby HAS to pay for olympic inclusion (for whom, we were too strict when only allowing switching via 7s).
The options seem to be
A: Current situation
B: No rugby in the olympics
C: Splitting 7s off as an entirely separate sport with separate governing body
 
Which Tyler said:
My apologies - I had completely forgotten that he'd actually been capped.
Completey understand, in that case.

Personally, I have less of an issue with switching than most - though IMO grandparents is too far, 3 years too short, and there should also be a residency requirement (accepting that giving WR jurisdiction on that would set a worrying precedent) - But I'm okay with it, given that that's the price rugby HAS to pay for Olympic inclusion (for whom, we were too strict when only allowing switching via 7s).
The options seem to be
A: Current situation
B: No rugby in the olympics
C: Splitting 7s off as an entirely separate sport with separate governing body
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Either of those are easy...i have no interest in 7s whatsoever :D
 
TRF_Olyy said:
14 times as well, so it's not even like a 3min bench appearance like Isa Nacewa
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Yeah this is my take also

I don’t mind it so much if a young player got capped for like one game and then cast out into the shadows tbh

Like Kelly I kinda have some empathy with.

Sometimes coaches will love bomb you in a way and convince you to play for them only to then find yourself capture after one game v tier 2 opposition and not getting a look out since
 
I agree with the prevailing mood.

But if a player’s eligible and going to improve the team then a head coach has some legitimate questions to answer if they don’t select them. An identifiable risk of upsetting the dressing room would be one justification although I suspect players are a lot more sanguine these days.

Parachuting in players with big reputations seldom works, but if they earn their stripes with a club over a period then while the purist in me doesn’t like that they’ve been capped elsewhere, the pragmatist can probably live with it.

As to whether this guy would improve our 23, it’s probably marginal at best. But it’s the rules to be railed at, not the individual.
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
But it's the rules to be railed at, not the individual.
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Nah, I'll rail at them and the coach - it's a dumb rule and completely de-legitimises international sport

But I've said all this a thousand times over, so :P


Apparently squad out today, so must not be any injury worries - you're either crocked or you ain't, which does make me a little more concerned about the Freeman/Chessum injury rumours
 
In the Times today it says that Borthwick’s has had the opportunity to pick Underhill 14 times and has started him every single one of those (presumably injured or suspended for others).

Does that ring true?

Also goes on to say that he’s likely to start at 7 v the ABs too.

So why on earth doesn’t he have a central contract?? With that value and injury record you’d have thought he’d be first in line to be looked after.
 
It may be true that Borthwick has started Underhill every time he's been selected in one of his squads, but it certainly isn't true that he's selected him every time he's been available. He left him out of the RWC squad when he was available.

On why he doesn't have a contract, my best guess is that with his injury record it's simply more financially sensible to pay him per game, rather than giving him a year long contract when he may not be available for a single game of it. Now, why that logic doesn't also apply to someone with an injury record like T. Curry's, I'm not sure.

Edit: also, wasn't he called up prior to the semi-final and left out of the 23 in favour of Vunipola?
 
Last edited:
Times have run an article yesterday on why he hasn't got a contract. Unfortunately it's pay-walled.

On the reddit summary he has been told why, and what he needs to do in getting one. However he can't discuss it.

Also interestingly his contract with Bath ends this summer.
 

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