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England 2025/26

I’m kind of bored defending Dingwall when I’d personally have him as 3rd choice behind Atkinson and Ojomoh (possibly slipping back further if Ma’asi-White or Woodward kick on).

However, I think he’s been either fine or good in most of his appearances. He was poor at the weekend, but if he hadn’t thrown the intercept vs. Australia, I don’t think anyone would have picked that game out as a notably poor performance.

Describing the situation with the midfield as ‘a mess’ is harsh IMO. I think Atkinson would have started had he been fit, but Dingwall’s performances in the 6N rightly had him in the box seat to come back into the side ahead of Ojomoh who has been in form but is untested at this level. The alternative is either a third untried combination (Lawrence + Freeman or Slade + Freeman) or return to the Lawrence/Slade combo that has never really worked.

Personally, I think the mistake was accommodating Freeman’s desire to play 13. I do think it’s a worthwhile experiment but given Lawrence’s form, I would have resisted the temptation to do it and played Dingwall and Lawrence for both games to build familiarity.

Now I think it’s a case of backing Dingwall for the rest of the Autumn and hoping he steps-up or bring in back Slade. I see a bigger upside in the former, but vs. NZ I can understand why Slade’s experience might be preferred.
 
BPM said:
I'm kind of bored defending Dingwall when I'd personally have him as 3rd choice behind Atkinson and Ojomoh (possibly slipping back further if Ma'asi-White or Woodward kick on).

However, I think he's been either fine or good in most of his appearances. He was poor at the weekend, but if he hadn't thrown the intercept vs. Australia, I don't think anyone would have picked that game out as a notably poor performance.

Describing the situation with the midfield as 'a mess' is harsh IMO. I think Atkinson would have started had he been fit, but Dingwall's performances in the 6N rightly had him in the box seat to come back into the side ahead of Ojomoh who has been in form but is untested at this level. The alternative is either a third untried combination (Lawrence + Freeman or Slade + Freeman) or return to the Lawrence/Slade combo that has never really worked.

Personally, I think the mistake was accommodating Freeman's desire to play 13. I do think it's a worthwhile experiment but given Lawrence's form, I would have resisted the temptation to do it and played Dingwall and Lawrence for both games to build familiarity.

Now I think it's a case of backing Dingwall for the rest of the Autumn and hoping he steps-up or bring in back Slade. I see a bigger upside in the former, but vs. NZ I can understand why Slade's experience might be preferred.
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Slade isn't, nor has he ever excelled at 12, he's a 13.

I do agree let Dingwall build as we learn nothing from Slade. Ojomoh isn't in favour or in the squad.

Give Dingwall the autumn as you said and then we have a solid safe backup who doesn't excell but is reliable. Hopfully Atkinson is back for the 6N, and Ojomoh kicks on by then.

Who else is there without going back to Faz. I only was Lawrence their mid game for injury, or experience if we are winning by alot given we always use a 6/2 he may have to be there in a key game.

Dingwall is the best option right now.
 
Seb Atkinsons injury did throw some spanners in the works for the midfield i think. Such as shame he got injured, would have been brilliant experience for him over these 4 games also.

The difference with him and Dingwall is about 1 stone physically. And i think it has shown...Seb can do the hard yards that a 12 is required to do AND also offer a pivot for a passing attacking game etc. But even he is very much a work in progress.
 
Assuming Mitchell, Freeman at 14 and IFW are nailed on for the ABs.

There are pros and cons of continuing with Dingwall. If he does continue he really has to have F inside him. But I think SB will go Ford with Lawrence and Slade as 12.5s.

15 possibly depends on fitness. If we do have to take a punt on someone then I’d prefer that to be Roebuck. But I can see Daly being parachuted straight back in despite not having played since early July.
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Assuming Mitchell, Freeman at 14 and IFW are nailed on for the ABs.

There are pros and cons of continuing with Dingwall. If he does continue he really has to have F inside him. But I think SB will go Ford with Lawrence and Slade as 12.5s.

15 possibly depends on fitness. If we do have to take a punt on someone then I'd prefer that to be Roebuck. But I can see Daly being parachuted straight back in despite not having played since early July.
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Daly woud be a no brainer, but thats a long time to be out to then be dropped straight back in against the AB's.

Id probably look at 14 Roebuck, with 15 Freeman.
Not sure how much Roebuck has played 15 for Sale, but we know Freeman has at least played a few times there for Saints.

But i cant help thinking it'll be Marcus at 15.
 
Roebuck's literally never played 15, never even covered there during a game because of injury - despite the 4(?) month layoff it should be Daly if Steward is out (though I think Marcus is more likely, with Daly on the bench)
 
A loss at home against that New Zealand team next week would be a serious step back IMO. We should be winning by more than 7 points. Play the opposition and not the Jersey, which is what the Springboks are so good at doing against NZ. Scotland would have beaten them last week had they had a bit of belief. We need to start on the front foot and not let them settle. We should be all over them physically. If we get a lead we can’t sit back which is occasionally the Achilles heel of this team. The ABs still have moments of brilliance in them but I feel like we should be dictating the game for the most part. England by 10.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Roebuck's literally never played 15, never even covered there during a game because of injury - despite the 4(?) month layoff it should be Daly if Steward is out (though I think Marcus is more likely, with Daly on the bench)
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Fair enough, I thought he had. In that case I’d rather see Freeman there. M won’t ever work and Daly’s injury was something like 2nd July - would be madness to throw him straight back in. Half fit Freddie will probably get the gig.
 
My bias - between Atkinson, Ojomoh and Dingwall, I'd have had them... in that order from the start. But that would be refusing to start from where we are.
But Atkinson is injured, and Dingwall has been given first refusal (which may well be down to stuff we can't see - given that he's a vice-captain already!).

He's not impressed me in white, but he's also not been particularly bad, just a bit meh - whilst I still think the other two offer something that Dingwall just can't.

For me, Dingwall keeps the starting shirt for the Autumn, whilst Ojomoh trains with the squad (he's been in throughout, just dropped out in order to play for EngA).
Unless everything managed to click for Dingwall, I'd be lining Ojomoh up to be the starting 12 for the 6N (not sure when Atkinson is due back to rejoin the fight).

Lawrence is our only 13, and should start there.
Back 3 is either IFW, Freeman (15), Roebuck; or IFW, Daly (15), Freeman.
If tough decisions need to be made, then make them, rather than dodging and spoiling a different area of the team by indecision with the back3.



I'd bring Ford back in for NZ, and give Fin another shot for Argentina (yes, yes, I know). Whoever starts at FH, we need either Marcus on the bench, or a proper 5:3 split (ideally both).
If Spencer has to be involved, he needs to start - he's generally been decent when starting, but an absolute handbrake off the bench. We really need a better 2nd choice SH, and for them to be a viable bench option.


Up front, the tight 5 basically picks itself, and I absolutely see the option of only starting one of Genge and Stuart, with the other providing impact later on.
In the backrow, Earl and CCS just don't work well together - they both need someone else to do the bulk of the donkey work, to allow them the energy to make their impacts. Pick any 2 of TCurry, Underhill & Pepper alongside 1 of them, with the other on the bench.

1. Genge, 2. LCD, 3. Heyes
4. Itoje, 5. Chessum
6. Pepper, 8. CCS, 7. TCurry

9. Spencer, 10. Ford
12. Dingwall, 13. Lawrence
11. IFW, 15. Steward/Daly, 14. Freeman

16. George, 17. Baxter, 18. Stuart, 19 Coles, 20. Earl (21. Underhill if we must)
21. Mitchell, 22. MSmith, 23. Roebuck/Arundell (neither if we really have to)
 
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Which Tyler said:
We really need a better 2nd choice SH, and for them to be a viable bench option.
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In hindsight it's weird they didn't drop Raffi down to the A game - he's consistently in EPS squads but has such a small amount of game time under his belt over the past few seasons
 
Blueblackandwhite said:
Nope, I'm not suggesting an international 12 has to be a magical strike runner, but you need enough size / pace to draw in defenders to make space for others and to be an effective defender, on top of being able to play a pass or 2. I'm not expecting Sonny Bill Williams or Ma Nonu but at the top level of a collision sport you've got to have a bit of something as an athelete. Why do you think Seb Atkinson was good on the Argentina tour while Dingwall has looked bad in 4/5 starts for England?
The difference between Fraser Dingwall and Deschamps / Makalele were that the latter were world class, ball-winning terriers who'd have got in any international side, whereas Dingwall at 12 reminds me more of when Glenn Hoddle played Jaime Redknapp at sweeper that time against Switzerland and we lost 3 nil.
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Really missing Atkinson atm.
Think him and Lawrence would be a powerful centre partnership, which in turn would create more openings for IFW etc al coming in off wings.
 
Scotty said:
Slade isn't, nor has he ever excelled at 12, he's a 13.

I do agree let Dingwall build as we learn nothing from Slade. Ojomoh isn't in favour or in the squad.

Give Dingwall the autumn as you said and then we have a solid safe backup who doesn't excell but is reliable. Hopfully Atkinson is back for the 6N, and Ojomoh kicks on by then.

Who else is there without going back to Faz. I only was Lawrence their mid game for injury, or experience if we are winning by alot given we always use a 6/2 he may have to be there in a key game.

Dingwall is the best option right now.
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If you look at Slade's strengths - passing and kicking - he should be a good inside centre. The problem is he doesn't play there for his club.
 
It's a blow. That said I think CCS was starting on the bench anyway. Assuming Underhill is back in. Coles, Itoje, Pepper, Underhill with Earl starting with CCS, Curry and Pollock of the bench is very handy.

Same with Freeman if Roebuck is back in. Although I would assume it would have been IFW dropped out. Roebuck and IFW still excellent options to beat NZ.
 

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