England 2021/22

[Ragey Erasmus]

The amount of hate Farrell gets does annoy me. Okay he might not necessarily deserve to be in the side on current form but he has still put his heart and soul into playing for his country for a decade now. He deserves more respect in my opinion.

I think the issue is less about Farrell himself and more the apparent favouritism when he has gone for a prolonged period of not putting in suitable performances as a player or captain to merit his continued selection.

This is then doubled when Ford has been dropped instead of him despite performing better.

 

[ncurd]

Its very much a case of Farrell has been shite post-RWC yet is seemingly undroppable. We played better without him in Autumn and he's been parachuted back in.

I'll go back to what I've said before the tactics might be to kick but I can't believe anyone is telling him to butcher 3/2 on 1's. He showing a complete lack of instinct and England perform better without him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He gives it his all, in an England shirt, it's just that these days that's not very much

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

In 2016, 2017 and flashes of 2019 he was genuinely very good, bordering on world class. I can't think of a player I've had rather had at inside centre in 2016/7 - Tuilagi and his injury woes excepted.

 

[Wasps92]

Agreed. From what I see, the anger directed at Farrell is mostly his high "tackle"s, his jumping out of the line in defence, and his ******* off the referee.
Anger about Farrell is very different, and is about his selection in the first place, hype etc etc.

I don't see any hatred of Farrell. Difference of opinion =/= hatred.


I don't agree that that's ever been the case; in any calendar year.

Yeah to be fair I don't see stuff like that on here but I've seen some horrendous comments about him on social media although those platforms do tend to bring out the knuckle draggers.

He does however seem to attract a disproportionate amount of ire from certain posters, some of it is probably justified to be fair but I feel like a lot of the time people jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Farrell is clearly a much better rugby player than I ever was, and I'd give my right arm* to have one England cap, as substitute, for 5 minutes. You don't get to be a Lion etc. by being rubbish.

However, where does he get into a backline of Smith-Tuilagi-Slade or Smith-Slade-Marchant? There isn't one position where he is in the top 2 form players or where he's led his side to consistent success since the World Cup.

You clearly can't appoint a captain who isn't sure of his place in the side, and yet...

You also can't base your gameplan on the statistic that says 'kicking the ball away is the action of a winning team' even when you've tried it and lost to the team that runs it back. Farrell at 12 is a huge risk, based on picking exciting outside backs who never get the ball. Interestingly, Ford has been kicking too much for Leicester recently (indeed, even Chessum booted it away against Wasps) and they've looked less dominant because of it.

* Clearly this would further reduce my chances

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Farrell is clearly a much better rugby player than I ever was, and I'd give my right arm* to have one England cap, as substitute, for 5 minutes. You don't get to be a Lion etc. by being rubbish.

However, where does he get into a backline of Smith-Tuilagi-Slade or Smith-Slade-Marchant? There isn't one position where he is in the top 2 form players or where he's led his side to consistent success since the World Cup.

You clearly can't appoint a captain who isn't sure of his place in the side, and yet...

You also can't base your gameplan on the statistic that says 'kicking the ball away is the action of a winning team' even when you've tried it and lost to the team that runs it back. Farrell at 12 is a huge risk, based on picking exciting outside backs who never get the ball. Interestingly, Ford has been kicking too much for Leicester recently (indeed, even Chessum booted it away against Wasps) and they've looked less dominant because of it.

* Clearly this would further reduce my chances

Far be it from me to think I know how coaching and rugby statistics are interpreted but it does smell of someone finding an optimum kicking % that leads to victory and then trying to build a gameplan around hitting that %, to the detriment of more relevant per-game information. Eg a team that has a very strong back 3 who are great in the air but are traditionally weak in the tackle you wouldn't want to keep kicking to yet we've had games where we mindlessly kept kicking, even as it was clear we were losing the kicking battle but winning the carrying battle.

 

[MarkyH]

TBF I'd give my all playing for England, problem is I'd be crap.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Marcus Smith could be brilliant 10 for England, says Eddie Jones

England fly-half Marcus Smith "could be an absolutely brilliant 10", but needs the help of Owen Farrell to "run the game for him", says head coach Eddie Jones.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is the sort of stuff that drives a lot of the negative perception of Farrell.

England fly-half Marcus Smith "could be an absolutely brilliant 10", but needs Owen Farrell's help to "run the game for him", says head coach Eddie Jones.

Funny how Ford apparently needed Farrells help, Smith will need Farrell help but Farrell never needs anyone's help... Bearing in mind some of our biggest embarrassments where Farrell has been our 10. 2013 6N, 2015 WC, 2019 comeback by the Scots (where FORD saved us an even bigger humiliation). It's just a ridiculous and undeserved claim that he alone can be a functioning 10 and all the others require his presence to operate. It's just been proven not only wrong but likely the opposite of the truth so often.

Jones added on the Rugby Union Weekly podcast: "His [Farrell's] reading of the game, his ability to take pressure off Marcus is going to be so important."

Farrell's reading of the game has consistently been awful recently as he blindly follows a game plan, frequently butchering overlaps and being so predictable he hampered everyone around him. I'm sure Farrell gives his best and can be a great motivator but he seems to get praise that is so detached from what everyone can see on the pitch. "Iceman" being another perfect example, he has frequently shown he is anything but.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

TBF I'd give my all playing for England, problem is I'd be crap.

Surprised you didn't get a call up in 2018, the 2020 Autumn Nations or last year's 6N then….

 

[Goodey]

That is a very strange quote that honestly undermines both of them

That's if there's no other context or subsequent explanation, which to be fair I have seen is the case when people report on Jones quotes in the past

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Talking of quotes, Itoje's happily been giving fuel to those who claim the English are arrogant:

"My expectation, as an England player, is that whenever we take the field against anyone we should win".

Doubt the Scots will worry about context too much as that gets wheeled out ad nauseam in the build up to Murrayfield.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/18/maro-itoje-interview-england-rugby-union-breakdown

 

[Reiser99]

My biggest issue with Farrell outside of his form is that he looks completely clueless when England are losing. Instead of trying to change the game plan or adapt to what is happening he seems to double down on the tactics that haven't been working. Occasionally England have managed to come back through sheer pressure, but very often recently we've lost the game. There are plenty of rumours about EJ wanting people who don't question him and Farrell seems to fit that perfectly.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Talking of quotes, Itoje's happily been giving fuel to those who claim the English are arrogant:

"My expectation, as an England player, is that whenever we take the field against anyone we should win".

Doubt the Scots will worry about context too much as that gets wheeled out ad nauseam in the build up to Murrayfield.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/18/maro-itoje-interview-england-rugby-union-breakdown

I mean if any rugby player doesn't feel that way playing for a tier 1 International team should they be playing International rugby?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Farrell gets plenty of stick but he does deserve it. His communication with the refs is terrible, he went through a period of constantly high tackling people, he constantly misses 3/2 on 1s and his kicking is often aimless. Add that to his lack of pace and slow brain and you e got a player that doesn't deserve to play for England when you've got other much more talented players kicking about.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Times reporting that Farrell only started full training this week and may not be fit enough to get any game time before the 6N. Selecting any player with that build up is bizarre let alone the captain.

 

[Geordie]

Is Manu training or still injured?

 

[Geordie]

Farrell is due to play for Saracens this weekend.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Farrell is due to play for Saracens this weekend.

Times report said it would be a very late decision. If it really is that touch and go you have to think he's not really ready.

Also reading that Manu's not fit yet, but might possibly be back playing on the 30th.

 

[Scotty]

Times reporting that Farrell only started full training this week and may not be fit enough to get any game time before the 6N. Selecting any player with that build up is bizarre let alone the captain.

I have no issue with him being brought into the training camps as a training leader and the team captain as long as he doesnt take the field when not ready.

The other thing i thought with regards to Ford not being included is we all know Smith is an 80 min player given he does it most games for Quins and has done it for England, EJ likly wants a second 10 that covers more than 1 position, i kind of was hoping Malins would have some time at 10 to cover.

Having a backline of
Quirke 9
Smith 10
Malins 11 10 14 15
Slade 12 13, emergancy only 10/15
Marchant 13 11 14
May 14 11
Staward 15 14 11(cover but i wouldnt choose him there)

You dont need Faz or a second 10 in the team and given Furbank got time there i wouldnt be surprised if thats EJ's plan.

But for now Faz is in and will start vs Scotland at 12 not holding defenders with Slade at 13 and out of form May at 14...and youngs will be there too