England 2021/22

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Crazy I forgot all about Watson
Watson
Malins
Steward

Would be great combo all 3 can cover 15 but worry is May sticks in for Malins

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also IMO Lawes has nailed down that number 6 spot.
Which is brilliant but suddenly our bench lock options drop massively.

IF England can get Kruis and Launchbury back in and fit would be massive
1. Marler, 2. Cowan-Dickie, 3. Sinckler
4. Itoje, 5. Kruis
6. Lawes, 7. Curry, 8. Someone honestly Vunipola was playing well again he would be massive if he could return in form
9. Youngs, 10. Smith
12. Slade, 13. Marchant
11. Watson, 14. Malins, 15. Steward

16. George, 17. Genge, 18. Cole
19. Launchbury, 20. Underhill
21. Quirke, 22. Farrell, 23. Tuilagi

I'm being realistic re Faz and Youngs

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Also IMO Lawes has nailed down that number 6 spot.
Which is brilliant but suddenly our bench lock options drop massively.

IF England can get Kruis and Launchbury back in and fit would be massive
1. Marler, 2. Cowan-Dickie, 3. Sinckler
4. Itoje, 5. Kruis
6. Lawes, 7. Curry, 8. Someone honestly Vunipola was playing well again he would be massive if he could return in form
9. Youngs, 10. Smith
12. Slade, 13. Marchant
11. Watson, 14. Malins, 15. Steward

16. George, 17. Genge, 18. Cole
19. Launchbury, 20. Underhill
21. Quirke, 22. Farrell, 23. Tuilagi

I'm being realistic re Faz and Youngs

Don't see the point of Underhill on the bench tbh

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not so sure on Watson - if he comes back in form then that's great, but realistically this is yet another very serious leg injury and they'll catch up to him eventually. I wouldn't be hedging my bets on him playing near his best this season

I'd have Malins/Radwan/Steward (Radwan replacing the speedster spot held by May, Malins replacing the fullback-wing slot of Watson)

Realistically I think Marchant will stay on the wing, though

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Don't see the point of Underhill on the bench tbh

I would normally agree but at Tigers we had Van Staden start at 7 and he went full out made like 26 tackles then Reffell came on and won turnover after turnover.
IDK I think in this day and age with how important the breakdown is a 7 on the bench isn't the worse thing.

Potentially more a horses for courses thing against a team like SA Underhill, against someone like NZ a number 8

 

[JG-21]

I would normally agree but at Tigers we had Van Staden start at 7 and he went full out made like 26 tackles then Reffell came on and won turnover after turnover.
IDK I think in this day and age with how important the breakdown is a 7 on the bench isn't the worse thing.

Potentially more a horses for courses thing against a team like SA Underhill, against someone like NZ a number 8

I hope Jack Willis comes back strong, as I think he'd be a perfect fit.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Jack Willis would be great, barbeary for me is the interesting shout potentially for that back row sub spot just seems very Eddie Jones


Also happy no one is questioning TH sub

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Also happy no one is questioning TH sub

Depressingly there's literally no one else
Stuart is the best of the rest and we might as well have had 14 men on the pitch when he came on (hell, we did for 10mins of it)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Call me biased (I am) but I do think it's easy enough to see why Eddie likes Youngs so much.
Hopefully he sticks to this 50/30 or 40/40 split with Quirke, and then post world cup start Quirke and bring in someone like JVP.

 

[Which Tyler]

I wouldn't be firm in the timelines; but yes; Ideally, I want youngsters being integrated alongside the older heads, mostly from the bench, until they have the bank of experience and performances at international level to deserve the starting shirt.
When that point comes though, they should transition to starting, with the older head on the bench until there's a new youngster ready to take their place there.

So for now (for example), I'd have Youngs and Ford starting, with Quirke and Smith on the bench. That changes when it's ready to change.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I wouldn't be firm in the timelines; but yes; Ideally, I want youngsters being integrated alongside the older heads, mostly from the bench, until they have the bank of experience and performances at international level to deserve the starting shirt.
When that point comes though, they should transition to starting, with the older head on the bench until there's a new youngster ready to take their place there.

So for now (for example), I'd have Youngs and Ford starting, with Quirke and Smith on the bench. That changes when it's ready to change.

Smith is ready to start tho - him and Quirke aren't in remotely similar boats

 

[Which Tyler]

Smith is ready to start tho - him and Quirke aren't in remotely similar boats

You'll have to point me to Smith's "bank of experience and performances at international level"
Not that I have a particular problem with him starting, but he simply doesn't have that. Equally, Ford is no-where near to Youngs in terms of us needing to move on from him and get his successor up to speed ASAP.
Ford and Youngs aren't in remotely similar boats.


Yes, yes, I know there are people, even on this forum, who look at the triumvriate of Youngs Ford Farrell and think the one who's holding us back is Ford - but they're... wrong. just plain wrong.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You'll have to point me to Smith's "bank of experience and performances at international level"
Not that I have a particular problem with him starting, but he simply doesn't have that. Equally, Ford is no-where near to Youngs in terms of us needing to move on from him and get his successor up to speed ASAP.
Ford and Youngs aren't in remotely similar boats.


Yes, yes, I know there are people, even on this forum, who look at the triumvriate of Youngs Ford Farrell and think the one who's holding us back is Ford - but they're... wrong. just plain wrong.

I agree with this. I'd have Ford as the starting 10 and Smith with significant time off the bench and Smith starting in some of the "easier" games. I think Smith is definitely ready, it's more I want to retain a 2nd Flyhalf and want Ford back in the team so there is no excuse for having Farrell as a 10 option. I think if Ford is given the freedom to play his natural game again, he can be every bit as good as Smith and the pair could compliment each other very well, with whoever comes off the bench upping the pace and maybe having the benefit of seeing stuff from the sidelines. Kind of similar to the arrangement we had when Care and Youngs were our 9's in the early years of Jones. Whoever came on would invariably perform better than who started.

What I really want to see is us nail down some solid 12 options. Tuilagi is too fragile and Slade has only had a few good games there. I'm not a fan of playing players out of position and Slade does not normally play 12.

I'm no fan of Youngs but realistically he needs to stick around until an alternative has been bedded in.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The fact we dont have another 9 with 30 odd caps is ridiculous. You have youngs and care, then no one. Players like Robson and Spencer realistically should have at least 20 odd caps.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I'm still not quite sure why anyone wouldn't pick Premiership winner, England international, British Lion and 12/12 kicker in the Autumn internationals (including the nerveless winning kick against the World Champions) Marcus Smith (22) as England's starting fly half.

Everyone keeps suggesting that he's 'yet to make the next step up', but he keeps making them and keeps playing well.

He does plenty of the unglamorous stuff too.

It is just possible that he is the unicorn player that England have lacked for all my rugby-watching life. I reckon most countries would build a team around him and I can't understand why England don't.

(I'm not suggesting Ford can't play, he's clearly international standard and free of Farrell, he would undoubtedly be even better. I just can't see what he brings that Smith doesn't. It's also interesting to observe that everyone's raving about Freddie Steward (20) and no-one's suggesting he should be given 30 mins off the bench behind Elliot Daly.)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm still not quite sure why anyone wouldn't pick Premiership winner, England international, British Lion and 12/12 kicker in the Autumn internationals (including the nerveless winning kick against the World Champions) Marcus Smith (22) as England's starting fly half.

Everyone keeps suggesting that he's 'yet to make the next step up', but he keeps making them and keeps playing well.

He does plenty of the unglamorous stuff too.

It is just possible that he is the unicorn player that England have lacked for all my rugby-watching life. I reckon most countries would build a team around him and I can't understand why England don't.

(I'm not suggesting Ford can't play, he's clearly international standard and free of Farrell, he would undoubtedly be even better. I just can't see what he brings that Smith doesn't. It's also interesting to observe that everyone's raving about Freddie Steward (20) and no-one's suggesting he should be given 30 mins off the bench behind Elliot Daly.)

Well mainly because Daly isn't an actually out and out 15.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

You'll have to point me to Smith's "bank of experience and performances at international level"
Not that I have a particular problem with him starting, but he simply doesn't have that. Equally, Ford is no-where near to Youngs in terms of us needing to move on from him and get his successor up to speed ASAP.
Ford and Youngs aren't in remotely similar boats.


Yes, yes, I know there are people, even on this forum, who look at the triumvriate of Youngs Ford Farrell and think the one who's holding us back is Ford - but they're... wrong. just plain wrong.

Smith is a premiership winner, a lion and has been a starting prem 10 for years now - Quirke is great but has been around for like a year...

They're not in the same boat in terms of hand holding at all. Why shouldn't a player be able to start from the off anyway? He's not shown any evidence of being overawed by occasions, be that this weekend, on the lions or winning the premiership? It may well come, but ther is 0 evidence for that being a part of his character at all.

By all means rotate him with Ford if you want, but it's not the same as trying to get Quirke up to speed properly with top level rugby

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

British Lion

A what?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I expect come six nations.
Ford in for Furbanks
Marchant in for Freeman
Daly in for Atkinson (Maybe Manu depending how bad he is)
Billy in for Simmonds
Mako for Davison
George in for Dolly
Jack Willis in for Ludlam
Tom Willis in for Chick

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I expect come six nations.
Ford in for Furbanks
Marchant in for Freeman
Daly in for Atkinson (Maybe Manu depending how bad he is)
Billy in for Simmonds
Mako for Davison
George in for Dolly
Jack Willis in for Ludlam
Tom Willis in for Chick

I really can't wait to see these 2 in particular on the international stage. Have the feeling they are the sort who could force their way into the first team almost immediately.