England 2021/22

[BPM]

I rate Chick, but I don't think it"s unfair to say he was anonymous against the USA. I agree that Ludlow and the locks weren't good (pretty sure Underhill was the other flanker BTW) but given the standard of the opposition, he had a good opportunity to shine and he didn't take it.

If Dombrandt's performance against Canada was a 7/10, I'd struggle to give Chick more than a 5 for the USA game. I'm not saying he was bad, but IMO, to rate above average. you need to be at least noticeable and he was invisible. Ludlow was visible, but more in a bad way and even more so vs. Canada.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

IDK I think Billy will have a big season TBH

 

[BPM]

It depends on how he's used the additional rest time and pre-season he'll have.

If he's on it, he could remind everyone how good he can be. If he's used the time to chill and switch-off, it'll take him half a season to get going.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

My money would be on the latter. Throughout his career he's always taken a decent chunk of time to get up to par after a spell out injured or otherwise not playing.

 

[Geordie]

I was very disappointed with Callum, hes a really good young alround 8, but sadly he just didnt show up at all.
Probably missed his one shot for further caps...but it may push him to a big season and that can only hlep us (Falcons)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think that's a little harsh on Chick - I mean...who did show up?
With the exception of Joe C and Radwan it was a very forgettable summer

 

[BPM]

I can think of several players who've never really shone and keep getting called-up so I wouldn't be too concerned for Chick's England future.

My money would be on the latter. Throughout his career he's always taken a decent chunk of time to get up to par after a spell out injured or otherwise not playing.

Me too …

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean when was the last time he had a chunk away from the game without it being due to injury?
This season in the championship, but all the saracens players looked rusty.

 

[BPM]

I think that's a little harsh on Chick - I mean...who did show up?
With the exception of Joe C and Radwan it was a very forgettable summer

Might even be a bit generous to Big Joe TBH. The fact that he finished some fairly straightforward tries against Tier 2 opponents doesn't really convince me. Hopefully it's the start he needed to recapture some form. Radwan created his own tries which is a bit different IMO.

I thought Smith played well enough to warrant more inclusion and a few other new faces like Randall did fine.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ok next one...

Does Dombrandt start in the AI's?

Will be monumentally hacked off if he doesn't.

Ref our midfield Slade's not the problem. I would like to see Smith start at 10 or Ford if he remembers how he used to play, but either has to be given licence - there's no point you playing them if they're neutered. I'd like to see Devoto at 12, but would have no problem with Lawrence.

Faz will always be ultra competitive, sometimes iceman like, but it feels like his race is run.

 

[BPM]

I kind of agree. I do wonder whether reality is catching up with the myth? Farrell is knocking on the door of 30 and is no longer quite the media darling he was.

Without any starts in the Lions tests, average bench involvements and now failing to make the 23, I wonder whether a late reality check is coming?

I see Aki has recently commented on how good he is off the field and to me that kind of reinforces my opinion that he's been living off his character rather than his actual ability. I don't actually doubt he is influential and drives standards in training etc. I've just rarely seen him really deliver on that in a game situation. As you say, 'he'll always be ultra competitive'. I guess the question is whether having the right attitude will be enough with some real talent breathing down his neck.

 

[Stus7]

I kind of agree. I do wonder whether reality is catching up with the myth? Farrell is knocking on the door of 30 and is no longer quite the media darling he was.

Without any starts in the Lions tests, average bench involvements and now failing to make the 23, I wonder whether a late reality check is coming?

I see Aki has recently commented on how good he is off the field and to me that kind of reinforces my opinion that he's been living off his character rather than his actual ability. I don't actually doubt he is influential and drives standards in training etc. I've just rarely seen him really deliver on that in a game situation. As you say, 'he'll always be ultra competitive'. I guess the question is whether having the right attitude will be enough with some real talent breathing down his neck.

I'd hope everyone at the highest level would be very competitive anyway.

 

[BPM]

Will be monumentally hacked off if he doesn't.

Ref our midfield Slade's not the problem. I would like to see Smith start at 10 or Ford if he remembers how he used to play, but either has to be given licence - there's no point you playing them if they're neutered. I'd like to see Devoto at 12, but would have no problem with Lawrence.

Faz will always be ultra competitive, sometimes iceman like, but it feels like his race is run.

Also, Slade might not be 'the problem' but I'd definitely question whether he's the solution.

He's got 40 caps now. Across that time he's had some good games, but 60%+ have probably been mediocre and there have been some downright poor games in there too. In fairness, that time involves a fair few periods where our 13 barely saw the ball, but that's only a partly valid excuse.

Ultimately, he seems to have more or less nailed down his spot but not very convincingly and I'm not sure he's quite worthy of that level of security. If Marchant or Lawrence continue to play well, I'd like to see them given the same level of opportunity Slade has had.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ref our midfield Slade's not the problem.

I've no real issue with Slade - he's yet to consistently bring club form to international level but he's a good player (though I suppose that starts to become more of a concern the more caps he racks up - willing to cut some slack with the way our attack has been coached the last two years, though)
My issue is that we're not looking at who's beyond him - playing Marchant on the wing instead of getting him a start at 13 is infuriating

Don't think he should be un-droppable/un-rotatable (which he seems to be in EJs eyes atm)

In fact I struggle to think of a 13 EJ has capped other than Lawrence? (Slade was shifted to 12 when he played there)

Edit:
Looked it up: Daly and Marchant both first capped by EJ, and Nowell got a start at 13 too
Think EJ has tried 8 outside centres in his tenure (JJ, Slade, Manu, Teo, Lawrence, Marchant, Daly, Nowell) - though Daly was quickly shifted to 15, Nowell is a winger, and one of those was Teo...
Better than I thought, tbh, though I still think we need to be trying them out more (i.e. Marchant technically capped and looked at, but only one start at centre and it was in a RWC warm up match vs Italy)

 

[Scotty]

I hope Smith carries on this autumn, the main thing for me with smith, we all know what he can do but for England and the Lions he tackled well, his defence was good and he didnt hide from contact without the ball which is great to see from a player like him. And at no point crumbled under pressure, same as in prem final or semi final when 28 - 0 down.

Smith Manu Slade could be a dangerous combination. If manu is fit. Unlikely...but still.

Cant bite in on smith because of manu's threat, bite in on manu and slade gets the ball in space and with good hand skills can bring wingers into affect, might be where we see a may/Watson/Radwan on 1 wing for pace and Big Joe(lawrence played well there vs USA so obviously he is now a fully fledged winger and will never play centre again for England...this is the way! ) or jack Nowell on the other to break defences.

With Malins/Steward at the back.


On Slade he still has a great skillset but i do also want Marchant or Lawrence to get more meaningful game time.

Faz i really havnt been fussed at for a while not which is a shame.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I've no real issue with Slade - he's yet to consistently bring club form to international level but he's a good player (though I suppose that starts to become more of a concern the more caps he racks up - willing to cut some slack with the way our attack has been coached the last two years, though)
My issue is that we're not looking at who's beyond him - playing Marchant on the wing instead of getting him a start at 13 is infuriating

Don't think he should be un-droppable/un-rotatable (which he seems to be in EJs eyes atm)

In fact I struggle to think of a 13 EJ has capped other than Lawrence? (Slade was shifted to 12 when he played there)

Edit:
Looked it up: Daly and Marchant both first capped by EJ, and Nowell got a start at 13 too
Think EJ has tried 8 outside centres in his tenure (JJ, Slade, Manu, Teo, Lawrence, Marchant, Daly, Nowell) - though Daly was quickly shifted to 15, Nowell is a winger, and one of those was Teo...
Better than I thought, tbh, though I still think we need to be trying them out more (i.e. Marchant technically capped and looked at, but only one start at centre and it was in a RWC warm up match vs Italy)

This all screams that the problem is at 10/12 to me when you look at how stable (relatively) those two positions are in EJs tenure. Fiddling while Rome burns blah blah

(Keep Ford as 10, get Smith in slowly, you know what/who I'm getting at)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This all screams that the problem is at 10/12 to me when you look at how stable (relatively) those two positions are in EJs tenure. Fiddling while Rome burns blah blah

(Keep Ford as 10, get Smith in slowly, you know what/who I'm getting at)

Yeah, 10/12 is definitely an issue
Think Smith is the first new cap at 10 under EJs reign (Cips, Farrell, Ford the others)

12 has always been an issue, pretty much since Greenwood really

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think half of the reason Slade looks so poor at times for England is because Farrell is at 12 with him, offering absolutely nothing at 12. We have food options at 13 but 12 is still a massive issue.

 

[BPM]

Slade seems to get a lot of excuses made for him. Playing alongside Farrell doesn't cause him to make basic individual errors. He often makes basic errors like knock ons and poor forward passes and that seems to have been irrespective of his centre partner.

Also, when he's been the 'senior' centre alongside less experienced players, he hasn't really looked like it.

Don't get me wrong, I rate him but that's on the promise of him bringing his Exeter form to the England team which doesn't happen often enough for him to keep getting starts ahead of Marchant etc.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Slade seems to get a lot of excuses made for him. Playing alongside Farrell doesn't cause him to make basic individual errors. He often makes basic errors like knock ons and poor forward passes and that seems to have been irrespective of his centre partner.

Also, when he's been the 'senior' centre alongside less experienced players, he hasn't really looked like it.

Don't get me wrong, I rate him but that's on the promise of him bringing his Exeter form to the England team which doesn't happen often enough for him to keep getting starts ahead of Marchant etc.

Yeah I agree, he does get excuses made and I get what you mean when he is supposed to be a senior player. Not sure why we've struggled to find two decent centres but maybe they all get turned in to back rows at youth level.