England 2021/22

[TRF_stormer2010]

Cheers, guys. So apart from what looks like a consensus of what would be to me a new face (Steward) at 15 no huge upsets expected relatively speaking. Not that England would need to. Like I said, you had a good showing with a very young squad only 2 years ago and that final was an offload here, holding onto the ball in contact there and a bit of luck at one or two scrums away from being a totally different game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cheers, guys. So apart from what looks like a consensus of what would be to me a new face (Steward) at 15 no huge upsets expected relatively speaking. Not that England would need to. Like I said, you had a good showing with a very young squad only 2 years ago and that final was an offload here, holding onto the ball in contact there and a bit of luck at one or two scrums away from being a totally different game.

Think there's changes we'd all like to make, it's just being realistic about what we expect EJ to do

For example not many (any?) would start Farrell, but he's EJ's captain and he starts him whenver he's fit - he might slot in at 12 alongside Marcus Smith at 10, but Tuilagi starts pretty much every game when fit and Slade is one of EJ's favourites too, so I think it's more likely that Smith would miss out than any of the others

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Apparently LCD and Watson out - George in.

Imagine Lynagh and Marchant too?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The way I look at it comparing the 2019 squad to potential 2023 squad forwards wise
Hookers:
2019: George, Cowan-Dickie, Singleton
2023: Cowan-Dickie, George, OPEN
3rd hooker spot is wide open, Blamire isn't starting for Falcons, Dolly is in good form but behind Montoya (TBF Montoya is genuinely world class) and Barbeary might actually play hooker who knows

Loosehead:
2019: Mako, Marler, Genge
2023: Marler, Genge, Mako

Tighthead:
2019: Sinckler, Cole
2023: Sinckler, Stuart

Lock:
2019: Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Luanchbury,
2023: Itoje, Lawes, Open, Open
Hoping Kruis does come back, If Launchbury stays fit he should be in but really Hill is prob next in line

Back Row
2019: Curry, Underhill, Vunipola, Wilson, Ludlam
2023: Curry, Underhill, OPEN, OPEN, OPEN
Loads of options here still
Blindside: Martin, Barbeary
Openside: J.Willis,
At 8 Dombrandt, Simmonds, T.Willis
My money would be potentially Jack Willis, Barbeary and Dombrandt
I reckon Eddie might be hoping Martin starts to play lock more and could be a proper Lock/Blindside and Barbeary to play Hooker more. If that happens I reckon the two Willis brothers will go.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Imagine Lynagh and Marchant too?

I think there's a certain number that he can call in to camp (under the PRL agreement, cause it's still in season so they try and limit disruption to clubs) so unless there were two back injuries it'd be one or the other (though I have seen Itoje is a maybe, so maybe Lynagh will replace him )

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Loosehead:
2019: Mako, Marler, Genge
2023: Marler, Genge, Mako

Tighthead:
2019: Sinckler, Cole
2023: Sinckler, Stuart

I'm quite confident that the reason Trevor Davison is making it into the squads is because EJ intends to take him as a 5th prop who is genuinely capable of covering both sides of the scrum. It's just a shame that he isn't a particularly good player.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm quite confident that the reason Trevor Davison is making it into the squads is because EJ intends to take him as a 5th prop who is genuinely capable of covering both sides of the scrum. It's just a shame that he isn't a particularly good player.

True.
I hope Genge has a big series IMO potentially one of the few players that might well push Farrell for Captaincy and if Farrell loses his captain's role I can see him drifting from being starting 10 or 12 within a year

 

[Geordie]

I'm quite confident that the reason Trevor Davison is making it into the squads is because EJ intends to take him as a 5th prop who is genuinely capable of covering both sides of the scrum. It's just a shame that he isn't a particularly good player.

Ill dispute that. Even i dont think hes an international player...but hes a very good club player. Hes very fit, certainly holds his own in the scrums, hits every ruck/ follows the gameplan you ask him to...and tackles all day.

Hes probably Deans first name on the teamsheet, which when you consider he has Mark Wilson, Welch, Radwan etc etc...shows how highly he is rated.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean I've seen the players Deano used to have down as some of the first on the team sheet not sure how much confidence that fills me with.
Took getting rid of relegation for him to take more chances.

 

[Geordie]

True.
I hope Genge has a big series IMO potentially one of the few players that might well push Farrell for Captaincy and if Farrell loses his captain's role I can see him drifting from being starting 10 or 12 within a year

i think he needs it to be honest. He's been the "huge potential" for a long time now...and really hasnt brought it in to an England shirt. There are youngsters coming through who WILL challenge him over the next few years...so he needs to produce now.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ill dispute that. Even i dont think hes an international player...but hes a very good club player. Hes very fit, certainly holds his own in the scrums, hits every ruck/ follows the gameplan you ask him to...and tackles all day.

I think we're in agreement then really. Sure he's a fine club player but I think if you take away his ability to cover both sides of the scrum then there are plenty of guys who are better than him at both loosehead and tighthead.

 

[Geordie]

I mean I've seen the players Deano used to have down as some of the first on the team sheet not sure how much confidence that fills me with.
Took getting rid of relegation for him to take more chances.

Well when you have the budget we have...you have to do the best you can....

Ive been hugely critical of us for many years now....but genuinely think we have the strongest squad ive seen in years and years.

 

[Geordie]

I think we're in agreement then really. Sure he's a fine club player but I think if you take away his ability to cover both sides of the scrum then there are plenty of guys who are better than him at both loosehead and tighthead.

very possibly...but none of them have stood up though? Even Genge is still flattering to deceive at this level....

Obano failed miserably...

Id like to see West given a good shot. He looks a proper prop.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Genge has been solid as a prop at this level.
Certainly not looked out of place.

His worse series was in the middle of lockdown which clearly took a mental toll.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well when you have the budget we have...you have to do the best you can....

Ive been hugely critical of us for many years now....but genuinely think we have the strongest squad ive seen in years and years.

What's the budget got to do with picking journeymen over talented youngsters?

 

[Geordie]

Genge has been solid as a prop at this level.
Certainly not looked out of place.

His worse series was in the middle of lockdown which clearly took a mental toll.

Solid but not the force of nature we keep expecting, from his Tigers performances.

 

[Geordie]

What's the budget got to do with picking journeymen over talented youngsters?

Well relegation results in a significant loss of income. Dean obviously didnt trust his kids....something all of us Falcons were very vocal about.

I for one am grateful for no relegation as hes finally playing them,.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair to Genge most of his caps are off the bench (10 starts out of 30 caps), and those starts are pretty split up over the length of his career. Most consecutive starts he's had is two, and that was vs Tier 2 opposition or in RWC warm up games
Hard to really set down a marker coming off the bench into a tired/mismatched pack - Mujati used to talk about it a lot in his videos, how once you were the bench guy it was hard to break out of that role

 

[Teddington Logic]

To be fair to Genge most of his caps are off the bench (10 starts out of 30 caps)
Hard to really set down a marker coming off the bench into a tired/mismatched pack - Mujati used to talk about it a lot in his videos, how once you were the bench guy it was hard to break out of that role

Just ask Dan Robson or Danny Care about being the bench guy

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF Danny Care started 45% of his appearances.
In fact in his final year of International rugby started 5 of the 10 games

Solid but not the force of nature we keep expecting, from his Tigers performances.

I mean isn't that more the difference between International and Club though? Better defences, less space to run etc
Like West for example what suggests he would be more than Solid at International level?

Don't get me wrong solid international props are the foundation to build upon.