Dan Lydiate, the missing link nobody noticed

[Slamdunk]

For all the relative success enjoyed by Wales over the last few years, and all the clamour for the two opensides to be included, there seems to have been one man continually ignored, Dan Lydiate. Whether a fully-fit Sam Warburton can operate as a 6 at international level is up for discussion but he certainly cannot do it when he is just a tad short of match fitness. Wales have two world class 7's - England would love just one. The irony is that Wales do not have two world class 6's where England have a few decent players there.

Dan Lydiate is a mountain of a man and a true world-class exponent of the chop-tackle. He is absolutely destructive at the breakdown and a lot of what Wales have achieved is down to this unsung hero (a typical 6 you might say). His wrecking ball manner and the way he takes opponents out before they even get a yard of pace up has been a main element to Wales at the breakdown - with Warburton and Jenkins generally the men to get turnover ball as a result.

Its definately clear now that Wales are not the same team without him, but the other problem is that Jenkins 'demise' means we lose out in the tackle area, so Evans needs to develop this part of his game - or someone else- because we are light handed.

Theres no doubt Lydiate will start against France and without him Vunipola wil continue to make hard yards when Wales meet England - Lydiate can bring him down at source.

As Wales suddenly seem to have developed strength in depth, its now noticeable that we only have one specialist 6 - and with Gatlands game-plan dependent on a good 6 we look short there, very short.

 

[Hendo74]

I agree, Lydiate will bring some balance back. Sam can get back to doing what he does best, whilst Tips can still have a huge impact from the bench.

PS Lydiate's Twitter account is funny. Where other Welsh players are plugging brands like Adidas, Land Rover etc, Dan can be found praising the latest JCB!!!

 

[dai_seven]

I agree. The "new" policy of picking Tips and Warbs as starters hasn't worked so far. As they said on Scrum V we aren't as dominant in the front 5 as 3 years ago against England and Warbs isn't quite fit yet.
It is the logical way to go to fit with the "expansive" game we want (apparently) to play but we need to get other sorted out.
Personally, I would have gone with Tips and Lydiate to start against Ireland and send Warbs back to play at least another game with the Blues first.

 

[Maverick1987]

Imo Lydiate and Warburton are Wales best options on the flanks . For me Tipuric goes missing in important games and doesn't do enough unseen work . It's ok been flash but if he can't do the basics he will always be behind Sam

 

[McTallshort]

Playing 2 blindside flankers is seen as silly yet there is a real fad at the minute for playing 2 opensides. It's almost as if you are saying I have 2 jackets so I need to play them both, bit like having 2 fly halves and squeezing them both in, not that anyone would be stupid enough to do that.....

 

[bushytop]

Playing 2 blindside flankers is seen as silly yet there is a real fad at the minute for playing 2 opensides. It's almost as if you are saying I have 2 jackets so I need to play them both, bit like having 2 fly halves and squeezing them both in, not that anyone would be stupid enough to do that.....

To be fair, Warburton hadn't had much rugby and lydiate just returned from injury so although they provide the better balance, two unfit flankers would have been one too many... particularly when Tips has been so consistent for a long time.

Now both are fit, I would imagine that lydiate will start and tips will come on at the 60 minute point.

 

[dullonien]

I think Sam and Tips can work, but it would require a slight change of tactics around the breakdown. Warburton hasn't been as effective as usual there, but it's difficult to judge whether it's because he's out of position at 6 or whether it's a lack of match fitness.

We'd maybe need to ask a little more from our tight 5 when it comes to clearing out at the breakdown, because that's one of the reasons when Tips and the backline haven't been effective. Ireland and Scotland have managed to disrupt and slow down too much ball, leaving us with organised defensive lines to contend with. Generate quick ball, and watch Tips, Warbs, Faletau and the entire backline get more involved and more effective.

Introducing Lydiate would probably help there, but then we lose Tips to exploit the space/mismatches. For now though, reverting to the tried and tested Lydiate-Warburton-Faletau back row is probably the right thing to do. But I think it's worth re-introducing Tips as a starter again once we've fine tuned other areas.

 

[AzaMatt]

as far as depth goes i think we should start getting king more game time at 6, perhaps have him come on as a sub for the italy game, we need good backup for lydiate

 

[dullonien]

as far as depth goes i think we should start getting king more game time at 6, perhaps have him come on as a sub for the italy game, we need good backup for lydiate

Yeah, i'd like to see more of King as well. He's developed into quite a rounded player, with a good balance between pace and power, good work rate too.

I'd also like to see more of Baker at 8, but he's going to have to bide his time, work hard at the Ospreys to regain the form he was showing previously. We need a genuine backup to Faletau, and Baker is still in pole position. King won't cut it at international level, even if he's looked decent there for the O's. He's clearly a blindside imo.

How the hell do the likes of Ellis Jenkins, James Davies, Olly Griffiths etc. go about breaking into the Welsh backrow?

 

[j'nuh]

For all the relative success enjoyed by Wales over the last few years, and all the clamour for the two opensides to be included, there seems to have been one man continually ignored, Dan Lydiate. Whether a fully-fit Sam Warburton can operate as a 6 at international level is up for discussion but he certainly cannot do it when he is just a tad short of match fitness. Wales have two world class 7's - England would love just one. The irony is that Wales do not have two world class 6's where England have a few decent players there.

Dan Lydiate is a mountain of a man and a true world-class exponent of the chop-tackle. He is absolutely destructive at the breakdown and a lot of what Wales have achieved is down to this unsung hero (a typical 6 you might say). His wrecking ball manner and the way he takes opponents out before they even get a yard of pace up has been a main element to Wales at the breakdown - with Warburton and Jenkins generally the men to get turnover ball as a result.

Its definately clear now that Wales are not the same team without him, but the other problem is that Jenkins 'demise' means we lose out in the tackle area, so Evans needs to develop this part of his game - or someone else- because we are light handed.

Theres no doubt Lydiate will start against France and without him Vunipola wil continue to make hard yards when Wales meet England - Lydiate can bring him down at source.

As Wales suddenly seem to have developed strength in depth, its now noticeable that we only have one specialist 6 - and with Gatlands game-plan dependent on a good 6 we look short there, very short.

Kvesic.
Fraser.
Our Lord and Saviour AKA God AKA Seymour.

Come at me.

Lydiate's good at what he does and all, but I feel you're overstating him quite some. Lydiate's skill set is a little too one-pony for a flanker for my tastes. Does a general skill very well, but lacks any specialism.

Warburton/Tipuric should be given time to come into its own. Although I'd also be equally tempted by picking a specialist carrier at 6.

 

[Slamdunk]

Kvesic.
Fraser.
Our Lord and Saviour AKA God AKA Seymour.

Come at me.

Lydiate's good at what he does and all, but I feel you're overstating him quite some. Lydiate's skill set is a little too one-pony for a flanker for my tastes. Does a general skill very well, but lacks any specialism.

Warburton/Tipuric should be given time to come into its own. Although I'd also be equally tempted by picking a specialist carrier at 6.

Perhaps with one eye on the others coming through and another eye on Tipuric, Lydiate seems to have moved away from the one-trick pony you allude to. Certainly this season he has been making yardage ball-in-hand and it seems to be an element he is working on. With that in mind he is the biggest bloke in our back row, as wide as a barn door and a huge specimen. Adding a carrying element to his game could certainly make him even more invaluable. He is good at what he does yes, but what he does is essential to the Welsh game. Lots of teams now employ the chop-tackle as a tactic and there is nobody in the world better than Lydiate, so he does in fact have a specialism.

We will find out against France, it will be obvious. If Lydiate makes more than 2/3 carries in the game then it will be tactical. If he adds that to his game at international level, trust me, he could take some stopping. He is a huge man.

 

[AzaMatt]

How the hell do the likes of Ellis Jenkins, James Davies, Olly Griffiths etc. go about breaking into the Welsh backrow?

ive got a feeling Olly Griffiths will be sams replacement when he retires many years down the line, maybe start getting a shot after the next world cup. from what ive seen of him he is in the same mold as sam, a big carrying backrow who also gets a load of turnovers.

lydiates carrying has improved a lot, has actually made a few breaks a few times for the ospreys as well. id say back to the tried and tested for france and england, tips can start against italy when he can help us (hopefully) rack up the points, if we are still in contention for the championship!

 

[Ospreylian]

Lydiate's good at what he does and all, but I feel you're overstating him quite some. Lydiate's skill set is a little too one-pony for a flanker for my tastes. Does a general skill very well, but lacks any specialism.
.

Mr Chopper lacks specialism??

 

[Rich Taff]

One thing you spot is the combination of Lydiate and Jenkins. Gethin is like a 3rd flanker over the ball. Tips is a great player, he's very much in the Martin Williams mould, as the link up man. He's just not as effective when the team is on the back foot, and margins are so narrow, that it's been exposed a bit in the first couple of games.
I expect the 6 7 8 to be the tried and proven one for the France game, then the 6 7 experiment to be used again vs Italy, before Tipuric is a sub again vs England.

 

[Ozzay]

ive got a feeling Olly Griffiths will be sams replacement when he retires many years down the line, maybe start getting a shot after the next world cup. from what ive seen of him he is in the same mold as sam, a big carrying backrow who also gets a load of turnovers

Olly looks a decent prospect but hes definately gonna have to bid his time. Sadly for him hes in a position where we have 2 world class 7s and Gatland only picks two 7s in his squad unless theres abit of versatility in them.

 

[Slamdunk]

One thing you spot is the combination of Lydiate and Jenkins. Gethin is like a 3rd flanker over the ball. Tips is a great player, he's very much in the Martin Williams mould, as the link up man. He's just not as effective when the team is on the back foot, and margins are so narrow, that it's been exposed a bit in the first couple of games.
I expect the 6 7 8 to be the tried and proven one for the France game, then the 6 7 experiment to be used again vs Italy, before Tipuric is a sub again vs England.

Im not sure i agree. In 2013 when we smashed England i watched the first half with my wife and she was behind the sofa biting her nails off. It was intense, shattering, physical and very very close indeed yet Tipuric held up well and was MoM. The reason was that Warburton was at 100% on the blindside. I suspect that, had Lydiate played against Ireland and Scotland our back row still would have looked slightly off. Tipuric has been carrying Warburton to a degree and as a result the back row lacked dynamism. Certainly, when alongside an in form match-fit Warburton, Tipuric has looked great.

the key here is Warburton - not his fault, and he is getting fitter. Lydiate might feel the benefit of the match-fit Warbs that Tipuric missed and as a result our back row will go much better.

its my theory anyway.