[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Bada-Bing!]

On face masks, anyone have to go On public transport on Monday onwards in England?

 

[Reiser99]

On face masks, anyone have to go On public transport on Monday onwards in England?

This is a good example of the fact that this government lacks any kind of common sense. If the purpose is to stop the virus then it should have been implemented as soon as they decided. If there is an issue that people might not have access straightaway then say they are compulsory, but won't be fined until the 15th. That way the majority of people would start sooner and get used to it and the few who can't have time to sort a mask out. Delaying it, just like the air quarantine just suggests it's not that essential.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

This is a good example of the fact that this government lacks any kind of common sense. If the purpose is to stop the virus then it should have been implemented as soon as they decided. If there is an issue that people might not have access straightaway then say they are compulsory, but won't be fined until the 15th. That way the majority of people would start sooner and get used to it and the few who can't have time to sort a mask out. Delaying it, just like the air quarantine just suggests it's not that essential.

Quarantine For travelers coming to UK, face masks the list goes on. They are making it up as they go along.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-53012565

Government being sued over carehome deaths. Be interesting to see how it plays out as surely they'll have to provide some sort of evidence.

I'm genuinely interested to see what the result is. Whilst most can agree the way the government has handled this has been pathetic, the fact is he died of a natural disease. Can a government be blamed for people dying of diseases? Would the grounds of the case be gross negligence on their part? If it succeeds, could future governments be sued for disease outbreaks? Would everyone who lost someone in a carehome then be able to sue the government? How about in any other walk of life?

Personally I think it will fail. It seems like it could open up a huge pandoras box basically setting the precedent that the government is responsible for protecting you from nature.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I'm genuinely interested to see what the result is. Whilst most can agree the way the government has handled this has been pathetic, the fact is he died of a natural disease. Can a government be blamed for people dying of diseases? Would the grounds of the case be gross negligence on their part? If it succeeds, could future governments be sued for disease outbreaks? Would everyone who lost someone in a carehome then be able to sue the government? How about in any other walk of life?

Personally I think it will fail. It seems like it could open up a huge pandoras box basically setting the precedent that the government is responsible for protecting you from nature.

Law of torts mate. Yes it was foreseeable imo in Civil law. Whether the Government can get round it With a public defence? I will leave that to the lawyers on here.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sorta feels like we're doing all our measures in reverse

Strict quarantine, sports behind closed doors and facemasks as we're trying to come out rather than early doors when it was just life as usual

 

[Reiser99]

I'm genuinely interested to see what the result is. Whilst most can agree the way the government has handled this has been pathetic, the fact is he died of a natural disease. Can a government be blamed for people dying of diseases? Would the grounds of the case be gross negligence on their part? If it succeeds, could future governments be sued for disease outbreaks? Would everyone who lost someone in a carehome then be able to sue the government? How about in any other walk of life?

Personally I think it will fail. It seems like it could open up a huge pandoras box basically setting the precedent that the government is responsible for protecting you from nature.

I doubt it will succeed. I have no faith in the government being held to account as long as it's in power. Simple fact is they put all their resources into hospitals and pretty much ignored care homes. The difference between this and general deaths would be that they knew there was a risk and did nothing. Very hard to prove. What I hope is that it will force the government to reveal more of their meetings and decision making processes that can be scrutinised more.

 

[Which Tyler]

On face masks, anyone have to go On public transport on Monday onwards in England?

My niece will be.
She gets back from (0 active case) New Zealand on Tuesday (I think).
And in order to self-quaranteen for 14 days, she's advised to travel from Heathrow to Devon on public transport...
She doesn't have to wear a mask to do so, as it's accepted that she may not be able to source a mask overseas.
Which would make no difference if given an on-the-spot fine.


Yeah...

 

[The Seeker]

Unfortunately, Covid 19 is on the rise again in Los Angeles County. The people should have listened to Governor Newsom. He told them to hold off on social gatherings at beaches, churches, parks, etc. But some counties didn't take his advice and now they're paying for it, especially highly populated LA County.

https://www.kcet.org/coronavirus-co...-fy53t9AeMjKYuPHSpssFG63cl9hcthJJ7UuUlLNf5g7A

 

[duncanb]

I'm genuinely interested to see what the result is. Whilst most can agree the way the government has handled this has been pathetic, the fact is he died of a natural disease. Can a government be blamed for people dying of diseases? Would the grounds of the case be gross negligence on their part? If it succeeds, could future governments be sued for disease outbreaks? Would everyone who lost someone in a carehome then be able to sue the government? How about in any other walk of life?

Personally I think it will fail. It seems like it could open up a huge pandoras box basically setting the precedent that the government is responsible for protecting you from nature.

Believe it was NHS who said they needed to free up beds for the huge intake that never happened , Government wrote blank cheques for care homes to take the bed blockers.
So in theory both equally culpable of course by definition NHS is Government / tax payers.
From horses mouth Mrsduncanb earns a decent salary attempting to move bed blockers for 29+ yes.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Law of torts mate. Yes it was foreseeable imo in Civil law. Whether the Government can get round it With a public defence? I will leave that to the lawyers on here.

Yeah I'd agree. You don't need motive in a civil case and putting a patient who you were not certain was cured in a carehome is reckless and deaths are reasonably foreseeable. I reckon there'll be a settlement out of court to make it go away rather than risk a mass of cases. Damages would be fairly minimal in any carehome case I'd imagine too.

 

[duncanb]

Yeah I'd agree. You don't need motive in a civil case and putting a patient who you were not certain was cured in a carehome is reckless and deaths are reasonably foreseeable. I reckon there'll be a settlement out of court to make it go away rather than risk a mass of cases. Damages would be fairly minimal in any carehome case I'd imagine too.

To play the devil's advocate % wise more likely to die in hospital remember the demographic of these people.
So you don't think I'm a heard hearted so and so.
My father was a bed blocker 93 went to care home died as a result of organ failure after catching Norovirus.
He had multiple health issues and again death to him was a release.
The term is Harvesting as I know now , see little chance of law suits happening but heyho who knows.
Its perhaps pertinent that my father shouldn't have caught Norovirus but how do stop a virus ( took 160 hrs to stop smallpox from effective vaccine)
Can you take a legal case out against nature.
More people die at present every day in Hospitals than care homes.

 

[Reiser99]

To play the devil's advocate % wise more likely to die in hospital remember the demographic of these people.
So you don't think I'm a heard hearted so and so.
My father was a bed blocker 93 went to care home died as a result of organ failure after catching Norovirus.
He had multiple health issues and again death to him was a release.
The term is Harvesting as I know now , see little chance of law suits happening but heyho who knows.
Its perhaps pertinent that my father shouldn't have caught Norovirus but how do stop a virus ( took 160 hrs to stop smallpox from effective vaccine)
Can you take a legal case out against nature.
More people die at present every day in Hospitals than care homes.

The issue is less about whether or not they would have died in hospital or even if it was necessary to free up bed spaces. The issue is that the government said care homes were a low risk when they weren't and so sent elderly people back there when it wasn't in fact safe. On top they failed to provide staff with adequate PPE and so in all probability the virus spread far more easily than it would have if the government had acted sooner. Yes some people would probably still have caught the virus, but clearly the situation was made worse by an incompetent government.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To play the devil's advocate % wise more likely to die in hospital remember the demographic of these people.
So you don't think I'm a heard hearted so and so.
My father was a bed blocker 93 went to care home died as a result of organ failure after catching Norovirus.
He had multiple health issues and again death to him was a release.
The term is Harvesting as I know now , see little chance of law suits happening but heyho who knows.
Its perhaps pertinent that my father shouldn't have caught Norovirus but how do stop a virus ( took 160 hrs to stop smallpox from effective vaccine)
Can you take a legal case out against nature.
More people die at present every day in Hospitals than care homes.

That's why I say damages will be low, financially his life wasn't worth a lot to put it bluntly. The foreseeability and causation is there for a successful civil case though in my opinion.

 

[RedruthRFC]

That's why I say damages will be low, financially his life wasn't worth a lot to put it bluntly. The foreseeability and causation is there for a successful civil case though in my opinion.

This makes sense to me, the NHS certainly seem to have a case to answer, but why don't the care home as well?

 

[duncanb]

That's why I say damages will be low, financially his life wasn't worth a lot to put it bluntly. The foreseeability and causation is there for a successful civil case though in my opinion.

I agree 100% just as a new virus that we are only learning now how to treat and deal with .
I feel 0% chance of successful claims however sad any death is what comes from nature is impossible to sue against in my opinion whatever actions were taken my wife has been in NHS for 29yrs trying to solve the bed blockers that only gets worse as medical science increases life span but unfortunately the physical mechanisms of the body cant cope with.
Sad as that is ,unfortunately that is real life day in day out covid or not.
Remember 2015 excess flu deaths not to dissimilar situation old people sent to care homes to free up beds this is not a first.

 

[duncanb]

The issue is less about whether or not they would have died in hospital or even if it was necessary to free up bed spaces. The issue is that the government said care homes were a low risk when they weren't and so sent elderly people back there when it wasn't in fact safe. On top they failed to provide staff with adequate PPE and so in all probability the virus spread far more easily than it would have if the government had acted sooner. Yes some people would probably still have caught the virus, but clearly the situation was made worse by an incompetent government.

Sorry to disagree from good lady no where is safe did you believe you were safe in street?
The demographic who went to care homes were people who were immobile, couldn't feed without help, wipe their bottoms drink without help , dress undressed this list goes on.
So as good lady says were would send them being hospital isn't place for them as they aren't sick
Cant be at home as cannot look after themselves
I don't envy my wifes job however well paid.
She asks what's your solution.
She said she isn't having a go just curious on your solution to biggest issue in Hospitals.

 

[RedruthRFC]

She asks what's your solution.

I know that the question wasn't addressed to me, but it seems to me that the answer would have been for care homes to be diligent in their duty of care to their clients and refuse entry to untested people coming from places with known infections. I don't understand why all the ire is directed at the government on this and little to none at the private companies who have been paid hansomely for years, only to fail catastrophically when the chips were down.

A hotel in my home town was converted to a "field care home", facilities like this would have been a much more sensible way of looking after people of unknown C19 status requiring specialist care.

 

[duncanb]

I know that the question wasn't addressed to me, but it seems to me that the answer would have been for care homes to be diligent in their duty of care to their clients and refuse entry to untested people coming from places with known infections. I don't understand why all the ire is directed at the government on this and little to none at the private companies who have been paid hansomely for years, only to fail catastrophically when the chips were down.

A hotel in my home town was converted to a "field care home", facilities like this would have been a much more sensible way of looking after people of unknown C19 status requiring specialist care.

As mrs duncanb says a worthwhile answer but who staffs as she said care home workers bank nurses etc all potential carriers.
With her dark sense of humour a better answer next time.
As a rugby supporter for 30 + yes I did try to get her sign up.
But she thinks looking at my ID most are in here words small boys other comment gets me banned.

 

[RedruthRFC]

As mrs duncanb says a worthwhile answer but who staffs as she said care home workers bank nurses etc all potential carriers.
With her dark sense of humour a better answer next time.
As a rugby supporter for 30 + yes I did try to get her sign up.
But she thinks looking at my ID most are in here words small boys other comment gets me banned.

She sounds like a lovely person! We may be getting closer to the root of the problem though - she sounds much more interested in finding problems than identifying solutions.