[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Bada-Bing!]

So food depot workers are exempt from self isolating if they get pinged as long as they pass a daily LFT.

School children as will as well when they return from school holidays.

Looks like a lot of trust to put on peeps to use LFTs properly and not deliberately try and produce false negative to get out of self isolating.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I saw this on one of my e-mails at work.

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As an organisations your employer's duty of care to safeguard the health, safety and wellbeing of their employees has not changed just because the Government says that people don't have to wear face coverings anymore. When making their decision, your client should consider the nature of the workforce and listen to individual concerns. There are likely to be some employees who can't wait not to have to wear a face covering anymore. However, as face coverings are worn to protect people around an individual rather than the wearer themselves, there are also likely to be a number of employees who are concerned about the implications of not wearing a face covering. For example, your client might have a lot of young staff who have not had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated yet, or vulnerable/extremely vulnerable staff who are concerned about colleagues not wearing face coverings.

Your client should review its coronavirus risk assessments in view of the changes. This will help them decide on which controls, such as the continued wearing of face coverings, might need to be retained. Then they should update their policy on face coverings in the workplace and communicate it to all staff, so employees know where they stand.

If they decide to make face coverings mandatory in the workplace, they should remember that some employees may continue to be exempt.

Alternatively, their policy may be that face coverings are no longer required but staff can wear a face covering if they want to, or that face coverings are required only in certain circumstances, such as meetings over a certain size, etc.

Your client should be prepared for possible resistance from whichever group has not got their preferred outcome. Employees should be expected to comply with workplace rules set by organisations. However, to manage any such resistance, your client should listen to individual circumstances and explain how these have been taken into account in your risk assessments.

Bear in mind that it's not just in the actual workplace that employees may be concerned; public transport may be a worry to some employees, if others are no longer wearing face coverings, especially at peak travel times.

In all, your client should Have a clear, reasonable policy and be prepared to justify their approach.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Got my first pfizer on Wednesday there. Few enough side effects but I couldn't get through a third of my rugby training yesterday evening.

Next one in four weeks and a very encouraging pick up in rollout here, everyone over 21 getting their first jabs.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Got my first pfizer on Wednesday there. Few enough side effects but I couldn't get through a third of my rugby training yesterday evening.

Next one in four weeks and a very encouraging pick up in rollout here, everyone over 21 getting their first jabs.

That's interesting that you're getting your second dose in 4 weeks time. I recall that is in line with Pfizer's recommendations before, but see:

Pfizer vaccine second dose has ‘sweet spot’ after eight weeks, UK scientists say

Longer schedule led to more Covid antibodies and higher proportion of helper T-cells, supporting immune memory – researchers

www.theguardian.com

 

[Groundhog]

I got my J&J jab last week after the government opened up the jab for young people who want to get it done fast in local pharmacies. I managed to wiggle in early through nepotism like a tonne of people, but nearly everyone I know my age has been done now or will be done soon on J&J if they want. Portal is now open for the two jab vaccines if thats preferred as per Alpha above. Our takeup rate is super good for the vaccine and even though our cases are bad, I'm hoping it works out

Vaccine process was so fine for me. Showed up at a local pharmacy I'd never been to at 9:30, was jabbed within 5 minutes and then on my way home after 20. Pretty much zero side effects and I got my covid cert that lets me travel/eat indoors via email yesterday! Relatively painless process.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's interesting that you're getting your second dose in 4 weeks time. I recall that is in line with Pfizer's recommendations before, but see:

Pfizer vaccine second dose has ‘sweet spot’ after eight weeks, UK scientists say

Longer schedule led to more Covid antibodies and higher proportion of helper T-cells, supporting immune memory – researchers

www.theguardian.com

Wouldn't be listening to them UK scientists over here!

 

[Which Tyler]

That's interesting that you're getting your second dose in 4 weeks time. I recall that is in line with Pfizer's recommendations before, but see:

Pfizer vaccine second dose has ‘sweet spot’ after eight weeks, UK scientists say

Longer schedule led to more Covid antibodies and higher proportion of helper T-cells, supporting immune memory – researchers

www.theguardian.com

Pfizer has always and only recommended 3 weeks.
Because that's what they tested.

Any other time frame is untested by Pfizer, and therefore they do not recommend it - that's up to public health officials who can use evidence other than the original pre-approval trials

 

[Reiser99]

So food depot workers are exempt from self isolating if they get pinged as long as they pass a daily LFT.

School children as will as well when they return from school holidays.

Looks like a lot of trust to put on peeps to use LFTs properly and not deliberately try and produce false negative to get out of self isolating.

This is the LFTs that American authorities told their people to stop using as they were unreliable.

Some interesting data.

NHS website (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...oronavirus-tests-if-you-do-not-have-symptoms/) says they are 99.9% accurate.
"Research shows rapid tests are 99.9% accurate. This means the chance of getting a false-positive result (where the result shows as positive but is actually negative) is extremely low."

However this only applies to people who don't have the virus and the test showing positive. The numbers for people who are infected but test negative are very different.

How reliable are lateral flow COVID-19 tests?

It is estimated that around one-third of people with COVID-19 do not have symptoms and could be spreading the virus unknowingly. To help tackle this, the government has rolled out rapid lateral flow antigen tests that can detect cases in under 30 minutes, meaning those who have a positive test...

pharmaceutical-journal.com

Covid-19: Lateral flow tests are better at identifying people with symptoms, finds Cochrane review

Rapid antigen (lateral flow) tests are better at identifying covid-19 infection in people with symptoms than in those with none, although the diagnostic accuracy of different brands of tests varies widely, a Cochrane review has found.1 The review’s lead author criticised the UK government for...

www.bmj.com

They found that in people with confirmed COVID‐19, antigen tests correctly identified COVID‐19 infection in an average of 72% (ranging from 34% to 88%) of people with symptoms, compared with 58% of people without symptoms. In addition, they found that the tests were most accurate when used in the first week after symptoms developed.

So according to this almost half of people with the virus and no symptoms will be given a negative result and 1/4 of those with symptoms as well. Yay!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Pfizer has always and only recommended 3 weeks.
Because that's what they tested.

Any other time frame is untested by Pfizer, and therefore they do not recommend it - that's up to public health officials who can use evidence other than the original pre-approval trials

But also there is the case that Pfizer have tested it on a smaller sample or that is based on their laboratory sample, rather than real world. There is now substantial data now from the likes of Israel and here in the UK that the 8 week gap is more optimal. But yes, this is here in the UK and we can't control the gap in other countries.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

double

 

[Kiwiwomble]

New Zealand shuts Australia travel bubble as Sydney’s Covid outbreak worsens

Jacinda Ardern pauses flights for eight weeks as her health chief says the spread in NSW was ‘clearly not under control’

www.theguardian.com

….we had flights booked back to nz next weekend

 

[Which Tyler]

This is the LFTs that American authorities told their people to stop using as they were unreliable.

Some interesting data.

NHS website (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...oronavirus-tests-if-you-do-not-have-symptoms/) says they are 99.9% accurate.
"Research shows rapid tests are 99.9% accurate. This means the chance of getting a false-positive result (where the result shows as positive but is actually negative) is extremely low."

However this only applies to people who don't have the virus and the test showing positive. The numbers for people who are infected but test negative are very different.

How reliable are lateral flow COVID-19 tests?

It is estimated that around one-third of people with COVID-19 do not have symptoms and could be spreading the virus unknowingly. To help tackle this, the government has rolled out rapid lateral flow antigen tests that can detect cases in under 30 minutes, meaning those who have a positive test...

pharmaceutical-journal.com

Covid-19: Lateral flow tests are better at identifying people with symptoms, finds Cochrane review

Rapid antigen (lateral flow) tests are better at identifying covid-19 infection in people with symptoms than in those with none, although the diagnostic accuracy of different brands of tests varies widely, a Cochrane review has found.1 The review’s lead author criticised the UK government for...

www.bmj.com

They found that in people with confirmed COVID‐19, antigen tests correctly identified COVID‐19 infection in an average of 72% (ranging from 34% to 88%) of people with symptoms, compared with 58% of people without symptoms. In addition, they found that the tests were most accurate when used in the first week after symptoms developed.

So according to this almost half of people with the virus and no symptoms will be given a negative result and 1/4 of those with symptoms as well. Yay!

Yeah, we've discussed it before (a while ago, and a couple of times) the specificity has been generally fine; the sensitivity has been pretty laughable.
I've always held that you need at least 2 negatives to be remotely confident that your uninfected, preferably 3.

But also there is the case that Pfizer have tested it on a smaller sample or that is based on their laboratory sample, rather than real world. There is now substantial data now from the likes of Israel and here in the UK that the 8 week gap is more optimal. But yes, this is here in the UK and we can't control the gap in other countries.

And that's why public health officials aren't (and shouldn't be) bound by the manufacturer's recommendations

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Scottish hospitality Group proposing below to be implemented. PCR tests where I live can cost between £100 and £200 depending how fast you need the results back.

 

[RedruthRFC]

GPs sending vaccine doses back as demand slows to a trickle — The Times and The Sunday Times

Unused vaccine doses are being sent back by GPs as demand for jabs slows to a fraction of recent levels. Doses that are nearing their expiry date are being returned to NHS England in an effort to ensure they are used, as vaccine centres increasingly amass excess supplies. Recent days have seen...

apple.news

Sorry for the weird bump, but I just read an article that pertains to this, so dug it up. Does the article say which vaccines are being sent back? If it's AZ, it's understandable - most people yet to receive a dose can't be given it.

Apparently the UK backed 8 horses (different vaccines) at the outset. 5 are still stuck in the stalls, one (Moderna) is limping towards the first fence, one (AZ) got off to a flyer, but soon started blowing up; rather than trading out and moving their money onto the runner on the bridle (Pfizer) our government did nothing. Of the original order of 40m doses of Pfizer, 20m have been administered as first doses, meaning the remainder of stocks will be needed to provide the second dose to those who have received their first. While our government were twiddling their thumbs, the EU placed an order for 600m Pfizer, before the government eventually ordered 60m for use in the autumn. All of this means that until Moderna gets up an running properly or one of the horses stuck in the stalls gets moving, how are we meant to vaccinate anyone under 40?

If any of you bump into Boris, maybe you could ask if our vaccine programme is still a massive success. Germany are currently vaccinating 12-17 year olds while in 6 weeks time, ours will be condemned to play Russian roulette with long covid bullets in the chamber and will pour petrol on the embers of the pingdemic fire.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Sorry for the weird bump, but I just read an article that pertains to this, so dug it up. Does the article say which vaccines are being sent back? If it's AZ, it's understandable - most people yet to receive a dose can't be given it.

Apparently the UK backed 8 horses (different vaccines) at the outset. 5 are still stuck in the stalls, one (Moderna) is limping towards the first fence, one (AZ) got off to a flyer, but soon started blowing up; rather than trading out and moving their money onto the runner on the bridle (Pfizer) our government did nothing. Of the original order of 40m doses of Pfizer, 20m have been administered as first doses, meaning the remainder of stocks will be needed to provide the second dose to those who have received their first. While our government were twiddling their thumbs, the EU placed an order for 600m Pfizer, before the government eventually ordered 60m for use in the autumn. All of this means that until Moderna gets up an running properly or one of the horses stuck in the stalls gets moving, how are we meant to vaccinate anyone under 40?

If any of you bump into Boris, maybe you could ask if our vaccine programme is still a massive success. Germany are currently vaccinating 12-17 year olds while in 6 weeks time, ours will be condemned to play Russian roulette with long covid bullets in the chamber and will pour petrol on the embers of the pingdemic fire.

The article does not refer to which vaccines were sent back.

 

[Reiser99]

New Covid variant under investigation in the UK, PHE says

No evidence to suggest it causes more severe illness, PHE says

www.independent.co.uk

Well that didn't take long. Even if this one doesn't become a variant of concern the fact that it has already mutated is very concerning.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

New Covid variant under investigation in the UK, PHE says

No evidence to suggest it causes more severe illness, PHE says

www.independent.co.uk

Well that didn't take long. Even if this one doesn't become a variant of concern the fact that it has already mutated is very concerning.

As Delta is 99% of cases out in England and Wales atm it is likely to be mutated version Of it.

Ironic seeing Delta was was likely a mutated version of the Alpha variant first detected here, which was sent to India in the first place, only to resend it back out to the world again.

 

[saulan]

I finally started getting into a routine after starting a new job/commuting again....then two weeks isolation

Does this mean you get to watch the Lions game after all then?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Does this mean you get to watch the Lions game after all then?

Nope,
Ends at 23:59 tonight, so I'll be somewhere in Birmingham when the games on

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Sage adviser claims ministers trying to get as many as possible infected with Covid

Exclusive: Prof Robert West says rhetoric about caution is ‘a way of putting blame on public’

www.theguardian.com