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[COVID-19] General Discussion
- Thread starter Amiga500
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Are we just not delaying the inevitable though? It's OK locking down etc but the virus is going to go through the population at some point as a vaccine is still way off.
At some point we are just going to have to accept that Covid is part of life and get on with things.
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Exactly, it's like déjà vu all over again
Yup who gives a **** about all the people it's killing...and will kill.
What we have to accept is that it will change change our way of life for the foreseeable future and things like lockdowns to keep the numbers down are here stay. If you make them regular and short you can control the numbers.
Or you know do what New Zealand did and stamp it out entirely.
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Err hospitals being overrun by COVID patients ? And other illnesses not being treated, screenings for cancer and operations being cancelled?
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How many millions are you prepared to see die for the sake of just letting it rip through the country, overwhelming the NHs, denying life-saving care to further hundreds of thousands?
How would you feel if a vaccine was approved a couple of months after this wildfire of infection?
Why do you have more confidence in your opinion versus that of amorety unified scientific community?
Herd immunity is the strategy (as far as there is an actual strategy beyond finding someone else to blame), and has been since March; it's just political suicide to admit it.
The key is to keep the numbers below NHS capacity, so that we can treat people infected, and preferably also treat people with medical issues other than Covid (though our government seems to be if print that demographic - probably because people dying now won't be voting in 4 years time).
The higher you let the numbers build up to, the more stringent the measures you then need to take to get them back under control, and the longer those measures need to last for. Which then feeds into civil obedience as people push back against harsher measures.
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Other illness are not being treated now. My uncle has prostate cancer and has had his treatment pushed back again. The emergency hospitals haven't been used yet.
The population is also starting to kick back and there isn't the police resource to deal with it. There was a massive street party in Nottingham the other night. Hundreds of students drunk and dancing together.
We have to get the economy back to normal at some point or people will just ignore any restrictions anyway.
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Millions? Oh get a grip.
Risk is part of life. Covid has increased the risk but we are going to have to accept it at some point. We cannot just all sit at home and hope it blows over because it won't. As for New Zealand, at some point this will go through New Zealand. It's been spared because of it geography nothing more.
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Well, that's one way to answer a question I suppose - acknowledge 1 of 3, ignore it and indulge in an insult instead.
Or if you'd like some basic maths.
We're on or around 1 Million people who've been infected with Covid-19 death toll sits somewhere around 60,000
To reach herd immunity, we need approximately 60% of the population to be immune - which is 36 Million - realistically, more than that as that assumes an even spread of the immunity, which doesn't happen when using infection rather than vaccination.
36 x 60k = 2.16 Million deaths - and that's assuming the NHS is not overloaded at any point in time. If that happens, expect the death rate to increase by an order of magnitude for whatever period of time it's overwhelmed for.
Of course, if you think it's all a hoax, or "just" the flu - then it really isn't me who needs to get a grip.
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When you uncle dies of continued delayed treatment to his prostate cancer as hospitals have to run strictly to prevent infection or COVID due to his vulnerability due to the drugs he is probably taking. Come back to us.
If I lose my sister who is vulnerable because people advocated a just let it run through approach, I tell you one thing I won't be the forgiving type.
If I lose my sister who is vulnerable because people advocated a just let it run through approach, I tell you one thing I won't be the forgiving type.
What we need is a decent track and trace system where as soon as one person tests positive anyone who they have been in close contact with isolates and gets a test asap, so that either they test positive and the cycle continues or they test negative and get back to work. We don't have that instead we have an system that isn't working and a testing demand that is too high for the capacity. On top testing is taking too long to give a response. It needed to be in place before we came out of the first lockdown and it wasn't, now cases are too high and if it continues it will overwhelm the NHS.
The virus, the economy and other NHS treatments can all be supported and made to work together, but only when you've got a good system in place to deal with the spread of the virus, we don't and that is purely down to the government and their decisions. We need a new lockdown to get levels back down again and get test and trace working properly so when it ends we can keep on top of the virus
As for immunity it's been proven that there is no long term natural immunity and antibodies decline over time. The only solution to immunity is a vaccine and even then could well be like the flu vaccine that needs to be topped up.
The virus, the economy and other NHS treatments can all be supported and made to work together, but only when you've got a good system in place to deal with the spread of the virus, we don't and that is purely down to the government and their decisions. We need a new lockdown to get levels back down again and get test and trace working properly so when it ends we can keep on top of the virus
As for immunity it's been proven that there is no long term natural immunity and antibodies decline over time. The only solution to immunity is a vaccine and even then could well be like the flu vaccine that needs to be topped up.
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I am sorry to hear about your uncle.
I got cancer last August. Luckily I had private medical via my work and got operated within 2 days of diagnosis. And that was before the pandemic. But still need to go for regular testing - blood tests and MRI.
My oncologist tried to keep delaying my appointment in May and then June's before I put my foot down and said no to him that I would keep to the appointment and he relented.
I can't imagine what it's like for the NHS. Their resources and having ICU beds stacked again with COVID patients is going to make it even worse for other patients. Excess deaths from the Knock on effect of COVID is also going to be a killer.
If this second wave is even worse than the first one then we will need all that extra capacity in the NHS and the nightingales as possible. It's all about preparation. And just learning to live with it without all people taking the precautions is getting us to the same point again like in March.
And now the population is going to kick back even more now a likely month lockdown is coming into force.
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Talk of universal basic income getting momentum.
I don't see this gov doing it though.
I don't see this gov doing it though.
Yup your pretty much going to have to have a Labour one it'll be interesting to see if Starmer does have it but I suspect your looking at it as a second term policy. I think it will happen someday but 2030's or 40's before it does.
The big issue point is what do you set it as. Then also how do you find it with changing how businesses pay their employees. The idea is sound but there quite a few links to work out. You also have to sell it to the masses in a way that doesn't make you sound like a loon.
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Look I get it. We have to live with this and face masks and 2 metres etc is going to be the norm that doesn't bother me but there is risk in life and at some point covid has to become part of that risk. Growing up I had measles and mumps, most of the kids in my school did. If I remember rightly one kids ended up disabled from measles. The last 30 years we in Western societies have had the privilege of not worrying about virus/diseases etc apart from HIV. The rest of the world on the other hand has had to deal with them and they tend to be doing a lot better during this pandemic. A pandemic which had effectively crashed the economies of most of Europe and North America. I just don't think we can avoid this virus taking its eventual toll. I was talking to my ex the other day who's Polish and during the first out break Poland coped very well, no panic buying, social distancing etc but this time it's a lot worse even though the same control measures are in place. New Zealand is being given of an example of great virus control when it's really geography that's spared it the worst so far, eventually it will have to deal with it.
It's a **** situation but pretending we can stop this virus by locking down and knackering up the economy isn't going to work. The more people out of work the less tax revenue to fund the NHS, the more unemployment the bigger equality will become and more health problems associated with poverty will have to be dealt. If people are vulnerable then they need to take steps to protect themselves but the rest of the population needs to carry on as best it can.
'take steps to protect themselves'
Thats great until you actually engage some braincells. My sister works in a schools, fine don't work? has two young children, lock them up with her? What about her husband's job that requires him to see people? What do people do who want visit her after the virus is running rampant so the risk I could pass it on increases. How long does the never ending lockdown go for these people?
It's a completely callous approach but I suppose you get a relatively normal life.
Thats great until you actually engage some braincells. My sister works in a schools, fine don't work? has two young children, lock them up with her? What about her husband's job that requires him to see people? What do people do who want visit her after the virus is running rampant so the risk I could pass it on increases. How long does the never ending lockdown go for these people?
It's a completely callous approach but I suppose you get a relatively normal life.
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I would have thought a distraction from Paolo Garbisi scoring 35 points on ye would be welcomed!
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You don't my life and its far from normal I'm currently on my third job since the new year, elderly vulnerable parents and an ex with a serious heath condition which has caused a number of problems with the kids etc.
Fact is life is going to be difficult for people but that's the situation we are in and we have to suck it up at some point
