Conrad Smith lenghty downtime? head knocks, recovery position

[Larksea]

bloody nasty ko for conrad smith. I recon this will see him have a long downtime, surely rule him out of the test series and could even see him take an early start to that much talked about sabbatical

I also have a major issue with other player grabbing downed players and tossing them in the "recovery position" it's become a regular thing since Tana Umaga won a fair play award after he did it for a welsh player that Jerry Collins had flattened.

But these are not passed out teenage girls. Conrad Smiths major concern was a serious head, neck or spine injury and he was far better lying flat on his back waiting for the medical team to arrive but then a fellow team mate comes along and just kind of tosses him on his side without even trying to support his head and neck and restrict movement.

Am I right? And if so shouldn't someone tell the players? Send a memo out about it or something get the team doctors to talk to the players for 5min.

or maybe my first aid training is out of date

 

[nickdnz]

I think Conrad Smith will be back before Super Rugby finishes. Everything seems to be speculation that I've read atm.

Agree that with head injuries like Conrad Smith's its safer to leave it to the medical team. Umaga put Collin Charvis in recovery position because he was K.O'd and there was a risk he could swallow his mouth guard - but with the way Smith went it, it looked like his neck could have been in danger more than just a streight sholder to the chin.

 

[Larksea]

I really can't think of a good example at all for putting a player in their side like that, they aren't going to swallow their mouth guard and it can be taken out rather than flipping the player, my understanding is the recovery position is more for when vomiting occurs (hence the drunk teenage girl reference )

in any situation like that as long as the player is breathing then #1 priority should be head and spinal injury precautions, flipping a guy on his side should be a big no no.

 

[nickdnz]

To be fair - if you've ever been concussed or had a big head knock - your body goes into shock and you often will vomit.

 

[Larksea]

To be fair - if you've ever been concussed or had a big head knock - your body goes into shock and you often will vomit.

Often? it is a possibility but how often do you actually see it?

 

[big ginger 8]

I really can't think of a good example at all for putting a player in their side like that, they aren't going to swallow their mouth guard and it can be taken out rather than flipping the player, my understanding is the recovery position is more for when vomiting occurs (hence the drunk teenage girl reference )

in any situation like that as long as the player is breathing then #1 priority should be head and spinal injury precautions, flipping a guy on his side should be a big no no.

John Hayes put Ronan O'Gara in it in a match against Scotland which by all accounts was the right thing to do.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

John Hayes put Ronan O'Gara in it in a match against Scotland which by all accounts was the right thing to do.

Because ROG is a drunk teenage girl?

 

[Larksea]

John Hayes put Ronan O'Gara in it in a match against Scotland which by all accounts was the right thing to do.

why?

Was it really? Was he vomiting?

I think most people think it's a good idea but it's not.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Was that when ROG swallowed his tongue? Seems the right thing to do in that case.

I've seen quite a few concussions have people vomiting - not so many in pro-rugby though (think I've only seen one, to be honest).
Do agree with your first point - you see the urgency in the medics to keep the head/kneck perfectly still when they get onto the pitch, they can't be too happy having them thrown around by the players.

 

[Larksea]

people can't swallow their tongue it's an old wives tale kind of thing.

 

[Gena_ZA]

"Hurricanes captain Conrad Smith has been ruled out of his team's match against the Cheetahs this weekend but he will remain with the team in South Africa."

 

[tenpm]

people can't swallow their tongue it's an old wives tale kind of thing.

Yeah, but it can block the airway and prevent breathing. Of course, that shouldn't be too much of a problem in professional games, since the medics are there in a matter of seconds.

It was good to see ReUnion advise against moving the injured player in tonight's show, although the other point that they made (change the law so that a pass that travels forward is a forward pass) was utter rubbish.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

people can't swallow their tongue it's an old wives tale kind of thing.

Well yeah, but as Nemu says it rolls back and blocks the air way - hence the risk for people having fits etc.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Agreed, epilepsy sufferers have a real threat of suffocation and the first thing they teach you is to roll a person on his side

 

[dasNdanger]

Well yeah, but as Nemu says it rolls back and blocks the air way - hence the risk for people having fits etc.

I thought it was also a precaution to roll them over so they don't asphyxiate in case they vomit.

Just getting around to watching this match in full (I am so behind in last weekend's games!). It's terrible to see a man go down like that...I hope he makes a good recovery. I can't say 'fast' because I don't want them (or him) to rush it, I just want to see him healthy and in playing form when he's safe to play again.


das

 

[Larksea]

Agreed, epilepsy sufferers have a real threat of suffocation and the first thing they teach you is to roll a person on his side

we are not talking about epileptics, we are talking about rugby players with potential head and spine injuries

in terms of making sure someone can/is breathing what you do is actually check and monitor a persons breathing and airways. you don't just flip them one their side.

 

[Gena_ZA]

we are not talking about epileptics, we are talking about rugby players with potential head and spine injuries

in terms of making sure someone can/is breathing what you do is actually check and monitor a persons breathing and airways. you don't just flip them one their side.

Can be associated with a fit as well due to a head injury, still applicable in my opinion
If it was such a big case it would have been drilled into the guys by the coaching staff not to flip o player over, clearly it is not

 

[Shaggy]

I really can't think of a good example at all for putting a player in their side like that, they aren't going to swallow their mouth guard and it can be taken out rather than flipping the player, my understanding is the recovery position is more for when vomiting occurs (hence the drunk teenage girl reference )

in any situation like that as long as the player is breathing then #1 priority should be head and spinal injury precautions, flipping a guy on his side should be a big no no.

Yes, you probably should take your original suggestion and update your first aid Larksea ... the number one priority is always to prevent the patient from dying, so not breathing takes precedence over spinal injury etc ... he brain can only last 3 to 6 minutes before permanent damage occurs.

Having actually seen someone die on the sports field from swallowing their tongue/their tongue blocking their airway, I know what my choice would be if it was me having to make the choice.

Of course, you should determine that they aren't breathing first, and support the head to minimalise the chance of spinal injury

 

[nickdnz]

To be fair though - the medical team is usually on the field after a player is down within 10-15 seconds. I agree that as a general rule players should call for the medical team rather than flipping a player on his side, especially if it is a spinal injry et.

 

[Larksea]

Yes, you probably should take your original suggestion and update your first aid Larksea ... the number one priority is always to prevent the patient from dying, so not breathing takes precedence over spinal injury etc ... he brain can only last 3 to 6 minutes before permanent damage occurs.

Having actually seen someone die on the sports field from swallowing their tongue/their tongue blocking their airway, I know what my choice would be if it was me having to make the choice.

Of course, you should determine that they aren't breathing first, and support the head to minimalise the chance of spinal injury

I said: "as long as the player is breathing then #1 priority should be head and spinal injury precautions"

vital signs are obviously come first but if the player is not breathing then flipping them on their side is not the solution anyway

even when checking and dealing with vital signs head and spine injuries need to be accounted for if there is a chance they are present. you can check and clear a persons airway while they are on their back, you would have one person keeping the players head & neck stable while the other checks airways & breathing and clears if needed