Connacht v Cardiff Blues

[dullonien]

The Ospreys' poor form has nothing to do with their lack of depth. It's down to the fact that they are playing poorly. Doesn't seem to matter if they have Lee Burne, Alun-Wyn Jones, Phillips etc. etc. playing, they're just playing with no confidence or control. The Ospreys probably have the most talented squad in the ML, with quality back-up options almost everywhere. Not that it seems to make a difference! The Blues also have some big strength in depth, although it's obvious that they are missing a quality 10. If we have a look at their locks, ***o, Bradley Davies, Deiniol Jones and James Down. That's three very good players and a capable young backup. In the centres, Blues have Roberts, Shanklin, Laulala, Dafydd James, Gareth Thomas, Dafydd Hewitt and Gavin Evans, that's some serious depth. I could carry on, wingers for example : Tom James, Halfpenny, Mustoe, Czekaj and Gareth Thomas, Jamie Roberts, Dafydd James all able to cover.

From what I've seen, I haven't been bowled over by Munster's or Leinster's second strings and youngsters, although they are coming through in a winning and settled environment. For instance, I haven't seen a huge amount from the highly rated Felix Jones for Munster, with the likes of another youngster Daniel Evans looking a much better prospect for the Scarlets.

I think there's very little between the quality of squads for the Welsh regions and Irish provinces. The difference is that Munster and Leinster have won majour competitions, namely the HC. They seem to be used to winning, and that is rubbing off on the youngsters and fringe players.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Sep 20 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

what? those are just the Ospreys locks mate.[/b]

I know but all are good enough for international level too

 

[feicarsinn]

Which kind of negates your point, no?

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Sep 20 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The Ospreys' poor form has nothing to do with their lack of depth. It's down to the fact that they are playing poorly. Doesn't seem to matter if they have Lee Burne, Alun-Wyn Jones, Phillips etc. etc. playing, they're just playing with no confidence or control. The Ospreys probably have the most talented squad in the ML, with quality back-up options almost everywhere. Not that it seems to make a difference! The Blues also have some big strength in depth, although it's obvious that they are missing a quality 10. If we have a look at their locks, ***o, Bradley Davies, Deiniol Jones and James Down. That's three very good players and a capable young backup. In the centres, Blues have Roberts, Shanklin, Laulala, Dafydd James, Gareth Thomas, Dafydd Hewitt and Gavin Evans, that's some serious depth. I could carry on, wingers for example : Tom James, Halfpenny, Mustoe, Czekaj and Gareth Thomas, Jamie Roberts, Dafydd James all able to cover.

From what I've seen, I haven't been bowled over by Munster's or Leinster's second strings and youngsters, although they are coming through in a winning and settled environment. For instance, I haven't seen a huge amount from the highly rated Felix Jones for Munster, with the likes of another youngster Daniel Evans looking a much better prospect for the Scarlets.

I think there's very little between the quality of squads for the Welsh regions and Irish provinces. The difference is that Munster and Leinster have won majour competitions, namely the HC. They seem to be used to winning, and that is rubbing off on the youngsters and fringe players.[/b]

I agree that there nothing between back-lines and looking at it from that view maybe that is difference the fact Munster and Leinster have won major trophies but trust me I first to acknowledge if a welsh region wins H'Cup it wont just be deserved but it will push Welsh club rugby to new levels but must disagree about Cardiff having talented depht in squad they not up with The O's

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Sep 20 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Which kind of negates your point, no?[/b]

In a way just an opinion i have lads not saying I right or wrong

But yeah i will agree I did not realize and been honest forgot about Bates
but i am basing views also on having watched Munster and Leinster on weekly basis and Welsh regions on lesser viewings

 

[dullonien]

You're comparing all the quality locks from all the Irish provinces to those of just the Ospreys? To list all the Welsh Regions quality locks, the list is:

Alun-Wyn Jones
Ian Evans
Ian Gough

Paul ***o
Bradley Davies
Deiniol Jones

Lou Rees
Domonic Day

Luke Charteris
Robert Sidoli
Grant Webb

I'm sure I've missed one from the Scarlets.

Edit: of course there's probably a few more from the Irish Provinces too.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Sep 20 2009, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You're comparing all the quality locks from all the Irish provinces to those of just the Ospreys? To list all the Welsh Regions quality locks, the list is:

Alun-Wyn Jones
Ian Evans
Ian Gough

Paul ***o
Bradley Davies
Deiniol Jones

Lou Rees
Domonic Day

Luke Charteris
Robert Sidoli
Grant Webb

I'm sure I've missed one from the Scarlets.

Edit: of course there's probably a few more from the Irish Provinces too.[/b]

Isn't ***o a new zealander but out of all them i think really in what is needed are quality of Ospreys locks.
***o is good but still not sure of others. Haven't seen enough of scarlets guys yets and Dragons are good but part of me still thinks Sidoli has had his time and Charteris still don't know

 

[dullonien]

Yes, ***o is a NZer, but were commenting on strength of the regions and provinces aren't we? That means it doesn't matter where they are from. The other two locks at the Blues are top quality, both Deiniol Jones and Bradley Davies were pushing hard for Wales spots last season. Deiniol's possibly a little old to really worth bothering with for Wales, think he's around 30. Bradley Davies is considered a future international star, and looked good on the summer tour. Both Scarlet's locks are young and are looking very good so far this season. One, if not both will be in contention for Wales squad places this season. At the Dragons, Charteris I'm still not sure about, but he's improving, whilst I agree with you about Sidoli, but he seems to have made a positive start to the season. Grant Webb is a backrower, oops.......... I meant McDounald, but he isn't that good really.

What this all comes down to though, is the quality of the Welsh regions squads are there. Scarlet's and especially Dragons do struggle with their backup players, but so do Ulster and Conacht. The Ospreys and Blues have huge strength in depth, arguably the Blues have more strength than the Ospreys this season. And of course the same can be said of Munster and Leinster.

 

[MunsterMan]

This thread gives me headaches.

 

[bristol-iain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Sep 20 2009, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

This thread gives me headaches.[/b]

I think thats known as a "threadache" in medical terms.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 20 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

we're overrating some of the youth.[/b]

Thats cause we actually have some Youth to rate.

Wasnt so long ago when we simply didnt have ANY talent coming through. Now Leinster and Munster are putting out a B team and your seeing some impressive performances from players the rest of the planet wouldnt recognise at all.

There is an element of Optimism alright, but there is some real quality coming through. The question is how much of it will falter, and how much of it will come right through as expected.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Sep 20 2009, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yes, ***o is a NZer, but were commenting on strength of the regions and provinces aren't we? That means it doesn't matter where they are from. The other two locks at the Blues are top quality, both Deiniol Jones and Bradley Davies were pushing hard for Wales spots last season. Deiniol's possibly a little old to really worth bothering with for Wales, think he's around 30. Bradley Davies is considered a future international star, and looked good on the summer tour. Both Scarlet's locks are young and are looking very good so far this season. One, if not both will be in contention for Wales squad places this season. At the Dragons, Charteris I'm still not sure about, but he's improving, whilst I agree with you about Sidoli, but he seems to have made a positive start to the season. Grant Webb is a backrower, oops.......... I meant McDounald, but he isn't that good really.

What this all comes down to though, is the quality of the Welsh regions squads are there. Scarlet's and especially Dragons do struggle with their backup players, but so do Ulster and Conacht. The Ospreys and Blues have huge strength in depth, arguably the Blues have more strength than the Ospreys this season. And of course the same can be said of Munster and Leinster.[/b]

True except of course Ulster & Connacht shouldn't really lose many just 1 or 2 but must say i very impressed with Scarlets but I know Cardiff have probably a big squad but not much quality in reserve as I think Nicky Robinson loss is major as Ceri Sweeney is not a shadow on him and that young Norton-Knight not yet ready.
And as we all know a team needs an influential fly-half

 

[bgrugbyfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 20 2009, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

True except of course Ulster & Connacht shouldn't really lose many just 1 or 2 but must say i very impressed with Scarlets but I know Cardiff have probably a big squad but not much quality in reserve as I think Nicky Robinson loss is major as Ceri Sweeney is not a shadow on him and that young Norton-Knight not yet ready.
And as we all know a team needs an influential fly-half[/b]

Spot on. Why we, the fans, can figure this out but the powers that be at Cardiff can't is exasperating. The season is already looking dire and it's just started. It frankly shouldn't come down to the injured internationals coming back to win a game that should have been a comfortable win. We need a decent FH to control the game and we just don't have one.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bgrugbyfan @ Sep 21 2009, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 20 2009, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True except of course Ulster & Connacht shouldn't really lose many just 1 or 2 but must say i very impressed with Scarlets but I know Cardiff have probably a big squad but not much quality in reserve as I think Nicky Robinson loss is major as Ceri Sweeney is not a shadow on him and that young Norton-Knight not yet ready.
And as we all know a team needs an influential fly-half[/b]

Spot on. Why we, the fans, can figure this out but the powers that be at Cardiff can't is exasperating. The season is already looking dire and it's just started. It frankly shouldn't come down to the injured internationals coming back to win a game that should have been a comfortable win. We need a decent FH to control the game and we just don't have one.
[/b][/quote]

Exactly like has Dai Young lost it like if we all are honest Sweeney around long enough for people to see he not the player Cardiff need. We all seen a big part of Cardiff's game was based on half-back partnership controlling the game which let the likes of Roberts, Halfpenny etc get space and well we all know what they capable of.
Also is it just me or is Ben Blair even looking bit frustrated at whole thing like even if ye could get a Carlos Spencer type fly half because well Blair and Halfpenny can kick as well as any on their day

 

[Bluemoon]

I would take Carlos Spencer in a flash I really would. Although saying that, a few seasons ago a certain Dai Flannagan had a few fantastic performances against an in form Stade Francais and some nice league appearances. Why hes being sent down to club level for Ceri Sweeny I have no idea.

The Blues are suffering from No.10 fever. Any of you ospreys fancy lending us Dan Biggar for a few games ?

With no wins to build on there is little confidence and its all getting a bit desperate. It is a little early to be damming the season already though. I think the next couple of weeks, particularly Harlequins at home in the HC will make or break the season.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bluemoon @ Sep 21 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I would take Carlos Spencer in a flash I really would. Although saying that, a few seasons ago a certain Dai Flannagan had a few fantastic performances against an in form Stade Francais and some nice league appearances. Why hes being sent down to club level for Ceri Sweeny I have no idea.

The Blues are suffering from No.10 fever. Any of you ospreys fancy lending us Dan Biggar for a few games ?

With no wins to build on there is little confidence and its all getting a bit desperate. It is a little early to be damming the season already though. I think the next couple of weeks, particularly Harlequins at home in the HC will make or break the season.[/b]

Been honest can't see ye having as good a year as last year due to the #10 problem as it seems Dai Young is stubborn anyway and will stick with Sweeney which is pity because players like M.Williams and Gethin deserve to be at business end of things and it just wont happen with sweeney in fact could be battle to stay in H'Cup if Connacht pick up few more valuable points because their aim is H'Cup due to fact their budget jumps alot more than expected i know this for fact.

 

[An Tarbh]

One win doesn't suddenly make Connacht contenders to qualify for Europe, they've beaten better teams than the Blues and still finished bottom, can't see it being any different for them this season, if the Dragons keep their form up though the battle for the Welsh European spots will certainly be very interesting.

 

[dullonien]

Some excellent comments by you munstermuffin, + repped. It's quite true that it doesn't matter how much quality a team has in certain positions, if one of the main positions (10) doesn't have any atall. This is where the Blues find themselves at the moment. Sweeney has never cut it in my view, he's had a few decent games for Wales (v NZ in the 2003 wc immediately jumps to mind), but that was just about 7 years ago! Norton-Knight isn't even a bloody young player, he's 25 ffs. Imo that maybe shows that he's not made of the right stuff to handle the pressures of the 10 spot at this level. We'll see in the next few weeks, when he's had a few more games under his belt, myabe he'll find some form and blow everyone away (as he did v Wales in the 07 wc)!

I agree whole heartedly with Bluemoon. Why hasn't Dai Flannagan been handed an opportunity when the other choices are clearly struggling? He played some very good games last year when Nicky and Sweeney were injured, and not just small games, some vital HC ones. His strength is in the way he controls a game, he doesn't have to worry about kicking to the posts with Blair and Halfpenny behind him, so why the f**k hasn't he been played? He's still talked about as a good potential player, but he was playing the the Konica Minolta cup against a Neath team with James Hook at fly-half. Hook's gone on to claim 33 caps for Wales, wheras Flannagan has had precious few starts for the Blues. Potential can never be realised if he doesn't get a chance! He's gotta be a better option at the moment than a 'has been' average player and an unknown bottler.

On a plus note, Roberts obviously made a difference in the forst 20mins v Conacht. It looks as though his injury isn't serious, so he should be back soon.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Yeah, hand Dai Flannagan the next game. And now just I'm bias towards Penaltar RFC.

From what I've seen of him, he can control the game better than Sweeny, even if ol' Ceri is a better attacker with ball in hand.

 

[bgrugbyfan]

At this point (and I realize we're only 3 games in), I'm willing to try anyone because I honestly can't see things improving with Sweeney/SNK (and Cooper). Dai's head will be on the chopping block if he can't turn things around soon.